Swaying during stroke

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nrhoades

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Last night I attached heavy ankle weights to my ankles and knees, and put on a weight vest, to help detect a suspected bad habit of swaying my body slightly during my stroke. The inertial change of my body made it obvious that I was. BOY is it hard to keep my body still with this bad habit!... though when I do by concentrating very hard, the cue-ball goes exactly where I want it to.

When I was learning how to play, another player came up to me and told me to sway my body during follow through to get more action. I don't know if he was messing with me, but he was on an opposing team.

Anyway, I think it's kept me plateaued for three years (little improvement). Is this a major fundamental discovery I've made? How frustrating that a little bad advice caused me so many problems.
 
nrhoades...Swaying at all while you stroke the CB is a VERY bad habit. That guy who told you that didn't know what he was talking about. The only part of your body that should move is your forearm...from the elbow down! By moving other parts of your body you are only complicating the swing, and making it more difficult to accurately deliver the cuetip to the CB.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
 
nrhoades said:
I don't know if he was messing with me, but he was on an opposing team.
Click to expand...

:D

I used to play a guy whose arm used to shake like leaf - it was so bad you'd feel sorry for him, and think he'd never pot a ball. Then he'd clear the table, every single time.
 
Sounds like you have some balance issues. I had the same problem, all I can tell you is to experiment with different stances & turning your body into the shot in various ways until you can get it closer to a point where you don't move. It can be either planting your feet prior to the shot and turning your body into position, or it can mean stepping out with your lead foot before the shot. I'm sure with enough experimentation, you will figure it out.
 
TheThaiger said:
:D

I used to play a guy whose arm used to shake like leaf - it was so bad you'd feel sorry for him, and think he'd never pot a ball. Then he'd clear the table, every single time.
Click to expand...

I know a few guys like that, some are old, others do a lot of physical labor, also one or two have had alcohol and drug issues.
It is usually their hand, but everything shakes.
However, at the moment they commit to the shot and the motion starts they don't shake.
And yes it doesn’t stop them for a minute like you say.
 
nrhoades said:
Last night I attached heavy ankle weights to my ankles and knees, and put on a weight vest, to help detect a suspected bad habit of swaying my body slightly during my stroke. The inertial change of my body made it obvious that I was. BOY is it hard to keep my body still with this bad habit!... though when I do by concentrating very hard, the cue-ball goes exactly where I want it to.

When I was learning how to play, another player came up to me and told me to sway my body during follow through to get more action. I don't know if he was messing with me, but he was on an opposing team.

Anyway, I think it's kept me plateaued for three years (little improvement). Is this a major fundamental discovery I've made? How frustrating that a little bad advice caused me so many problems.
Click to expand...

It takes approximately 30 days to develop a new habit. That means working on your new non-swaying self 30 consecutive days.

And yes, you've rediscovered something very important.

I've had at least 50 Epiphanies in my pool life and now, I seem to be having the same ones over and over.


Good luck.
 
Earl has been doing this for years.

Knee weights
Ankle weights
Weights around his hips
Bee Keepers hat....



nrhoades said:
Last night I attached heavy ankle weights to my ankles and knees, and put on a weight vest, to help detect a suspected bad habit of swaying my body slightly during my stroke. The inertial change of my body made it obvious that I was. BOY is it hard to keep my body still with this bad habit!... though when I do by concentrating very hard, the cue-ball goes exactly where I want it to.

When I was learning how to play, another player came up to me and told me to sway my body during follow through to get more action. I don't know if he was messing with me, but he was on an opposing team.

Anyway, I think it's kept me plateaued for three years (little improvement). Is this a major fundamental discovery I've made? How frustrating that a little bad advice caused me so many problems.
Click to expand...
 
nrhoades said:
When I was learning how to play, another player came up to me and told me to sway my body during follow through to get more action. I don't know if he was messing with me, but he was on an opposing team.
Click to expand...

Are you swaying side to side or front to back? If you sway back and then forward with your stroke, think of it more as a shift in body weight than swaying your upper body, yes you get more action on the shot. If you want more action on the shot. And if throwing off the line of your shot still gives you the action you wanted. I shift my weight when I break, usually, but for power draws and good follow I just count on my stroke.

As far as the other thing, you may be swaying because your body can't handle the stance you're in. I bend both knees and bend over at the waist so my hips are below table height and my chin is just above the table, which takes a boatload of control not to sway. Check to see if your weight is centered on your feet, or whether you're back on your heels or forward on your toes. Make sure your weight is centered left-to-right, as well. Granted, not every position lets you use your perfect stance, but you may as well get perfect when you can.

If all else fails, try to use the table to anchor yourself better. Lean your hips into the table when you can, set your bridge hand down with your elbow on the table, make as many points of contact with the table as you can to steady yourself. That's if fixing your stance (or starting up a good core workout) doesn't help.

Good luck!
 
walrus_3d...You do not "get more action" on the CB putting body weight into your stroke. It only makes it more difficult to be accurate. Simple motion = greater accuracy.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

walrus_3d said:
If you sway back and then forward with your stroke, think of it more as a shift in body weight than swaying your upper body, yes you get more action on the shot. If you want more action on the shot. And if throwing off the line of your shot still gives you the action you wanted. I shift my weight when I break, usually, but for power draws and good follow I just count on my stroke.

