Classy post, Greg. As always, it was great seeing you up there.
Super Billiards Ban from Playing!
- Thread starter ga9ball
- Start date
Hi Greg,
I am sorry I have not been able to reply sooner. My dad, as you may be aware, rarely gets online - I typically post answers for him here when needed. Sometimes I consult with him first, many times I know how to answer without consult.
I'm sorry this situation went down like this, and I know you're clearly upset over it. We do our best to monitor the fields, but it is a daunting task. This is why we post the names of ineligible players (for the current year) on our website. It is possible that sometimes some names slip through. We are not perfect. However, that does not mean we can allow others to knowingly slip through. If a name is brought to our attention, we must do something about this.
Whether or not you feel that event is worthy of "defining" a pro-level player - it is one we selected, and it is on our website. It was there when you signed up, it was there before you signed up, and it's still there.
For the record, here are the players that placed above you in this event, which you do not feel is worthy of inclusion:
1st – Earl Strickland
2nd – Jeremey Sossei
3rd – Dany Normandin
4th – Brandon Shuff
5th/6th – Joe Dupuis
5th/6th – Dennis Hatch
7th/8th – Oscar Dominguez
7th/8th – Karen Corr
9th/12th – Cleiton Rocha
9th/12th – Mike DeChaine
9th/12th – Dave Fernandez
9th/12th – Thorsten Hohmann
13th/16th – Ron Cosanzio
13th/16th – Chris Bartram
13th/16th – Larry Nevel
13th/16th – Jason Klatt
I think it's more than fair to say there are some notable names in this list.
I was not there when our TD informed you of this removal. She explained you were quite upset, understandably so. I was told that you were offered a spot in the Pro-Am instead, and you accepted (perhaps what I was told is wrong?)
When the Pro-Am started, your opponent was waiting for you to arrive, so someone found you to let you know that you were in danger of forfeit - and you once again got angry. So, we simply removed your name from the bracket, paid your entry money into the pool, and gave your opponent a bye essentially. You didn't spend or lose any money for that. Later that night, you were still mad about it and were yelling at my dad at the hotel about it. I was the person he was on the phone with (and hung up on) when you confronted him about it. I could hear you through the phone.
In closing - our system is not perfect, no. However, it is an attempt to draw lines that can be followed. This does not mean you're banned forever. If you do not place in those events again, then you would be eligible to play in 2015. From the sounds of it, you may not want to, and I am sorry to hear that.
Yes, we should have tried to let you know sooner. Your entry came in on Feb 27th - about 2 weeks before the Expo. Since we only update the list on weekends, you weren't even displayed on the list until March 1 or 2nd. Not a lot of time to be noticed. We publish the rules online so players can check them out in advance, before making travel plans. Slipping through the screen does not mean we should forget the rules and let someone play - that wouldn't be fair to others. In the event of other names that should be ineligible - if someone brings it to our attention, we investigate...
There are simply too many players out there for us to "just know" every one of them. We try our best, and we came up with some guidelines to help the process. They are posted in plain view for all to read.
I hope this helps explain our side of this a little bit. You are welcome to call my dad and discuss this further with him if you like. In fact, anyone can do so. You can reach him at (609)652-6116.
If anyone has any suggestions on a better way to determine who qualifies as an amateur vs pro, I'm open to hear them.
SBE Ban
Hi Greg,
I am sorry I have not been able to reply sooner. My dad, as you may be aware, rarely gets online - I typically post answers for him here when needed. Sometimes I consult with him first, many times I know how to answer without consult.
I'm sorry this situation went down like this, and I know you're clearly upset over it. We do our best to monitor the fields, but it is a daunting task. This is why we post the names of ineligible players (for the current year) on our website. It is possible that sometimes some names slip through. We are not perfect. However, that does not mean we can allow others to knowingly slip through. If a name is brought to our attention, we must do something about this.
