How do you use a touch of inside when position may call for outside spin?
I can diagram an example but we all know these situations arise.
Gerry
I can diagram an example but we all know these situations arise.
Gerry
T.O.I by randyg
- Thread starter randyg
- Start date
A couple of points on TOI. this is mainly for the players whom have not played that long, and CJ can correct me if I am wrong. A few people have said they have some trouble with long shots. When CJ is talking about lining up on the cb and ob on long shots as if they were straight in, he is talking about when the cb and ob are farther apart when they are closer together but a long way from the pocket you still line up center to edge. On close cut shots that are at a sharper angle, you have to hit the cue ball a little more firmly, so you get more deflection on the cue ball in a much shorter time to pocket the ball. I know most will know this, but just in case a newbe does not.
Backhand English...you pivot back to center or just a TOO after coming down on the shot with a TOI.
Last edited:
Iggy Needed
Facts:
Randy G started this Thread and has a total of 15 posts.
English! joined the thread at approximately half way through (at this point 11 pages) and has 16 posts.
Conclusion
Starters and or Users of threads need an Iggy option for those people who totally take over intelligent discussions by others by arguing, demeaning, of what the original poster has to say, and have caused people like Randy to go offline sort of speak to answer questions.
Why
It is a waste of time. In fact if I could I would Iggy all of English! posts and those who reply to his posts I would in ALL Forums. I suggest to those who feel the same way to not reply to English! posts in the future.
I suggest for English and others like him to start their own thread to demean. Like Arguments for and against Randy G's thread.
English you can call me anything you want just know the fact that I'm not responding nor will I except any of your excuses. You can start a thread Arguments against TominFaribo's thinking and rant all you want. But don't waste these good people's time and my time having to skip over you garbage.
IMHO Tom
Facts:
Randy G started this Thread and has a total of 15 posts.
English! joined the thread at approximately half way through (at this point 11 pages) and has 16 posts.
Conclusion
Starters and or Users of threads need an Iggy option for those people who totally take over intelligent discussions by others by arguing, demeaning, of what the original poster has to say, and have caused people like Randy to go offline sort of speak to answer questions.
Why
It is a waste of time. In fact if I could I would Iggy all of English! posts and those who reply to his posts I would in ALL Forums. I suggest to those who feel the same way to not reply to English! posts in the future.
I suggest for English and others like him to start their own thread to demean. Like Arguments for and against Randy G's thread.
English you can call me anything you want just know the fact that I'm not responding nor will I except any of your excuses. You can start a thread Arguments against TominFaribo's thinking and rant all you want. But don't waste these good people's time and my time having to skip over you garbage.
IMHO Tom
JC
Coos Cues
I had the same question and realized after watching CJ run the racks in his video that it's mostly a matter of rethinking your position routes. Forgetting your favorite ones and changing your entire outlook of each rack to make the rack conform to your style, not the other way around. This really minimizes the situations you speak of. I don't however believe CJ thinks there is no place for outside english in his system of play. There's a time and place for everything. What he's teaching is a way of building consistency through keeping things as simple as possible. A shot here and there of course will require outside english to achieve a goal, just as some will require swerve or extreme draw. This would be considered a "specialty" shot however, not the shot you reach for first. That's my take on it anyway. Maybe CJ can answer better.
JC
JC
Coos Cues
The general statement hook was baited with Neil. How is that not trolling?
Everyone here isn't a dumbass.
JC
^^^^ This!
Thanks to you and Neil for calling this guy out. He was a troll when he joined, and 9 months later nothing has changed. At first I thought he was some pro's sock puppet creation, but who would make 3000 posts for that purpose alone?
I have been asked a number of times to serve as a moderator on various BBs, but trolls like "English!" always make me decline. I mean what do you do to a guy who, technically, hasn't violated any of the forum rules, but still is clever enough to stir up trouble, all the time with that, "Who, ME?" feigned shock at his detractors? And this phony "respect" he claims to have, calling everybody "Mr.", like I'm "Mr. Pockets" and everybody else is "Mr. Whatever-Your-Screen-Name-Is", all the while showing his true disrespect by the words he posts.