Good luck!
Click to expand...
 
walrus_3d said:
Are you swaying side to side or front to back? If you sway back and then forward with your stroke, think of it more as a shift in body weight than swaying your upper body, yes you get more action on the shot. If you want more action on the shot. And if throwing off the line of your shot still gives you the action you wanted. I shift my weight when I break, usually, but for power draws and good follow I just count on my stroke.

As far as the other thing, you may be swaying because your body can't handle the stance you're in. I bend both knees and bend over at the waist so my hips are below table height and my chin is just above the table, which takes a boatload of control not to sway. Check to see if your weight is centered on your feet, or whether you're back on your heels or forward on your toes. Make sure your weight is centered left-to-right, as well. Granted, not every position lets you use your perfect stance, but you may as well get perfect when you can.

If all else fails, try to use the table to anchor yourself better. Lean your hips into the table when you can, set your bridge hand down with your elbow on the table, make as many points of contact with the table as you can to steady yourself. That's if fixing your stance (or starting up a good core workout) doesn't help.

Good luck!
Click to expand...

I'm a rock climber (well, used to be) so my core is strong enough. It isn't physical fatique but more of a learned impulse to shift my weight straight forward a small amount. It feels weird to stay perfectly still but I'll starting to get used to it. The trust in my stroke is improving a lot because of it.

i tell you, this forum is a lot better then trial-and-erroring my way to feedback.
 
I've done some more research, and determined my problem can better be describled by slightly "jumping up" rather than calling it swaying. It appears to be a very common problem. At least now I am aware of what it feels like to not jump up.
 
TheThaiger said:
:D

I used to play a guy whose arm used to shake like leaf - it was so bad you'd feel sorry for him, and think he'd never pot a ball. Then he'd clear the table, every single time.
Click to expand...

Varner has a bad shake these days, and he's not too bad of a shooter ;)

But he does not do the drunken sailor bit with his body when shooting.

I think the only time I have heard advice about moving the body during a shot is during the break when you follow through with your legs.
 
nrhoades said:
I've done some more research, and determined my problem can better be describled by slightly "jumping up" rather than calling it swaying. It appears to be a very common problem. At least now I am aware of what it feels like to not jump up.
Click to expand...

A trick me and a buddy used to do to break this is to hold a hand over the back of the guy shooting, when you shot and then get whacked in the back you know you went up too soon. If you use a sharp broken bottle it may help you learn faster :grin:

Filming yourself shooting is a good idea. Every 2 bit phone has a camera these days, line one up on you next time you play.
 
coming up on the shot, as its known in snooker.
interesting fact : Joe Davis ( snooker world champ) said in his book, that he struggled against this problem all his life. Steve Davis (who learned the game from Joe Davis's book) had the same problem and his father used to stand behind him , and if he came up on the shot ,he hit him on the head with Joe Davis's book. But I like Hang- the- 9's broken bottle technique.
 
sheffield6 said:
coming up on the shot, as its known in snooker.
interesting fact : Joe Davis ( snooker world champ) said in his book, that he struggled against this problem all his life. Steve Davis (who learned the game from Joe Davis's book) had the same problem and his father used to stand behind him , and if he came up on the shot ,he hit him on the head with Joe Davis's book. But I like Hang- the- 9's broken bottle technique.
Click to expand...

My first book on the game was also by Joe Davis..Complete Snooker.

I feel that holding yourself still tends to be negative.
..my mantra under heat was 'hit the ball with the cue'....
...and 'the only thing that moves is what makes the cue move'

basically I tried to follow Occam's Razor....
..It is vain to do with more what you can do with less.
..also known as the law of parsimony
 
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Scott Lee said:
walrus_3d...You do not "get more action" on the CB putting body weight into your stroke. It only makes it more difficult to be accurate. Simple motion = greater accuracy.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
Click to expand...

I'm going to agree with you that moving fewer parts makes you more accurate, but I'm going to disagree with you about whether having more momentum behind the cue generates more power in the shot, and thus "more action". If you stroke with draw, for instance, at 50% speed, and then shoot the same shot, same arm speed, while shifting your weight back then forward, there is a noticeable increase in the amount of backspin you impart on the cue ball without doing any more work with your arm. If increasing your arm speed up to the 90-100% range makes you lose your accuracy, then you may find that shooting at 50% with a body weight shift actually gets you the same end result with.. more accuracy. I'm not saying it's a good idea, I'm just saying it's a palatable workaround for someone who lacks the arm strength for a particular shot. That's probably why so many peope shift their body weight on the break. They want more power on a shot that still needs to be accurate.

Shifting my body weight is the way I used to power draw. Now I've learned to do it with just my stroke, but only because I've improved the accuracy and speed of my stroke once I found out what the hit was supposed to feel like. There are lots of things I'll try at the practice table that will lead to things that are useful during a match.

But thanks for telling me I'm wrong without actually disproving what I said. :)
 
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