synthetic pool cues

[berlowmj]

There has been a great deal of discussion regarding synthetic cue tips especially phenolic, G-10, G-11 etc. What about synthetic cues? I often work out at Bank Shot Billiards in Louisville, where I noticed that many of the advanced players seem to favor a synthetic one piece house cue for breaking. I think it is made of fiberglass, but I am not sure.

 

[JoeyInCali]

They are mosty cheap wood with fiberglass coating.
They make for crappy playing cues.
If they start making accoustic guitars with synthetic materials, I'll look at it.

 

[Topher]

Maybe you should check out....

Rainsong Guitars.

100% Graphite and they play and sound awesome.

Sorry. Couldn't resist.

 

[John Barton]

I don't know anything about guitars but I will spot anyone on earth the rainbow if they agree to try and play pool with one. Conversely I will also bet that not many people can play do ri mi on a pool cue.

So I don't understand the guitar/pool cue comparison.

I know that they used to play golf with wooden glubs and tennis with wooden raquets and that you won't find a serious professional or good amateur in either sport playing with wood instuments today.

All I know is that I HAVE played with some pretty sporty synthetic cues. Allan McCarty from Predator believes that eventually carbon fiber or some sythetic will replace wood for pool cues. I believe him as well.

Wood is great for cues but there is no reason to beleive that whatever characterisitcs it has in regards to playing the game can not be synthesized.

As it turns out (of course) we are going to debut a cue this year that does really play well. And some of the models are 100% synthetic with no wood in it. But the balance, taper, feel, and ball control are all on par with most good cues out there.

And yes, there will be at some point a blind test done in public to show for a fact that they are indistinguihsable from wood cues as far as hit and feel go.

So put me in the synthetic cues are ok category.

 

[John Barton]

I thought it was a joke about Rainsong guitars. Nope.
www.rainsong.com

"


Hello! I have been playing my new A-WS1000 for a few weeks now and absolutely love it. The playability alone has actually taken the level of my playing up a notch. It's just so easy now ... also the natural volume and sustain are awesome. Thanks for the great guitar. This one will probably be the main instrument on the next CD.

I purchased a WS3000 from a dealer in Upstate New York in November 2003. I am thoroughly happy. Living in the desert (Las Vegas, NV), with its attendant low humidity, has wreaked havoc with the wooden necks of other acoustic guitars. Constant tuning is a fact of life ... my other 12 string, a '49 Guild, is an inside the house only guitar. Happily, my RainSong has proved impervious to both low humidity and heat. I left it on a guitar stand on the patio yesterday for 3 hours ... some of that time in direct sunlight. The temperature was a balmy 106 degrees and the relative humidity 12%. The guitar was still in tune ... I sat on the patio and played a bit ... went inside the house where air conditioned temp is 78 degrees ... set the RainSong on a stand ... picked it up two hours later & it was still in perfect tune.

It May Be Manufactured Somewhere Else, But Rainsong was MADE for the Prairie Winter!

I am writing from Winnipeg Manitoba Canada on the western Canadian prairie. We look forward to our four distinct seasons in these parts, but our 2003-2004 winter was a nasty one. Days and days of temperatures in the minus 40s (with wind chill values often in the minus 50s). Almost record snowfall, combined with crisp dry air made even the most hearty soul look forward to spring.

Little did my Rainsong WS1000 know what lay in store when it arrived by air from Vancouver two Christmases ago. It had yet to face the severity of this past winter but did get her in time to 'test its mettle' (graphite) for most of the previous one.

You could call the prairie winter the ultimate 'torture test' for wood and laminate instruments. I don't know a player, no matter how carefully he/she stores it, who doesn't need a guitar adjusted and set up at least a couple of times a year.

Not so for the WS1000. It is simply amazing. It is absolutely and utterly unaffected by the elements, no matter the season. I have not touched the pegs since my last set of Elixir strings were put on, and that was months ago. It is sitting next to me now in my (gasp!) basement!

The Rainsong was MADE for the prairies."

Joey, start checking out graphite

 

[Craig Fales]

guitars and pool cues take advantage of the tonal qualities in woods...whereas golf and tennis do not...

 

[Snapshot9]

Comments

Having a synthetic cue is like having a synthetic staircase and bannister, some might go for it, but most don't.

 

[Double-Dave]

Longoni has been making (not sure if they still do) synthetic shafts for years. I played with one, and it wasn't all that different from a wood shaft. It did have a carom taper/diameter and I only shot a few balls with it, so no deeper insights.

gr. Dave

 

[StrokeofLuck]

I don't know anything about guitars but I will spot anyone on earth the rainbow if they agree to try and play pool with one. Conversely I will also bet that not many people can play do ri mi on a pool cue.