I don't think he fools too many, especially Mr. Wilson, so he may get the boot soon anyway. This is about the only board I know where the mods would put up with his crap. Wilson shoots from the hip, which is a good thing IMO. The Internet is a rough frontier, we need a good hanging judge like Judge Roy Bean to keep us all in line. Too bad he's so stretched out, most boards have numerous mods.
In the meantime, enough is enough, Mr. Rick. No one here thinks you are innocent.
This.
You'd be surprised at how much "outside English" you can impart by using this method. I've always been guilty of using tooooo much English in the past with the "regular" way of doing things.
If I recognize that a shot needs "outside", I'll get my body aligned up to the shot with the TOI.....and then slightly pivot back towards center to the point that I think I need. I've pretty much only pivoted as far back as to center CB and I was really happy with how it "tamed" my CB down. As in, I got that slight outer spin I needed off of a rail, but I wasn't turning the CB loose like I had done in the past. This is the backhand English. Prior to this, I was a parallel English kinda guy.
I would almost imagine.....and I've never asked CJ this, nor have I seen him address it, but.......if one were to become very, very proficient with the entire TOI method, you could probably come down straight into the shot where you needed to be with that "outside".....without having to pivot. Again, I only think this is possible. I'm still learning as I go with TOI.
I'd be interested in CJ's thoughts on it an "air pivot", if you will.
I know I don't have a problem coming down with the TOI and giving a slight pivot. At that point in the shot process, I've made up my mind and I know what I'm doing, but it's possible that it could make your opponent think that you're pretty unsure of what you're doing. Then after a couple of break and runs, he'd just think you're getting lucky. :thumbup:
Honestly, tho, I'm not having to use the outside pivot much at all. I might be underutilizing it, perhaps, but I played 5 matches or so at a tourney last week and I could count on one hand how many times I had to do it.
I guess TOI has really made me realize that there are alterative routes to the "norm". Not only pattern play, but the overall method of approaching the table and conforming it to your game.
TOI has really eased the stress level in my head, as I know I'm going to try to hit the same shot every time, if at all possible.
This.
You'd be surprised at how much "outside English" you can impart by using this method. I've always been guilty of using tooooo much English in the past with the "regular" way of doing things.
If I recognize that a shot needs "outside", I'll get my body aligned up to the shot with the TOI.....and then slightly pivot back towards center to the point that I think I need. I've pretty much only pivoted as far back as to center CB and I was really happy with how it "tamed" my CB down. As in, I got that slight outer spin I needed off of a rail, but I wasn't turning the CB loose like I had done in the past. This is the backhand English. Prior to this, I was a parallel English kinda guy.
I would almost imagine.....and I've never asked CJ this, nor have I seen him address it, but.......if one were to become very, very proficient with the entire TOI method, you could probably come down straight into the shot where you needed to be with that "outside".....without having to pivot. Again, I only think this is possible. I'm still learning as I go with TOI.
I'd be interested in CJ's thoughts on it an "air pivot", if you will.
I know I don't have a problem coming down with the TOI and giving a slight pivot. At that point in the shot process, I've made up my mind and I know what I'm doing, but it's possible that it could make your opponent think that you're pretty unsure of what you're doing. Then after a couple of break and runs, he'd just think you're getting lucky. :thumbup:
Honestly, tho, I'm not having to use the outside pivot much at all. I might be underutilizing it, perhaps, but I played 5 matches or so at a tourney last week and I could count on one hand how many times I had to do it.
I guess TOI has really made me realize that there are alterative routes to the "norm". Not only pattern play, but the overall method of approaching the table and conforming it to your game.
TOI has really eased the stress level in my head, as I know I'm going to try to hit the same shot every time, if at all possible.
You aline yourself with toi then you pivot back towards center?
Wouldnt you still be on the inside?
So, If I say Mr. Neil has a wealth of pool knowledge, that is trolling because I merely stated his name?
I was in a conversation with John Barton & was in the process of trying to make a point & asked John if he thought Mr. Neil & Mr. G were similiar as to pool knowledge.
Mr. Neil jumped in based on an assumption that he is omniscient & can read my mind, my intent, & even my cares & begins to insult me. To what purpose? Who is trolling who?