Whether or not you feel that event is worthy of "defining" a pro-level player - it is one we selected, and it is on our website. It was there when you signed up, it was there before you signed up, and it's still there.
For the record, here are the players that placed above you in this event, which you do not feel is worthy of inclusion:
1st – Earl Strickland
2nd – Jeremey Sossei
3rd – Dany Normandin
4th – Brandon Shuff
5th/6th – Joe Dupuis
5th/6th – Dennis Hatch
7th/8th – Oscar Dominguez
7th/8th – Karen Corr
9th/12th – Cleiton Rocha
9th/12th – Mike DeChaine
9th/12th – Dave Fernandez
9th/12th – Thorsten Hohmann
13th/16th – Ron Cosanzio
13th/16th – Chris Bartram
13th/16th – Larry Nevel
13th/16th – Jason Klatt
I think it's more than fair to say there are some notable names in this list.
I was not there when our TD informed you of this removal. She explained you were quite upset, understandably so. I was told that you were offered a spot in the Pro-Am instead, and you accepted (perhaps what I was told is wrong?)
When the Pro-Am started, your opponent was waiting for you to arrive, so someone found you to let you know that you were in danger of forfeit - and you once again got angry. So, we simply removed your name from the bracket, paid your entry money into the pool, and gave your opponent a bye essentially. You didn't spend or lose any money for that. Later that night, you were still mad about it and were yelling at my dad at the hotel about it. I was the person he was on the phone with (and hung up on) when you confronted him about it. I could hear you through the phone.
In closing - our system is not perfect, no. However, it is an attempt to draw lines that can be followed. This does not mean you're banned forever. If you do not place in those events again, then you would be eligible to play in 2015. From the sounds of it, you may not want to, and I am sorry to hear that.
Yes, we should have tried to let you know sooner. Your entry came in on Feb 27th - about 2 weeks before the Expo. Since we only update the list on weekends, you weren't even displayed on the list until March 1 or 2nd. Not a lot of time to be noticed. We publish the rules online so players can check them out in advance, before making travel plans. Slipping through the screen does not mean we should forget the rules and let someone play - that wouldn't be fair to others. In the event of other names that should be ineligible - if someone brings it to our attention, we investigate...
There are simply too many players out there for us to "just know" every one of them. We try our best, and we came up with some guidelines to help the process. They are posted in plain view for all to read.
I hope this helps explain our side of this a little bit. You are welcome to call my dad and discuss this further with him if you like. In fact, anyone can do so. You can reach him at (609)652-6116.
If anyone has any suggestions on a better way to determine who qualifies as an amateur vs pro, I'm open to hear them.
Allen Hopkins Jr.
___________________________________________
SUPER BILLIARDS EXPO 2014
March 13-16th, 2014
at the
NJ Convention & Expo Center
Edison, NJ
www.SuperBilliardsExpo.com
follow SBX on Facebook
___________________________________________
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Hi Allen Jr.
As I stated in my thread, this is not a post to bash you, your Dad, or SBE staff. I have been attending this event for years, as a player, as well as collector/buyer of cues!
I have known your father for many years, as a player and as someone l personally looked up to in the Pool World!
Please ask your Dad the score of our Personal match at Turning Stone one year, l think he beat me 9-2 rather quickly.
I have never said that l am not an accomplished player, I would hope after all these years l should be a decent player, but I have never been an elite player/ Pro level.
I also am not looking to bring other names into this post, " Who Else Played " because l do not care to be judge on who plays, that is your job as Owners of the SBE.
What I do feel is Turning Stone Joss Event even though great players play in it, is a field of 128 players, with 85-90 of them being regular Joss Tour members who come for the event to support OUR TOUR, and have the chance to play in luxury.
Mike Zuglan has run it perfect, Joss Cues a major sponsor among others, and Diamond has also been there to supply the finest equipment. We as members pay a $150 discounted rate since we pay a yearly dues, and it is a chance to feel the exhilaration that a real player must feel on a regular basis.
