SVB success outside of America

R

Raph Cleary

Active member
A lot of people in pool community have commented on Shane's lack of success outside of the U.S.

* World Nine-ball Championship (2022)- held in England.

* Euro Tour Leende Open (2018) held in the Netherlands.

* World Pool Masters (2014, 2015) held in England.

* Pool Ocho Open (2011) held in Nicaragua.

* Ultimate 10-Ball Championship (2010) held in Aruba.

* World Cup of Pool (2008) held in the Netherlands.
 
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First, including the Kremlin Cup, which typically has fields no stronger than those found at a Euro-tour event, in this thread is ridiculous, as is including Euro-tour play. A case can be made for inclusion of the World Pool Masters, which Shane has won, but I'd omit it as it is a small field invitational event. The scotch double World Cup of Pool is even less relevant. No idea why you brought up Mosconi, but that's where Shane has struggled most mightily. None of these events rate among pool's major titles.

The fact that Shane has outachieved other Americans overseas is of no import. He has, however, found major titles very hard to come by overseas, and this is in sharp contrast to some other current stars of the game like Orcullo, Souquet, Ouschan, Filler, Biado, Hohmann, Pagulayan, Immonen and Feijen, who have always managed to win major titles all around the world. When you're Shane Van Boening, it's about winning titles and not much else.

Yes, Shane has medaled at the China Open, the All-Japan, and had two silvers at the World 9-ball, but until his win at this year's WPC, even he'd have told you that his results were very disappointing overseas for someone who has consistently rated among the world's top three players for the last fifteen years.

There's no question that Shane had a very tough go of it in overseas majors, but he broke through this year at the WPC and that's a very big deal. I think he'll win another overseas major soon enough.
 
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raphcleary said:
Shane has always been criticized for his success in the U.S. compared to overseas. Although if you compare Shane's success outside of the U.S. compared to other American players I feel this complaint is not justified.

Success-

World Nine-ball Championship-
Shane is the only America player to make it the finals on 3 occasions when the event was held overseas, and one of the few Americans to win the event overseas alongside Earl Strickland, Johnny Archer and Nick Varner.

WPA World Nine-ball Championship - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

World Cup of Pool-
Shane won the World Cup of Pool held in the Netherlands alongside Rodney Morris, the only American doubles team to win the event. Shane is also the only American player to make it to the finals on 2 occasions other that Rodney Morris.

World Cup of Pool - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

World Pool Masters-
Shane is the only American player to win the event overseas on 2 occasions and the only American to win the event other than Earl Strickland. Shane is also the only American player to make it the the finals on 4 occasions.

World Pool Masters - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

Euro Tour-
Shane is the only American player to win the event other that Mike Sigel and Johnny Archer.

List of Euro Tour tournaments - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

China Open 9-Ball Championship-
Shane is the only American player to reach the Semi finals of the event.

China 9-Ball Open - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

Kremlin Cup-
Shane is the only American player to reach the Semi finals of the event other that Tyler Styer who won the event.

Kremlin Cup (pool) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

Little Success-

All Japan Championship & Japan Open-
Several Americans have won the event with the likes Corey Deuel, Jim Rempe, Allen Hopkins, Lou Butera, Joe Balsis and Many Americans have made it to the finals, Shane has never reached the finals of either of the events.

All Japan Championship (pool) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

Mosconi Cup-
you could excuse this one because it's a team event but I added it anyway. 2 out of the 3 Mosconi Cup Wins for Shane have been in the U.S., compared to Johnny Archer and Earl Strickland that Won the Majority of there team win's overseas, There could be an argument that the European competition wasn't as tough as the modern European players.
en.wikipedia.org

Mosconi Cup - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org


What do you think?
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I understand what you're trying to point out, but at the same time, when you use the word ONLY then follow that with the others who've done the same thing, it kind of loses its meaning.

Kind of like saying....,

SVB is the ONLY American player to have won the US Open 9B event 5 TIMES in the 40+ years its been held............ OTHER than Earl Strickland, who has also won it 5 times as well!
 
realkingcobra said:
I understand what you're trying to point out, but at the same time, when you use the word ONLY then follow that with the others who've done the same thing, it kind of loses its meaning.