I have nothing against Mr. Neil except his insults directed at me. They have continued since our first disagreement after our first contact. I disagree with him regarding the pendulum stroke & his opinion of CJ Wiley's TOI.
When our pendulum disagreement cooled down & I got a better understanding of Mr. Neil I tried to show him some respect & offered my hand, he basically immediately 'spit' in it.
Ya'll are 'worshipping' an incomplete man.
Look at this in the big picture. If I wanted to 'dog' Mr. Neil & 'troll' all of his posts there were many opportunties to do so. What motive would there be to do that.
My physics education leads me to disagree with some of what he says & sometimes how he says something that can be misleading & should be clarified. He can't stand that.
Mr. Neil is paranoid regarding me because I do not bow down & worship his every word. My physics understanding will not allow me to do that. Mr. Neil does not want to discuss anything. He only wants to preach.... & then be worshipped.
Some of ya'll have the benefit of all of his past posts. I do not... as he has deleted all of them. What does that say about him? I only know him since his return from his self imposed exile. He has recently been banned in a case that had nothing to do with me.
Take the predudiced blinders off & you may see the truth. I don't know the 'old' Mr. Neil but I would guess that the Mr. Neil after exile is not the same as the Mr. Neil way before the exile.
Naturally all of the above is only my opinion.
Some suggest that I am trying to fool people. First of all I have the utmost respect for the truth, the whole truth, & nothing but the truth. That is what may be getting me into 'trouble' more than anything. I am not being deceptive in any way. I do not like 'arguemetative discussion', but I am not afraid of it either, especially to get to the truth.
I have a background in the investigation of the mariitime industry. I don't take appearances for granted. I question. If the answer fits, fine. If the answer leaves openngs, I question again. I am not a blind sheep being led to the slaugter.
PS It is Mr. Neil's mind that is closed, not mine. If he want's to end this devisiveness I am more than willing, but I will still question where appropriate & I reserve my allowance to disagree & I will not stand idly by & be insulted either.
Last edited:
You aline yourself with toi then you pivot back towards center?
Wouldnt you still be on the inside?
Hi,
I understand but do think about crossing the vertical axis, much less work and that´s what you do in any ball game I know. Golf, to make a draw (right-handed) you have to come inside out, opposite for fade. Table tennis, tennis, soccer etc etc imo.
And then you think about it in energy, every action creates a equal reaction. So what I do I alwyas go down with TOI and then pivot - if I feel the need and the aiming/pivot will stay the same, they equal out if you do it correctly.
If you try it you will see that it works, don´t question it at first - just try it and see the results - then think
. Sometimes I wish I was 5 years old because then I have just been happy with the result
. Pivot aiming is better imo, and I always played and can still play with Parallel aiming but I concur.
You can really do some serious "cheating" of the pocket and still feel good about it sort of speak - TOI makes you create angles you didn´t know was there - almost, you had seen them but didn´t want to believe them, - accidents. Now these accidents are controlled shots.
For me it has been real fun all this, I don´t see it exactly like CJ (I´m not him) but he tells everything the way he feels it and when you have get that feel when it´s working everything sounds correct - I understand him.
If you go down with TOI in your mind and when you feel that you have it sort of, then look what the tip is pointing - for me it point´s at the exact contact point on the OB - "straight in". The balls are round - "every" newbie
comes down to straight into the shot and hit the ball to full, why - the balls are round etc etc - everyone knows/understand this when get explanation from the right teacher.
The amount of inside you go down with equals out the amount of english the cb takes from ob to get that "floating" cb.
"The game is perfect".
well there is more but this is some of the feelings I have about it, the way I "feel" (all my senses) it.
You can also think about LD/HD shafts, swerve/the curve you get etc.
I have always played a lot of shots thinking "curve" into it sort of speak, now I thinking that on all - sort of, why - because it´s there - go with it not against it.
Imaging the curve you get from a extreme LD to a extreme HD shaft (or if you prefer squirt - fine to - I hope you know what I mean though), I see it like a upside J or a big C sort of, I like the in between curve.
Shafts - I like a normally shaft with a shorter ferrule, in between. If there is good there is always bad where do you want to be. I choose in the middle.