Some players in the Northeast avoid Turning Stone for this same reason that l was considered ineligible for fear of maybe getting a so called easy bracket, and cashing, causing them to lose a status on other tours as well as SBE!
Like l posted, I have made Turning Stone a Family event for years, with not only my Wife, and 2 Son's, but many friends who come to PARTY. We eat good, get a little loud, gamble just like we do every year.
So it looks like you want me to decide between the 2 events, or at least make sure l do not try hard enough to cash!
If l thought for an instance that l was too advanced for the Senior Amateur at SBE, I would never sign up! I am not looking to beat up on lesser players, and I have Never Won any event at SBE in all the years entered.
You simply need to have a common sense effort in the Criteria you and your Dad have for the Event.
The way you state it, someone could sit out a year of pool, never to place high anywhere, and come back after a Hiatus and be allowed to play, as you have said in my case! You said l can play again if I do not cash before 2015 SBE.
Does that mean that any top pro that does not cash this year is Eligible?
If you study the caliber of players in all 5 events that you use as criteria, it is plain as day that Turning Stone is far less superior. This is my only problem!
I paid two years ago in the Senior Amateur and was on the list only to have the same thing happen to me. Your Dad an myself discussed this, and he agreed to remove Turning Stone from the list. I had driven there with Family, hotels, meals, gas, tolls etc. only to be denied. Your Dad removed TS from the criteria, and l played in the Senior Amateur the next year 2012.
This is the reason why I never even bothered to look at who is eligible this year. Do you really think that l am DISHONEST, and would try and SNEAK in. With all the people l know in the pool world, it is obvious that someone would report me as they did!!!! As l stated in my original post, me and your Dad spoke the morning before, and even though he is a busy man, l would think something would have been said. With absolute honesty l can tell you l never looked at this Ineligible List until l saw it in this thread, and for a brief instance at the Tournament desk while being disqualified.
As for the Pro Am, your staff came running up to tell me my match in the Pro Am was being called the following evening. I never signed up for this event ever in my life, including this year! Also I have never not been in my seat for a tournament at the start of my match in all my years, so it is obvious I was not entered in this event. When I was told by staff at the tournament desk I was disqualified, staff suggested l play in the Pro Am. This is not an event for me!
I was leaving to have dinner at the Sheraton and your Dad said to me, why didn't you show up for the Pro Am? Why should I have shown up? I never paid to be in this event!!!!
I also think their was a Hidden Agenda here hoping l would play, and possibly win a match and then you could feel justified!
Something stinks here, and this subject is WAY OFF from what we are trying to correct!
Either way people see this situation - For or Against, something needs to be changed. Many others have expressed this to me personally. If not the regional tours will fade with less players competing.
Thank you for your consideration in this matter!
Greg Antonakos
Hi Greg,
I am sorry I have not been able to reply sooner. My dad, as you may be aware, rarely gets online - I typically post answers for him here when needed. Sometimes I consult with him first, many times I know how to answer without consult.
I'm sorry this situation went down like this, and I know you're clearly upset over it. We do our best to monitor the fields, but it is a daunting task. This is why we post the names of ineligible players (for the current year) on our website. It is possible that sometimes some names slip through. We are not perfect. However, that does not mean we can allow others to knowingly slip through. If a name is brought to our attention, we must do something about this.
Whether or not you feel that event is worthy of "defining" a pro-level player - it is one we selected, and it is on our website. It was there when you signed up, it was there before you signed up, and it's still there.