Kind of like saying....,

SVB is the ONLY American player to have won the US Open 9B event 5 TIMES in the 40+ years its been held............ OTHER than Earl Strickland, who has also won it 5 times as well!
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your right, I corrected it!!!
 
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sjm said:
First, including the Kremlin Cup, which typically has fields no stronger than those found at a Euro-tour event, in this thread is ridiculous, as is including Euro-tour play. A case can be made for inclusion of the World Pool Masters, which Shane has won, but I'd omit it as it is a small field invitational event. The scotch double World Cup of Pool is even less relevant. No idea why you brought up Mosconi, but that's where Shane has struggled most mightily. None of these events rate among pool's major titles.

The fact that Shane has outachieved other Americans overseas is of no import. He has, however, found major titles very hard to come by overseas, and this is in sharp contrast to some other current stars of the game like Orcullo, Souquet, Ouschan, Filler, Biado, Hohmann, Pagulayan and Feijen, who have always managed to win major titles all around the world. When you're Shane Van Boening, it's about winning titles and not much else.

Yes, Shane has medaled at the China Open, the All-Japan, and had two silvers at the World 9-ball, but until his win at this year's WPC, even he'd have told you that his results were very disappointing overseas for someone who has consistently rated among the world's top three players for the last fifteen years.

There's no question that Shane had a very tough go of it in overseas majors, but he broke through this year at the WPC and that's a very big deal. I think he'll win another overseas major soon enough.
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Agreed, your right, I wasn't going for Major titles I was just going for any overseas titles, I agree about the majors! I just added all the overseas titles I could think off that's all. I couldn't think off any other titles that others countries can play in, not like the European Pool Championships, German Pool Championships, Russian Pool Championship Etc. where American players can not compete in. On the contrary I think It is important to point out Shane's success outside of the States although I still don't believe he is the most successful American player overseas, I would have to give that to Jim Rempe who has won more international titles than any other American player.
 
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sjm said:
First, including the Kremlin Cup, which typically has fields no stronger than those found at a Euro-tour event, in this thread is ridiculous, as is including Euro-tour play. A case can be made for inclusion of the World Pool Masters, which Shane has won, but I'd omit it as it is a small field invitational event. The scotch double World Cup of Pool is even less relevant. No idea why you brought up Mosconi, but that's where Shane has struggled most mightily. None of these events rate among pool's major titles.

The fact that Shane has outachieved other Americans overseas is of no import. He has, however, found major titles very hard to come by overseas, and this is in sharp contrast to some other current stars of the game like Orcullo, Souquet, Ouschan, Filler, Biado, Hohmann, Pagulayan and Feijen, who have always managed to win major titles all around the world. When you're Shane Van Boening, it's about winning titles and not much else.

Yes, Shane has medaled at the China Open, the All-Japan, and had two silvers at the World 9-ball, but until his win at this year's WPC, even he'd have told you that his results were very disappointing overseas for someone who has consistently rated among the world's top three players for the last fifteen years.

There's no question that Shane had a very tough go of it in overseas majors, but he broke through this year at the WPC and that's a very big deal. I think he'll win another overseas major soon enough.
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Maybe what I'm getting at is a lot of fans and pundits really stick it to Shane about his international success but he is one of the few American's that actually travels to these events in Europe, China, Japan, Russia Etc. that's all I'm trying to say really. As you pointed out European and Filipino players have had success worldwide. By I guess it's difficult when the mecca of pool is where you live, but I believe that's changing too, here in Europe there has been a huge boom in the popularity of billiards in the last 15 years.
 
raphcleary said:
Maybe what I'm getting at is a lot of fans and pundits really stick it to Shane about his international success but he is one of the few American's that actually travels to these events in Europe, China, Japan, Russia Etc. that's all I'm trying to say really. As you pointed out European and Filipino players have had success worldwide. By I guess it's difficult when the mecca of pool is where you live, but I believe that's changing too, here in Europe there has been a huge boom in the popularity of billiards in the last 15 years.
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Yes, very well said! Americans have, far too often, shied away from participating in the premier overseas events in recent years, and as Jay Helfert has so often noted, this has reduced their competitive pedigrees.