Balance.
I haven´t talked about everything about what I feel with CJ about it, but this is how I feel TOI. However I´m still getting better at it so who knows
.CJ - I would love to hear your thoughts about my feel about it though.
Learning is a journey that never ends, like life. Pool has the same laws as life has. Try to kill life (antibiotics) and it will always come back stronger and bite you in the a....:wink:
Regards
Chrippa
JC
Coos Cues
tom (since my southern manners are offensive to some)
You should have followed your own advice & started your own thread to put me down & not have done so it Mr. G's thread.
Read the thread & see who instigates what when.
My post regarding my reluctance to put much credence in Mr. G's review of TOI has been misinterpreted as a put down of his abilities.
That is a misunderstanding perhaps due to my wording. I have tried to clarify my meaning as to the lack of crecence that 'I' would put in his review were related to the fact of lack of continual time spent vs Mr. G's ability.
I had thought that I had made that clear. Perhaps Mr. Neil is correct in his accessment of the reading comprehension of the AZB general population OR my wording may have again been lacking in relaying my meaning.
Seems that I have been misunderstood...again.
If Mr. G has chosen to go underground I would question why.
By doing so he obviously has the ability to say whatever he wishes with no real discussion with anyone that might disagree.
Mr. G. is a man of few words as you have pointed out & as evidenced by nearly all of his posts. He may not want to discuss his opinion of TOI & realized that posting his opinion might require such.
I don't know. I'm not omniscient & can not read minds, intentons or cares.
Regards Sir, Oooops forget that, Sorry, I did not mean to be polite or respectful, I was just trying to fool you.:wink:
Last edited:
Can we agree that we disagree when we not agree and move on to play some pool now, sorry couldn´t help myself
TOI nerds, for or against, shoot your best shots, pivoting or parallel ´ing, squirting and swerving, curving or ..... hmm what now, of course TOOíng:smile:
Regards
Chrippa
TOI nerds, for or against, shoot your best shots, pivoting or parallel ´ing, squirting and swerving, curving or ..... hmm what now, of course TOOíng:smile:
Regards
Chrippa
Well, apparently I do not. I sincerely ask you to show me where in this thread did I do anything to 'troll' Mr. Neil before he jumped in to insult me.
I have not even looked back as of this post. I am only going on my knowledge of my intent & my memory.
I will look back. If I have inadvertantly done something, I will apologize.
Please believe me, I would like nothing better than to put all of this to an end so we & I can dicuss playing pool. Discussion does not mean automatically agreeing because of WHO says something.
If you would be so kind, please show me where I went wrong before Mr. Neil jumped in to insult me.
Regards,
Randy
Btw - Randy, I for one would be glad if you came back and share some of your knowledge and your "feel" about TOI and the game in general. I would love to hear some of your thoughts about my "feel" and others feelings about TOI and Pool.
If you rather wish to PM me I understand.
Cheers
Chrippa
Btw - Randy, I for one would be glad if you came back and share some of your knowledge and your "feel" about TOI and the game in general. I would love to hear some of your thoughts about my "feel" and others feelings about TOI and Pool.
If you rather wish to PM me I understand.
Cheers
Chrippa
ENGLISH! said:
Here is where you went wrong...when you started to post back on
Join Date: June 2012
On a more serious note maybe the font size didn't help...I will try smaller here.
Rick, STOP
I was looking forward to Randy's feedback on here, but now it looks like certain people who will remain nameless are going to prevent that from happening.
Here is where you went wrong...when you started to post back on
Join Date: June 2012
On a more serious note maybe the font size didn't help...I will try smaller here.
Rick, STOP
I was looking forward to Randy's feedback on here, but now it looks like certain people who will remain nameless are going to prevent that from happening.
I think you & others are being a bit naive regarding why Mr. G has chosen to go underground. If a simple statement by me saying that I would be tentative regarding the weight 'I' might put on his evaluation given the time schedule he chose to spend with it is the real cause, Then what can I say, SORRY.
If you reallly want to to know his thoughts, he posted his e-mail address earlier for just that purpose.
Regards,
Last edited: