T.O.I by randyg

randyg said:
Well it's 6:30 somewhere.....:)

I put one solid hour (maybe too much time) into T.O.I this afternoon.

All by myself, a cup of coffee and an Open Mind.

RESULT: Either I didn't get the proper info or the info I received is wrong.
I just could not get T.O.I to work correctly.

It so happens that I'm having Lunch with CJ tomorrow. I will ask CJ to watch over my efforts.

Report back later.

Sorry
randyg
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Teachers are always trying to get the students to open their mind. A closed mind cannot learn. Cudos to Randy for admitting his struggles with a new concept, this says a lot to me. I look forward to the rest of this thread with an open mind...
 
MT Pockets said:
Been away from here for quite awhile so excuse me for asking but what is the TOI aiming system?
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Its not an aiming system, but rather a system for playing. At least that's how I would describe it.

I'm sure CJ will be along at some point to give you the definitive answer, but if you don't want to wait, there arr more than a few threads, and a youtube video you can search for that will give you a far more complete answer.
 
There's equidistant to thousands of pages/posts on that TOI DvD.

thebear7 said:
Is this right mr Wiley? because what I undertand is that you shift in parallel line from center cue ball to the inside, and doing this (for me) never takes me to object ball center or edge. thanks in advance

BTW Sorry for my english
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I don't try to interfere with what someone chooses to "see" on the object ball. When you align Center to Center (or CTE on cuts) you now have the same connection between the cue ball and the object ball ever time. This is the only way to make the cue ball the complete target, you really don't even have to look at the object ball, in terms of hitting anywhere specific. I'm creating an angle through the connection....there's only 3 angles I need to create off center or off the edge. I don't count "straight in" or a severe cut as one of those angles, however, if you do there's only 8 total angles.

I can explain this in the DVD, the ones that are benefiting the most are watching the DVD ever day, there's over 11 hours of information condensed to 90 minutes. It may take 5 times to begin to absorb everything that's being presented. It looks simple when I'm showing it, however, there is a LOT of information, I know for sure because I wrote the script. There's equidistant to thousands of posts/pages on that TOI DvD.
 
For me, the main problem using TOI in championship matches was the speed. I'm practicing in a local pool hall on tables with medium-slow speed cloth, you have to stroke pretty hard to make ball go 3-4 rail, on tournaments table it was fast speed cloth and I had to reduce power of my shots in half. That affects my game a little.
I know that TOI is best on medium old cloth, and not the best on tournament slick fast cloth. In TOI video, CJ recommends for stroke a 3 table length speed, but I think it's too much for me.

How you think what speed is best for tournaments fast cloth tables, and how a player can adjust to a fast table before the match?
The advice to accelerate through the cueball means to hit it hard, or I don't understand it correct? I observed that the medium power stroke is best for my TOI interpretation (I'll say it's a 1,5 table length speed.)
 
Take a look at this video again, it's easier to "show," than "tell,

AlexandruM said:
For me, the main problem using TOI in championship matches was the speed. I'm practicing in a local pool hall on tables with medium-slow speed cloth, you have to stroke pretty hard to make ball go 3-4 rail, on tournaments table it was fast speed cloth and I had to reduce power of my shots in half. That affects my game a little.
I know that TOI is best on medium old cloth, and not the best on tournament slick fast cloth. In TOI video, CJ recommends for stroke a 3 table length speed, but I think it's too much for me.

How you think what speed is best for tournaments fast cloth tables, and how a player can adjust to a fast table before the match?
The advice to accelerate through the cueball means to hit it hard, or I don't understand it correct? I observed that the medium power stroke is best for my TOI interpretation (I'll say it's a 1,5 table length speed.)
Click to expand...

In this video I'm playing on new cloth so I"m hitting the ball more like two table lengths....you can adjust your speed accordingly.

Take a look at this video again, it's easier to "show," than "tell," when it comes to your questions.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RMB-Q-KbwX0&feature=youtu.be
 
CJ Wiley said:
In this video I'm playing on new cloth so I"m hitting the ball more like two table lengths....you can adjust your speed accordingly.

Take a look at this video again, it's easier to "show," than "tell," when it comes to your questions.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RMB-Q-KbwX0&feature=youtu.be
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Thank you Mr. Wiley. I'll watch it again.
In conclusion the accelerate through the CB doesn't mean to hit the CB hard, it just have to be a firm shot. I'll try it today on the table.
 
