T.o.i.

[JB Cases]

Hi John,

I just today spent 3 hours with TOI. I have not pursued CTE with any real varacity. I have only toyed with it which has left me very intrigued with it. I use a mirror fractional overlap. I too have not focused on the 3 part pocket per say when 'aiming'. I 'think' what I am doing is just slightly adjusting my normal aim for a bit more fuller hit & then using the TOI to sguirt the CB for more cut. That may sound a bit of double indemnity, so to speak, but it's nice to hear the OB hitting the back of the pocket.

I would love to discuss CTE with you one day. I have viewed some of your videos. It just seems a bit more complicated than aiming needs to be, but I understand that a system, at least to fall back on, is nice to have. I don't have one. I generally just rely on my subconscious which seems to work fine but so did CTE except for the holes that I know are from my lack of knowledge with CTE.

Best Wishes, especially in a few days,

Thanks, CTE is way more complicated to explain than it is to use. That's unfortunate. In practice it's pretty much automatic for me personally.

But here is a much better video example of CTE (ProOne) in use, can you tell how this young man is struggling

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1HYQjoHjwL4

 

[Scott Lee]

Chris...Maybe Bob Jewett will chime in. He was in the group that did the testing. I believe the Jacksonville Project was done in the 90's. There were many tests done, but the outcome that was significant to me was the dwell time (tip vs CB) and the contact patch between tip and CB.

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

Scott,

Do you know when the tests were done and with what tips?

I seriously wonder if the tip technology changes might yield different results if done now...

What leads me to this question is knowing that the contact patch size using a phenolic tip decreases significantly... This has me wondering about the contact patches on layered tips since the glue layers can add significant COR to a tip....

Just food for thought and another test I may have to add to my todo list =)


Chris

 

[ENGLISH!]

Thanks, CTE is way more complicated to explain than it is to use. That's unfortunate. In practice it's pretty much automatic for me personally.

But here is a much better video example of CTE (ProOne) in use, can you tell how this young man is struggling

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1HYQjoHjwL4

Well John,

I'd say he had a very good instructor. If I had access to his instructor I bet even I could use CTE for EVERY shot.

Best again,

 

[CJ Wiley]

This does involve some "give and take" and I'll explain what I mean very soon.

CJ said he was producing a video dedicated to TOI.

Man, sure do wish he would post it asap.

John

Happy New Year and I hope you enjoyed your holiday season safe and sound.

From reading these posts it's clear you are getting the idea of the TOI technique. There's a few things I will be able to clear up (in a demonstration), and yes, John, the video will be done asap. :thumbup:

There are certainly variations on how I approach the "pocket zone" (3 Part Pocket System), however, the main principle will be the same (as long as you're trying to master a particular shot). Using the INSIDE{TOI} of the cue ball as a reference point instead of outide or center has several advantages. Knowing why you miss, creating a bigger pocket zone, and creating more natural angles for position are some (and there are a few more).

I look at it like there's a basic "theme" and several "variations", just like in creating musical scores of thousands of notes using the same basic "themes and variations". The key is to actually ELIMINATE some choices so you will know exactly what to do each time.

This seems to be a common misconseption, that the more "choices" you have (as far as what you can do with the cue ball) the better. I'm going to make a very strong case (in specific language) that LESS choices are better. When an amateur looks at the table they often see "choices" that don't really even exist (or shouldn't be considered). When a Champion player looks at a situation they may take extra time to make a decision, however, they usually have two choices, three at the most. The end result is based on simplicity and making the least amount of calculations (as far as spin and speed are concerned).

At first it seems backwards {this, from my experience is typical} that the better the player is the LESS choices he has to make when it comes to ball pocketing and position play. This does involve some "give and take" and I'll explain what I mean in detail in the next couple of days.

John, the TOI VIDEO will be made soon, I had to go out of town for the holidays, however, I'll get on it this week. All things being equal it will be done by this weekend or early next week. ALoha

 

[ENGLISH!]

CJ,

Welcome back! 'We' missed You! I hope your Holidays were Pleasant & Happy!

I spent another 3 hours with TOI today & had a bit of an epiphany.

I can't wait for your next installment with video.

Best Wishes & Regards,

 

[CJ Wiley]

This{technique} is also about steamlining your "choices" so you can focus better

Well for me I found that TOI is just as the title suggests a touch of inside. I kind of feel like it's a jedi mind trick to keep you close to center ball by forcing the shooter to focus on being just a hair outside center.

For me it also forces one to think about the amount of spin needed when I do need to use side spin. Instead of going to an automatic default I consider whether I can get to position with less spin and find that I am a lot of the time.