In contrast, Shane has played the full international schedule for most of his career, and that's praiseworthy indeed.
 
sjm said:
Yes, very well said! Americans have, far too often, shied away from participating in the premier overseas events in recent years, and as Jay Helfert has so often noted, this has reduced their competitive pedigrees.

In contrast, Shane has played the full international schedule for most of his career, and that's praiseworthy indeed.
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Yea it's funny, I'm European but always root for the USA! 😉
 
I don't see where Cleary was trying to disrespect Shane at all... I watch mostly Asian pool and no one from USA has done well there... Thats even after many hours of practice on the Joy tables... Only Potts and Hendry from EU that I know of have... Guy ... Shane can still represent the USA to the world...
 
raphcleary said:
Maybe what I'm getting at is a lot of fans and pundits really stick it to Shane about his international success but he is one of the few American's that actually travels to these events in Europe, China, Japan, Russia Etc. that's all I'm trying to say really. As you pointed out European and Filipino players have had success worldwide. By I guess it's difficult when the mecca of pool is where you live, but I believe that's changing too, here in Europe there has been a huge boom in the popularity of billiards in the last 15 years.
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I’m American and travelled to all those places and never won anything 😂😂 SVB has done well.
 
Guy Manges said:
I don't see where Cleary was trying to disrespect Shane at all... I watch mostly Asian pool and no one from USA has done well there... Thats even after many hours of practice on the Joy tables... Only Potts and Hendry from EU that I know of have... Guy ... Shane can still represent the USA to the world...
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Nothing but respect for Shane from me, Shane has literally carried the U.S on his back for the last 15 Years! and that's not an understatement. 😎
 
raphcleary said:
Nothing but respect for Shane from me, Shane has literally carried the U.S on his back for the last 15 Years! and that's not an understatement. 😎
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I met him 15 years ago. And yes you are correct. He’s a great guy in addition to the top American player as well. I’ve been lucky to be a fly on the wall over the years watching him do his thing. He’s a winner💪💪
 
Super player and a good guy. I wounder how good he would play if there was three or four players in the USA that could play close to his speed, to push him every day like all the other players around the world deal with in their countries?

He can get played every day in One Pocket by lots of guys, but if that were the case in 9 Ball and 10 Ball I think he might find another gear!
 
King T said:
Super player and a good guy. I wounder how good he would play if there was three or four players in the USA that could play close to his speed, to push him every day like all the other players around the world deal with in their countries?

He can get played every day in One Pocket by lots of guys, but if that were the case in 9 Ball and 10 Ball I think he might find another gear!
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Rest assured, Shane was pushed plenty hard while on US soil. Remember, Appleton, Immonen, Hohmann and Shaw all lived in the US during Shane's prime and he had to beat them, not to mention guys like Dechaine, Bergman, Woodward, Pagulayan, Orcullo and Souquet whenever an important nine/ten ball title was up for grabs in America. Add that to his TAR matches and his international schedule and Shane was tested to the max on countless occasions during his prime.
 
I hate these threads because it brings the Shane and America haters out of the woodwork. Shane could win every world championship for the next 5 years and the same people would still come up with a reason he isn't the best player.

Jaden
 
sjm said:
Rest assured, Shane was pushed plenty hard while on US soil. Remember, Appleton, Immonen, Hohmann and Shaw all lived in the US during Shane's prime and he had to beat them, not to mention guys like Dechaine, Bergman, Woodward, Pagulayan, Orcullo and Souquet whenever an important nine/ten ball title was up for grabs in America. Add that to his TAR matches and his international schedule and Shane was tested to the max on countless occasions during his prime.
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Well what I mean is that all of the guys from the other countries still have guys that can push them every day and many are good friends that have played each other for year whereas none of the guys you mentioned, Bergman, Dechaine, Woodward, Immonen, Appleton or Souquet can play close to Shane anymore and its been years since they could.
 
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