CJ Wiley said:
I don't try to interfere with what someone chooses to "see" on the object ball. When you align Center to Center (or CTE on cuts) you now have the same connection between the cue ball and the object ball ever time. This is the only way to make the cue ball the complete target, you really don't even have to look at the object ball, in terms of hitting anywhere specific. I'm creating an angle through the connection....there's only 3 angles I need to create off center or off the edge. I don't count "straight in" or a severe cut as one of those angles, however, if you do there's only 8 total angles.

I can explain this in the DVD, the ones that are benefiting the most are watching the DVD ever day, there's over 11 hours of information condensed to 90 minutes. It may take 5 times to begin to absorb everything that's being presented. It looks simple when I'm showing it, however, there is a LOT of information, I know for sure because I wrote the script. There's equidistant to thousands of posts/pages on that TOI DvD.
Click to expand...



you are right mr Wiley, I already have the ppv and I don´t have doubt that it is full of knowledge , I just wrote the last post to see your thought about mr jackpot comments because as you see my english it is not so good and I can´t get all from the ppv, I know it is my problem if I don´t understand all from the ppv because my language but I ´ll keep practicing your TOI anyway untill I get it. Thank you very much for answer.

Cheers from México to all
 
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AlexandruM said:
Thank you Mr. Wiley. I'll watch it again.
In conclusion the accelerate through the CB doesn't mean to hit the CB hard, it just have to be a firm shot. I'll try it today on the table.
Click to expand...

I'd say the accelerating stroke feels like you are trying to flip/run the ball away from you.. If you decelerate you feel like you are digging into it and if you hit it at a constant speed you won't feel the ball jump slightly off contact....

Not sure if that's how CJ would describe it but it's how it feels when I am using it properly......

Chris
 
I always have a relative point to determine my distance from the cue ball

AlexandruM said:
Thank you Mr. Wiley. I'll watch it again.
In conclusion the accelerate through the CB doesn't mean to hit the CB hard, it just have to be a firm shot. I'll try it today on the table.
Click to expand...

Yes, and as you will notice and I make reference to changing my right hand position on the cue. This basically shortens it and then I can still accelerate very quickly, without the cue ball doing much, and it's also advisable to choke up to "stun" the cue ball.

I use the pool cue as a "measuring devise" and keep it touching my right hip so I always have a relative point to determine my distance from the cue ball. The reason this is important is when I do "Choke Up" on the cue, it also makes me stand closer to the cue ball....automatically. You Do Not want to choke up on you cue (making it shorter) and still stand the same distance from the cue ball. This would change many of your body angles and is NOT advisable.
 
I have watched the PPV everyday specially before and after I came back from the pool hall. It's like check, recheck and verify. CJ has been answering all my questions and provided alot of help. It has been 19 days since I got the PPV although its frustrating sometimes to get consistently do TOI correctly, there have been alot of benefits and I still be able to beat some players in my area where I couldnt beat before.

One thing that is important, which he pm'd me last night is "The CUE BALL is the target, so concentrate on the cue ball while you're getting down and just be AWARE of the object ball....DO NOT AIM at it, just let your feel take over and "feel the angle" as you hit the cue ball."

Thanks again for all the help CJ
 
Randy,

I think what you are experiencing is the same that a lot of us are. I can get it to work with some of the angles, but not all, and also not consistently.

What would really be helpful is: after your session with CJ, that is if you "get it", could you detail what you were doing prior to and then what the transformation was in order to see it.

I guess what I am asking is for someone that either is shown or figured it out, to, walk us through it.

I've watched the DVD and I've read all the posts. There's still something that I'm not doing. It's either in calculating the angles, the speed, or the stroke or a combination.

Thanks, Dougster
 
dougster26 said:
Randy,

I think what you are experiencing is the same that a lot of us are. I can get it to work with some of the angles, but not all, and also not consistently.

What would really be helpful is: after your session with CJ, that is if you "get it", could you detail what you were doing prior to and then what the transformation was in order to see it.

I guess what I am asking is for someone that either is shown or figured it out, to, walk us through it.

I've watched the DVD and I've read all the posts. There's still something that I'm not doing. It's either in calculating the angles, the speed, or the stroke or a combination.

Thanks, Dougster
Click to expand...

It's not an aiming system per se. It's more a way to control the cueball while stroking with authority. It will make a lot of shots but you have to feel the angle and stroke.
 
you don't have to visually aim by the time you look at the object ball.