This is all on the practice table. When I play I am not thinking about it I just do it. FWIW I aim using CTE and then apply the TOI - I also don't consider the 3 part pocket method. Just CTE and TOI.

Even if you use it for a "Jedi mind trick" it will help most players focus and consistency. However, I assure you there's a LOT more than a "trick" to the physical/mental aspect of the TOI Technique.

I understand your point though, and I'm very eager to lay ALL my "TOI Cards" on the table so everyone can see how effective it is. Even if you use your own "version" of the technique it will help you reach a higher level. I suggest , at least at first, to learn and understand by using it {TOI} on every shot. This{technique} is also about steamlining your "choices" so you can focus on the best possible shots/position choices.

TOI teaches things that I can't begin to communicate because it will fill in different "gaps" of knowledge for everyone that puts forth the effort. This ends up being a "short cut" to the next level, however, it will still take up to 3 weeks to see the potential. That's still better than 30 years of playing the "same old way" with little hope for improvement. 'The Game is the Teacher'

 

[JB Cases]

Even if you use it for a "Jedi mind trick" it will help most players focus and consistency. However, I assure you there's a LOT more than a "trick" to the physical/mental aspect of the TOI Technique.

I understand your point though, and I'm very eager to lay ALL my "TOI Cards" on the table so everyone can see how effective it is. Even if you use your own "version" of the technique it will help you reach a higher level. I suggest , at least at first, to learn and understand by using it {TOI} on every shot. This{technique} is also about steamlining your "choices" so you can focus on the best possible shots/position choices.

TOI teaches things that I can't begin to communicate because it will fill in different "gaps" of knowledge for everyone that puts forth the effort. This ends up being a "short cut" to the next level, however, it will still take up to 3 weeks to see the potential. That's still better than 30 years of playing the "same old way" with little hope for improvement. 'The Game is the Teacher'

Thanks CJ. I meant that for me it seems to make stay close to center ball whereas when I try deliberately to hit center ball I am often just a bit off one way or the other.

For example when I set up a stop shot on a line and use center ball then my results are decent but not entirely comfortable. But when I use your TOI then I get better results.

However I am fully aware that I have NOT dedicated myself to your technique for the amount of time you recommend. Primarily because I don't have the time right now to play much at all.

With that in mind I am sure I am not doing it quite as I should. But I did get your latest video and it will be sent to me shortly. When I get that I will be sure to give it more dedicated practice. For now though even in limited use I find it to be very helpful.

 

[CJ Wiley]

Without utilizing and maximizing the margin of error the game is too difficult

Thanks CJ. I meant that for me it seems to make stay close to center ball whereas when I try deliberately to hit center ball I am often just a bit off one way or the other.

For example when I set up a stop shot on a line and use center ball then my results are decent but not entirely comfortable. But when I use your TOI then I get better results.

However I am fully aware that I have NOT dedicated myself to your technique for the amount of time you recommend. Primarily because I don't have the time right now to play much at all.

With that in mind I am sure I am not doing it quite as I should. But I did get your latest video and it will be sent to me shortly. When I get that I will be sure to give it more dedicated practice. For now though even in limited use I find it to be very helpful.

You're certainly on the right track, just being aware that you play great staying close to center and force the ball where you want it {and I'm glad to hear you will get the DVD's soon}.

It's important to practice long straight in shots with center, center/high, center/low to make sure you're hitting the call precisely. When I'm "pinning" the shots I can use the TOI even on straight in shots to hit a certain side of the pocket or to "cheat" the pocket. Precision is required of course.

What the TOI ends up doing is taking the pressure off so you don't "have" to hit it exactly right to make the shot. Anyone that's trying to hit the center "every" time and allowing it to hit either side of the pocket is going to hit an "improvement wall," prematuraly. The same thing applies when attempting to throw a "straight ball" in bowling or hit a "straight ball" in golf.

Without utilizing and maximizing the margin of error the game is too difficult to play at a satisfying level. I certainly "practice what I preach," because if I don't the same thing applies to my game, and I end up playing erratically.

If you have to MAKE yourself do some of these things I refer to OR they're not "natural", I know exactly how you feel. Even though I KNOW certain techniques work I STILL have to make myself do the "right thing". For some reason it "seems natural" (although it's misleading) to play the game the "easiest way" instead of the "most effective way"....and "such is life".

 

[Cornerman]

Been tinkering around with it lately. Most of you remember all the discussions on that monster thread about how to do it, how to aim while doing it, etc. I think I've found a simple way to do it and it works pretty well......for me, anyway.