For the record, here are the players that placed above you in this event, which you do not feel is worthy of inclusion:
1st – Earl Strickland
2nd – Jeremey Sossei
3rd – Dany Normandin
4th – Brandon Shuff
5th/6th – Joe Dupuis
5th/6th – Dennis Hatch
7th/8th – Oscar Dominguez
7th/8th – Karen Corr
9th/12th – Cleiton Rocha
9th/12th – Mike DeChaine
9th/12th – Dave Fernandez
9th/12th – Thorsten Hohmann
13th/16th – Ron Cosanzio
13th/16th – Chris Bartram
13th/16th – Larry Nevel
13th/16th – Jason Klatt
I think it's more than fair to say there are some notable names in this list.
I was not there when our TD informed you of this removal. She explained you were quite upset, understandably so. I was told that you were offered a spot in the Pro-Am instead, and you accepted (perhaps what I was told is wrong?)
When the Pro-Am started, your opponent was waiting for you to arrive, so someone found you to let you know that you were in danger of forfeit - and you once again got angry. So, we simply removed your name from the bracket, paid your entry money into the pool, and gave your opponent a bye essentially. You didn't spend or lose any money for that. Later that night, you were still mad about it and were yelling at my dad at the hotel about it. I was the person he was on the phone with (and hung up on) when you confronted him about it. I could hear you through the phone.
In closing - our system is not perfect, no. However, it is an attempt to draw lines that can be followed. This does not mean you're banned forever. If you do not place in those events again, then you would be eligible to play in 2015. From the sounds of it, you may not want to, and I am sorry to hear that.
Yes, we should have tried to let you know sooner. Your entry came in on Feb 27th - about 2 weeks before the Expo. Since we only update the list on weekends, you weren't even displayed on the list until March 1 or 2nd. Not a lot of time to be noticed. We publish the rules online so players can check them out in advance, before making travel plans. Slipping through the screen does not mean we should forget the rules and let someone play - that wouldn't be fair to others. In the event of other names that should be ineligible - if someone brings it to our attention, we investigate...
There are simply too many players out there for us to "just know" every one of them. We try our best, and we came up with some guidelines to help the process. They are posted in plain view for all to read.
I hope this helps explain our side of this a little bit. You are welcome to call my dad and discuss this further with him if you like. In fact, anyone can do so. You can reach him at (609)652-6116.
If anyone has any suggestions on a better way to determine who qualifies as an amateur vs pro, I'm open to hear them.
Allen Hopkins Jr.
___________________________________________
SUPER BILLIARDS EXPO 2014
March 13-16th, 2014
at the
NJ Convention & Expo Center
Edison, NJ
www.SuperBilliardsExpo.com
follow SBX on Facebook
___________________________________________
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Hi Allen Jr.
As I stated in my thread, this is not a post to bash you, your Dad, or SBE staff. I have been attending this event for years, as a player, as well as collector/buyer of cues!
I have known your father for many years, as a player and as someone l personally looked up to in the Pool World!
Please ask your Dad the score of our Personal match at Turning Stone one year, l think he beat me 9-2 rather quickly.
I have never said that l am not an accomplished player, I would hope after all these years l should be a decent player, but I have never been an elite player/ Pro level.
I also am not looking to bring other names into this post, " Who Else Played " because l do not care to be judge on who plays, that is your job as Owners of the SBE.
What I do feel is Turning Stone Joss Event even though great players play in it, is a field of 128 players, with 85-90 of them being regular Joss Tour members who come for the event to support OUR TOUR, and have the chance to play in luxury.
Mike Zuglan has run it perfect, Joss Cues a major sponsor among others, and Diamond has also been there to supply the finest equipment. We as members pay a $150 discounted rate since we pay a yearly dues, and it is a chance to feel the exhilaration that a real player must feel on a regular basis.
Some players in the Northeast avoid Turning Stone for this same reason that l was considered ineligible for fear of maybe getting a so called easy bracket, and cashing, causing them to lose a status on other tours as well as SBE!
Like l posted, I have made Turning Stone a Family event for years, with not only my Wife, and 2 Son's, but many friends who come to PARTY. We eat good, get a little loud, gamble just like we do every year.