So I don't understand the guitar/pool cue comparison.

I know that they used to play golf with wooden glubs and tennis with wooden raquets and that you won't find a serious professional or good amateur in either sport playing with wood instuments today.

All I know is that I HAVE played with some pretty sporty synthetic cues. Allan McCarty from Predator believes that eventually carbon fiber or some sythetic will replace wood for pool cues. I believe him as well.

Wood is great for cues but there is no reason to beleive that whatever characterisitcs it has in regards to playing the game can not be synthesized.

As it turns out (of course) we are going to debut a cue this year that does really play well. And some of the models are 100% synthetic with no wood in it. But the balance, taper, feel, and ball control are all on par with most good cues out there.

And yes, there will be at some point a blind test done in public to show for a fact that they are indistinguihsable from wood cues as far as hit and feel go.

So put me in the synthetic cues are ok category.

I'm with you 100%. Someone will come up with one that will provide feedback and feel along with the low maintenance (no dings, no dents, no warp) that pool players want and then the floodgates will open. It's just a matter of time.

 

[Dead Crab]

I would say that there is a big difference between a totally synthetic cue and the current generation of graphite covered cheap wood.

Having said that, I seem to recall aluminum cues having a brief popularity in the early 70's, but they sure didn't sustain.

 

[JoeyInCali]

Rainsong Guitars.

100% Graphite and they play and sound awesome.

Sorry. Couldn't resist.

Thnx.
Tried graphite cues. Balicini made for McDermott was one of my first cues.
Too sticky.
The thing about graphite is they become sticky.
And because it comes from a melted material, it felt dull.

 

[cuesblues]

do re mi

I don't know anything about guitars but I will spot anyone on earth the rainbow if they agree to try and play pool with one. Conversely I will also bet that not many people can play do ri mi on a pool cue.

So I don't understand the guitar/pool cue comparison.

I know that they used to play golf with wooden glubs and tennis with wooden raquets and that you won't find a serious professional or good amateur in either sport playing with wood instuments today.

All I know is that I HAVE played with some pretty sporty synthetic cues. Allan McCarty from Predator believes that eventually carbon fiber or some sythetic will replace wood for pool cues. I believe him as well.

Wood is great for cues but there is no reason to beleive that whatever characterisitcs it has in regards to playing the game can not be synthesized.

As it turns out (of course) we are going to debut a cue this year that does really play well. And some of the models are 100% synthetic with no wood in it. But the balance, taper, feel, and ball control are all on par with most good cues out there.

And yes, there will be at some point a blind test done in public to show for a fact that they are indistinguihsable from wood cues as far as hit and feel go.

So put me in the synthetic cues are ok category.

If you do find a cue that can play the scale, I want it

Is there a good cue out there made from synthetic materials? I've seen some nice vinyl cue cases also

 

[JoeW]

Some sort of synthetic core with a new type of cue stick finish will improve the directional deflection problem and the amount of stiffness in a cue. With the right analysis I will bet that one will be able to order any preferred stiffness. Wood cues will be for historical purposes and collectors. That is my bet.

 

[JoeyInCali]

Some sort of synthetic core with a new type of cue stick finish will improve the directional deflection problem and the amount of stiffness in a cue. With the right analysis I will bet that one will be able to order any preferred stiffness. Wood cues will be for historical purposes and collectors. That is my bet.

Or another googan tool in the market.

 

[ShootingArts]

I think the time for synthetic will come

I have no idea if we are talking ten years or a hundred but I think that the time for synthetic pool cues will come. Quality natural materials are getting harder and harder to come by and I was surprised when a recent poll revealed that most players are playing with a synthetic shaft.

OK, those of you with their fingers itching to deny that can finish reading before they disagree. The OB-1, the hit comes from the adhesives in the laminates and the nonorganic materials used. Even all of the other spliced shafts have the hit coming from the splices and the feel sliding through the player's fingers from the wooden part of the shaft. This isn't a bad thing but simply a reality of life since there is only a small fraction of an old growth hard maple log that is perfect for making shafts.

I feel fairly sure that synthetic butts that play well are do-able now so full synthetics are probably as close as public acceptance.

John, I'll be watching your new sticks with interest. I will have to point out it is very possible to play do ra mi with a pool cue. I have done it, you just have to tap the right three heads in the proper order!

