Stun action being a reference point?????

mnorwood

mnorwood

Moon
Silver Member
When considering the myriad of pool skills to be practiced under a variety of conditions I believe it is helpful to hone in on a central skill that once mastered helps mastering other skills faster.

This leads me to this question: How many out there beleive that stun shots with from perhaps 10 -25 degrees from straight in would be just such a skill to concentrate on? Or am I a banging moron?

Does anyone understand this question?
 
mnorwood said:
When considering the myriad of pool skills to be practiced under a variety of conditions I believe it is helpful to hone in on a central skill that once mastered helps mastering other skills faster.

This leads me to this question: How many out there beleive that stun shots with from perhaps 10 -25 degrees from straight in would be just such a skill to concentrate on? Or am I a banging moron?

Does anyone understand this question?
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I have been told by a few very good players that the stun is one of the most important shots in the game.


So, I think it would make sense to try and master it, absolutely.
 
i think its something that should be practiced......when you want to make a ball and barely move the cueball after it makes contact......your choices are to slow roll it (hazardous with bad tables, debris on the table, funky cloth, might roll off) or you shoot your regular stroke medium speed and rely on stun to keep the cueball there. If you watch pro matches you dont see alot of slowrolling, theyd rather let their stroke out and depend on the stun to get them there.
 
mnorwood said:
I believe it is helpful to hone in on a central skill that once mastered helps mastering other skills faster.
Click to expand...

If you're going to pick one skill that's central to billiards, it has to be the pure center-ball stroke, IMO. To master it, tryn setting up the cue ball on the head spot and an object ball dead-center of the table. Concentrating on all your fundamentals, whatever they happen to be to fit your style, try to hit a stop shot so that the object ball goes down to the foot rail and comes back and hits your cue ball. See if you can make the OB hit the CB so full that the CB goes back to the head rail and comes straight back to hit the OB again. If you can do that, you're hitting with perfect tip placement and alignment/aim. This is central to everything you do in billiards, pocket or carom, in my opinion.

-Andrew
 
I think if you're in line you should be shooting a lot of 25 degree stun shots...

mnorwood said:
This leads me to this question: How many out there beleive that stun shots with from perhaps 10 -25 degrees from straight in would be just such a skill to concentrate on? Or am I a banging moron?

Does anyone understand this question?
Click to expand...
 
Once you learn how to keep the cue ball on the tangent line with STUN or STOP SHOT english, you can apply low or high English to take it off the line and control whitey! Just my .02
Purdman
 
Purdman said:
Once you learn how to keep the cue ball on the tangent line with STUN or STOP SHOT english, you can apply low or high English to take it off the line and control whitey! Just my .02
Purdman
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Totally agree with you Purdman.

The original question was the stun shot being used as a "reference point". Absolutely. The reason why a lot of casual players are bangers and will continue to be bangers is because they do not know the effects of the stun shot.

Once you know the 90 degree rule for stun shots, and that a little draw or a little follow will deviate the CB off the 90 degree line, then you can finally build upon your cue control knowledge base.

Whenever I talk to casual players, I always inform them on the 90 degree rule first before anything else. Of course the caveat to this rule is making sure the CB obtains no spin at impact with the OB.
 
mnorwood said:
When considering the myriad of pool skills to be practiced under a variety of conditions I believe it is helpful to hone in on a central skill that once mastered helps mastering other skills faster.

This leads me to this question: How many out there beleive that stun shots with from perhaps 10 -25 degrees from straight in would be just such a skill to concentrate on? Or am I a banging moron?

Does anyone understand this question?
Click to expand...


Well, the most important shot in pool is the stop-shot. It is the central reference for all position play. The "stun-shot" is a variation of the stop-shot. As anyone will tell you, there are many ways one can execute a stop-shot on any given shot. Stun-shots frequently refer to when a lot of speed is used to get the cue-ball to slide into the object ball as opposed to when the shooter applies a slight amount of back-spin to accomplish the same goal. In both instances, the cue-ball is not rotating forward or backward at the moment of contact.
 
jsp said:
Totally agree with you Purdman.

The original question was the stun shot being used as a "reference point". Absolutely. The reason why a lot of casual players are bangers and will continue to be bangers is because they do not know the effects of the stun shot.

Once you know the 90 degree rule for stun shots, and that a little draw or a little follow will deviate the CB off the 90 degree line, then you can finally build upon your cue control knowledge base.

Whenever I talk to casual players, I always inform them on the 90 degree rule first before anything else. Of course the caveat to this rule is making sure the CB obtains no spin at impact with the OB.
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Robert Byrne's Standard tape of Billiards Vol. II places a high degree of importance on understanding the tangent line.

What is the tangent line? To paraprhase, as per Bryne, "The tangent line is the perpendicular bisector between the two contact points between the object ball and the cue ball."

As said, any ball that is sliding (no roll) will, as said, deviate 90 degrees.

With this knowledge in hand, a player can determine, with great accuracy, the path of the cue ball. All the player has to do is determine how hard or soft to hit the cue ball, to determine how far along the tangent line the cue ball will travel.

You can even spin the cue ball along the tanget line, To position the cue ball off the rail, for example. He demonstrates this on tape.