So it looks like you want me to decide between the 2 events, or at least make sure l do not try hard enough to cash!
If l thought for an instance that l was too advanced for the Senior Amateur at SBE, I would never sign up! I am not looking to beat up on lesser players, and I have Never Won any event at SBE in all the years entered.
You simply need to have a common sense effort in the Criteria you and your Dad have for the Event.
The way you state it, someone could sit out a year of pool, never to place high anywhere, and come back after a Hiatus and be allowed to play, as you have said in my case! You said l can play again if I do not cash before 2015 SBE.
Does that mean that any top pro that does not cash this year is Eligible?
If you study the caliber of players in all 5 events that you use as criteria, it is plain as day that Turning Stone is far less superior. This is my only problem!
I paid two years ago in the Senior Amateur and was on the list only to have the same thing happen to me. Your Dad an myself discussed this, and he agreed to remove Turning Stone from the list. I had driven there with Family, hotels, meals, gas, tolls etc. only to be denied. Your Dad removed TS from the criteria, and l played in the Senior Amateur the next year 2012.
This is the reason why I never even bothered to look at who is eligible this year. Do you really think that l am DISHONEST, and would try and SNEAK in. With all the people l know in the pool world, it is obvious that someone would report me as they did!!!! As l stated in my original post, me and your Dad spoke the morning before, and even though he is a busy man, l would think something would have been said. With absolute honesty l can tell you l never looked at this Ineligible List until l saw it in this thread, and for a brief instance at the Tournament desk while being disqualified.
As for the Pro Am, your staff came running up to tell me my match in the Pro Am was being called the following evening. I never signed up for this event ever in my life, including this year! Also I have never not been in my seat for a tournament at the start of my match in all my years, so it is obvious I was not entered in this event. When I was told by staff at the tournament desk I was disqualified, staff suggested l play in the Pro Am. This is not an event for me!
I was leaving to have dinner at the Sheraton and your Dad said to me, why didn't you show up for the Pro Am? Why should I have shown up? I never paid to be in this event!!!!
I also think their was a Hidden Agenda here hoping l would play, and possibly win a match and then you could feel justified!
Something stinks here, and this subject is WAY OFF from what we are trying to correct!
Either way people see this situation - For or Against, something needs to be changed. Many others have expressed this to me personally. If not the regional tours will fade with less players competing.
Thank you for your consideration in this matter!
Greg Antonakos
Last edited:
Hi Greg,
Thanks for your detailed reply. I do not have time to write a lengthy response at the moment, but I wanted to address something real quick.
In no way at all do we feel as though you were trying to "sneak in". And the Pro-Am situation was in no way intended to make you look bad or laced with devious intent. Somehow the TD got the impression that you accepted her suggestion to make sure you received a spot in that event, so we kept you in mind when an opening opened up and got you in the event. We thought you wanted to play in it. When you made it clear you did not, we simply removed you.
We know the system is not perfect. Unfortunately, if a name is on that list, we have to try and keep them out of events for the year. We cannot explain to everyone in the event that brings it up (and trust me, there are many) that "It's OK, player "X" is really just an amateur who got a good draw and placed high in that event". Conversely, there are certain big names that can be excluded whether or not they cashed in these events.
Of course we support and encourage amateur players. We do not like having to remove or block players. Unfortunately, as this thread proves, some type of action must be taken. Our guidelines are just that - and they provide something concrete and in writing that is indisputable.
Many players in our event aren't AZ members, they don't follow tours, and wouldn't know the difference between a "known" pro and a "lucky" amateur. The list of names gives them something to review, something concrete rather than "he said / she said" explanations regarding players.
Again, I'm sorry this had to happen to you. In no way was this anything personal whatsoever, nor do we think you had any ill intent when you signed up. Thanks to this discussion, I've got some ideas to improve our screening process in the future.
Allen
(This was lengthier than I originally intended -- will still try and return to address other concerns soon)