Hu

 

[axejunkie]

The wood tennis and golf equipment comparison to pool cues is not very good. Synthetic racquets and clubs perform better than wood ones. Pool is a game of feel. If one cue hits harder or draws further that doesn't mean it will work better for every player. This isn't comparable to a racquet that servers 20 mph faster or club that drives 30 yds. farther.

I'm not being a total naysayer with regards to synthetic cues but I feel this is the reason they haven't caught on. In pool there is simply too much of it in the hands of the player.

 

[pwd72s]

All good comments here. An additional thought...synthetic cues could make good "trunk cues"...carry in your car trunk without worry of warpage.

Anybody have thoughts on this? At this point, I still prefer the feel of wood.

 

[John Barton]

guitars and pool cues take advantage of the tonal qualities in woods...whereas golf and tennis do not...

www.rainsong.com all graphite (no wood) guitars.

How exactly do pool cues take advantage of tonal qualities of the material?

I for one think that tone has some kind of correlation to the hit of the cue in that a pleasing tone generally accompanies a good hitting cue. However what a "pleasing tone" sounds like is completely subjective. I am not aware of many cuemakers who build their cues according to the tonal qualities of the wood, perhaps Bub Runde. Maybe more should. I don't doubt that there is something to building according to tone. (disclaimer - I know NOTHING about music, sound waves, pitch, keys, or anything associated with singing or playing an instrument. I can't even play the radio)

So IF you are correct that the tonal qualities of wood can be combined to produce a good cue then it only follows that IF there are synthetic substitutes for wood that produce the proper tones consistently that those materials could be used to produce a good and consistent cue.

Golf and tennis players talk about the feel of their equipment all the time. If you don't think that everyone who uses sporting equipment doesn't use feel to judge the quality then you need to get with more top level players i other sports or study some more. Anyone who regularly uses instruments whether it be in sports or industry knows how their equipment feels and handles. I am 100% positive that synthetics have replaced wood in 95% percent of industrial applications. Pool happens to be a LOW DOLLAR industry where not even the bravest entrepreneur has millions to spend on developing a better pool cue using synthetics.

Still though, some companies are trying, mostly in Asia, and mostly companies that have made their money in other areas like Golf or Tennis.

Cuetec is already a success story for synthetic/wood hybrid cues. In ten years Cuetecs built now will seem like relics compared to what is coming.

The point though is one of performance. IF a synthetic cannot produce as good or better performance than the average wood cue then it won't make much headway in the market. Graphite racquets and golf clubs clearly provide better performance over wooden ones. To date the performance of synthetic cues now on the market has not provided a clear advantage in performance so they haven't taken over as Graphite has in tennis and golf.

Until the performance barrier is completely broken then the only real advantage to graphite will be consistency through differing climates. As with the Rainsong guitars they will be the same in winter, summer, dry and humid climates. If you believe that wood has certain qualities of feel then you also have to believe that wood has certain limitations as well.

 

[John Barton]

The wood tennis and golf equipment comparison to pool cues is not very good. Synthetic racquets and clubs perform better than wood ones. Pool is a game of feel. If one cue hits harder or draws further that doesn't mean it will work better for every player. This isn't comparable to a racquet that servers 20 mph faster or club that drives 30 yds. farther.

I'm not being a total naysayer with regards to synthetic cues but I feel this is the reason they haven't caught on. In pool there is simply too much of it in the hands of the player.

Try telling a tennis player or a golfer that they don't feel the shots and they will laugh at you.

Actually if a cue does perform better, i.e. draws further or hits harder then it will work better for every player. If a car goes 200 miles an hour then it goes that fast for every driver. Whether a driver is skilled enough to handle a car at 200 mph is another issue. Equipment is inert and doesn't magically adjust to the player. People however are magic and they adjust to the equipment, giving more effort when the equipment demands it and less effort when the equipment assists.

 

[JoeyInCali]

I am not aware of many cuemakers who build their cues according to the tonal qualities of the wood, perhaps Bub Runde. Maybe more should. I don't doubt that there is something to building according to tone.

More than you think.
I believe Harvey Martin was the first one to bounce woods for tone.
So IF you are correct that the tonal qualities of wood can be combined to produce a good cue then it only follows that IF there are synthetic substitutes for wood that produce the proper tones consistently that those materials could be used to produce a good and consistent cue.
Yes. Make me a pair that sound and act like Brazilian rosewood and rock maple.
Golf and tennis players talk about the feel of their equipment all the time
But synthetics/steel in their equipment were designed to make the ball go longer and spin more.