IMO, this shot you mention, called either a Stun, sliding, or Dead Ball shot, or cue ball action, is a great reference shot, and can be useful in determining how cue ball follow or draw would effect the shot.
 
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Yes

learn it, and practice what you get from it. When I figured out the affect of the stun, my position and safety play went way up, especially my ability to lock the cue ball up on an object ball. And that skill alone has saved my butt in more than one match when I was playing poorly and I was way out matched. If you freeze whitey up to a ball, you take away a lot of escape routes.
 
Stun pot angle not a good guide!

mnorwood said:
When considering the myriad of pool skills to be practiced under a variety of conditions I believe it is helpful to hone in on a central skill that once mastered helps mastering other skills faster.

This leads me to this question: How many out there beleive that stun shots with from perhaps 10 -25 degrees from straight in would be just such a skill to concentrate on?
Click to expand...

Actually, I see a big danger in spending a lot of time practicing stun angled shots. The reason being that it will interfere with your natural estimation of the pot angle for shots that you'll need to play more often.

Maximum throw (friction) occurs with slow stun.

A better medium angle to develop a feel for the pot angle is natural roll. Natural roll throws the OB a couple of degrees less than a slow to medium speed stun shot. Its angle is similar to a very high speed stun shot and a medium speed draw shot.

There is slightly more cut angle when playing power follow or draw shots, but it is less than a degree different than the roll angle from the tests I have done.

Also, on angled shots, Inside English creates about the same angle as roll, but Outside English widens the angle up to a few degrees.

This is one reason why players will often adapt to playing stun with a touch of outside english, so that the potting angle feels more natural.

So while stun is a good tool for developing an understanding of the CB position, a player should be aware of the significant effect it has on potting angle. If one trains their mind to see the potting angle for center ball stun shots, they'll have a lot of problems later potting with follow and draw.

BEWARE THE STUN SHOT:eek: :eek: ...:D
 
Colin Colenso said:
Actually, I see a big danger in spending a lot of time practicing stun angled shots.
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Respectfully, I don't see any danger. All of the shots are important, if you want to be anything more than a mediocre player. Sure, natural roll cue ball angles are what every shooter should be looking for.

Understanding the tangent line can be a very useful tool used to break up clusters, play safes, prevent scratches, among other things.

All I am saying is that my game would be an absolute train wreck if I was suddenly unable to determine the tangent line between object and cue balls.
 
Gregg said:
Respectfully, I don't see any danger. All of the shots are important, if you want to be anything more than a mediocre player. Sure, natural roll cue ball angles are what every shooter should be looking for.

Understanding the tangent line can be a very useful tool used to break up clusters, play safes, prevent scratches, among other things.

All I am saying is that my game would be an absolute train wreck if I was suddenly unable to determine the tangent line between object and cue balls.
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Hi Gregg,
I don't mean that people should avoid the stun shot. It is very practical. Just that, if it becomes one's focus it can tend to make a player over cut a lot of shots played with roll, top or draw or even just stun at high speed.

I believe a lot have this problem but never realize the cause.

So, practice the stun shot, but consider playing it with a touch of OE, so that the pot angle is the same as if potting at natural roll speed.

My point is purely about potting angle perception, and how that relates to how the CB is spinning. A player needs to integrate this into their positional training and know how by adjusting one, the other is affected.

I would advise most players to pot a lot of shots with roll, when getting their eyes familiar with the angles. Then they have minimal adjustments required when playing with speed, top, bottom and Inside English. Also, they should learn to adjust for stun by either aiming to overcut, or learning to play with just the right amount of Outside English.

It probably sounds over complex, but I believe knowing this can save a player hundreds of hours of confusion and frustration.

I used to play a lot of medium speed stun shots to find my alignment and aim, but had a lot of trouble on near full to 1/2 ball angle shots when I played top or draw. I learned that throw was the cause of these problems.
 
Colin Colenso said:
Hi Gregg,
I don't mean that people should avoid the stun shot. It is very practical. Just that, if it becomes one's focus it can tend to make a player over cut a lot of shots played with roll, top or draw or even just stun at high speed.

I believe a lot have this problem but never realize the cause.

So, practice the stun shot, but consider playing it with a touch of OE, so that the pot angle is the same as if potting at natural roll speed.

My point is purely about potting angle perception, and how that relates to how the CB is spinning. A player needs to integrate this into their positional training and know how by adjusting one, the other is affected.

I would advise most players to pot a lot of shots with roll, when getting their eyes familiar with the angles. Then they have minimal adjustments required when playing with speed, top, bottom and Inside English. Also, they should learn to adjust for stun by either aiming to overcut, or learning to play with just the right amount of Outside English.

It probably sounds over complex, but I believe knowing this can save a player hundreds of hours of confusion and frustration.

I used to play a lot of medium speed stun shots to find my alignment and aim, but had a lot of trouble on near full to 1/2 ball angle shots when I played top or draw. I learned that throw was the cause of these problems.
Click to expand...

No doubt. I have a much easier time judging the angle off a stuned cue ball than a rolling ball, even if/when a rolling ball would be the correct, higher percentage shot to take.
 
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