I'm using the ghost ball (GB) aiming method. So my Shot Line = line through center of CB down through center of the GB. I aim either the left or right edge of my shaft right down the Shot Line............left edge for cut to the right and right edge for cut to the left. This always gives me that TOI and the same aim on every shot. With thick hits I can see an aiming point on the OB......just continue the line through the center of the GB, half ball hit being the easiest (edge of OB). Just stay down and use max speed necessary for the shot and move the tip up/down the vertical axis of the CB as needed for any given shot.

Some of you may already be doing this.

This belongs in the Aiming Forum.

And yes, that's one powerful method that many people use, especially at shallower angles. I think it's part of the Ultimate Aiming System as well as others.

I have found that it starts to break down as the angle increases so, additional steps might be necessary.

Freddie <~~~ and that led to how I currently aim

 

[One Pocket John]

Welcome back CJ.

I know I have a hard time hitting center QB. TOI has solved that problem and along with the 3 part pocket system has improved my shot making ability.

Using the 3 part pocket system, for me, makes the pocket seem to be very large.

I have been working on using the center axis (TOI) high, center and low and changing the angle on the next shot so that I can continue using the center axis on the next shot. etc,etc.

I picked up Tor Lowery's Zero-X Kicking DVD ($8.99), that guy produces one heck of a good instructional DVD. I believe its the first of its kind even though the information presented has been published for decades.

I'm a visual type of person, I have a hard time reading an instruction book and then trying to perform the shots. If I can see a video of something then its much easier for me to duplicate what is presented.

Thanks for all that you share.

John

 

[CJ Wiley]

Many people play their entire lives and don't "Real Eyes" this option is available

Welcome back CJ.

I know I have a hard time hitting center QB. TOI has solved that problem and along with the 3 part pocket system has improved my shot making ability.

Using the 3 part pocket system, for me, makes the pocket seem to be very large.

I have been working on using the center axis (TOI) high, center and low and changing the angle on the next shot so that I can continue using the center axis on the next shot. etc,etc.

I picked up Tor Lowery's Zero-X Kicking DVD ($8.99), that guy produces one heck of a good instructional DVD. I believe its the first of its kind even though the information presented has been published for decades.

I'm a visual type of person, I have a hard time reading an instruction book and then trying to perform the shots. If I can see a video of something then its much easier for me to duplicate what is presented.

Thanks for all that you share.

John

The key is to develop a shot style that you can rely on for most shots. One way of playing is to "let the table dictate the shot," and other is to dominate the table and MAKE the table accept your favorite shot.

I can do the 2nd one with the TOI Technique, and "force" the cue ball where I want it using the same type hit on the cue ball. There are only three important variables in hitting each shot and I like to condense them into ONE. Many people play their entire lives and don't "Real Eyes" this option is even available. 'The Game is the Teacher'

 

[One Pocket John]

Thanks for the reply.

I noticed lately that while trying to learn TOI that I was holding the stick too tightly.

From your DVD I began practicing 10 or 15 racks everyday using just the index finger and thumb to hold the cue while still using TOI. That was a game changer there.

I practice 5 days a week for 6 to 9 hours a day totally focused on the fundementals as you present them on your 1st and 2nd DVD. And yeah, I even do the excercises. Dont have a shotput so I use a bowling ball. :smile: j/k

I still cant get over the 3 part pocket system. I wish I would have known about this back in '63 when I started playing. I might have gone on to win the ESPN Challenge.

Have a good day.

John

 

[ENGLISH!]

You're certainly on the right track, just being aware that you play great staying close to center and force the ball where you want it {and I'm glad to hear you will get the DVD's soon}.

It's important to practice long straight in shots with center, center/high, center/low to make sure you're hitting the call precisely. When I'm "pinning" the shots I can use the TOI even on straight in shots to hit a certain side of the pocket or to "cheat" the pocket. Precision is required of course.

What the TOI ends up doing is taking the pressure off so you don't "have" to hit it exactly right to make the shot. Anyone that's trying to hit the center "every" time and allowing it to hit either side of the pocket is going to hit an "improvement wall," prematuraly. The same thing applies when attempting to throw a "straight ball" in bowling or hit a "straight ball" in golf.

Without utilizing and maximizing the margin of error the game is too difficult to play at a satisfying level. I certainly "practice what I preach," because if I don't the same thing applies to my game, and I end up playing erratically.

If you have to MAKE yourself do some of these things I refer to OR they're not "natural", I know exactly how you feel. Even though I KNOW certain techniques work I STILL have to make myself do the "right thing". For some reason it "seems natural" (although it's misleading) to play the game the "easiest way" instead of the "most effective way"....and "such is life".

Well Stated.

I'm Glad you're back,