TommyT said:
It's not an aiming system per se. It's more a way to control the cueball while stroking with authority. It will make a lot of shots but you have to feel the angle and stroke.
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That's right, it's not an "aiming system" although the people that don't know anything about it try to say it should be in the "aiming system" forum, they simply don't have a clue.

It's a three fold playing system:

SHOT SPEED
CREATING ANGLE
TIP TO TOI TARGET

I start out 90% visual above the shot and by the time I get down, make sure my cue ball target is "dialed in" - I change to 90% feeling/touch when I'm looking at the object ball.

This is just an example of the process, there's no way I am measuring the exact percentage, the point is you don't have to visually aim by the time you look at the object ball.
 
the way i do it is..
#1 determine if shot requires ctc or cte
#2 get on line of shot
#3 place tip where i want to hit cue ball
#4 repeat in my head..cue ball cue ball cue ball cue ball object ball cue ball cue ball...thats where im looking
#5 fire away...trying to keep follow through at a MINIMUM!!
 
TommyT said:
It's not an aiming system per se. It's more a way to control the cueball while stroking with authority. It will make a lot of shots but you have to feel the angle and stroke.
Click to expand...

I know that this is not an aiming system. I didn't as far as I know imply such. Maybe the confusion came from when I said "in order to see". Probably should of said "in order to feel"

Seeing as where I am having a problem, I was looking for what I could be doing wrong. When going through the CB does the tip go to the cloth or stay level. Does this make any difference? When you look at the target on the CB you have to be associating this with the angle. When I get close to a 1/2 ball hit, I go over about a tip and it still doesn't come close. This tells me that I am doing something wrong and that was what I was referring to. Someone has had to have had some of the problems that I have and then figured out what it was that they were doing wrong.

Just looking for some answers. I do realize I may be biting off more than I can chew and that this might be too advanced. My mechanics might be part of the problem. I'll continue working on it because with the lesser angles I seem to be able to make the shot (not 100%) and I like the action of the CB.

Thanks for any input

Dougster
 
dougster26 said:
I know that this is not an aiming system. I didn't as far as I know imply such. Maybe the confusion came from when I said "in order to see". Probably should of said "in order to feel"

Seeing as where I am having a problem, I was looking for what I could be doing wrong. When going through the CB does the tip go to the cloth or stay level. Does this make any difference? When you look at the target on the CB you have to be associating this with the angle. When I get close to a 1/2 ball hit, I go over about a tip and it still doesn't come close. This tells me that I am doing something wrong and that was what I was referring to. Someone has had to have had some of the problems that I have and then figured out what it was that they were doing wrong.

Just looking for some answers. I do realize I may be biting off more than I can chew and that this might be too advanced. My mechanics might be part of the problem. I'll continue working on it because with the lesser angles I seem to be able to make the shot (not 100%) and I like the action of the CB.

Thanks for any input

Dougster
Click to expand...

Buy the DVD. It will answer your questions.
 
I may need to watch you for a few minutes sometime in the near future.

dfranklin said:
the way i do it is..
#1 determine if shot requires ctc or cte
#2 get on line of shot
#3 place tip where i want to hit cue ball
#4 repeat in my head..cue ball cue ball cue ball cue ball object ball cue ball cue ball...thats where im looking
#5 fire away...trying to keep follow through at a MINIMUM!!
Click to expand...

These are the main points of what you needed to work on, I'm impressed, I know some "old habits" can be challenging to break.

How's it coming so far? I may need to watch you for a few minutes sometime in the near future. The TOI Training is much easier when you have some informative input with "another set of eyes". Let me know, I'm available a few nights in the next week and can stop by one of the local places.
 
I would like to thank Mr. Wiley for spending the afternoon with me. CJ was a delight to learn from. I believe that I have the concept of T.O.I.

Now I can go back to the practice table and put to use T.O.I.

Report back very soon,
randyg
 
finding the angle

C.J. you can get roughly 32 balls across the table on a 4 1/2x 9.
16 from rail to middle. With cue ball in the middle of the table, working from middle out you would have four angles off of ctc four off cte to
closet part of pocket. Now go from middle in it would be the same angles
4 ctc 4 cte other side of table same thing. RIGHT? So look at ob to closet
part of pocket , determine the angle move tip to create the angle and
and that should be on it. So if this is correct once I learn to recognize
the angle I should be able to move the tip to the right place (1/4 1/2 etc)
and that will cover a large portion of the shots.
jack
 
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