table adjustments/scratching on balls?

blackflagsailor

blackflagsailor

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I just got a vintage Valley coin pool table. I'm not sure the year. My best guess is 60s-70s. It is my favorite model they have produced. My dad had the exactly same model when I was a kid.

The table is an 8 foot table, with a 44" x 88" playing surface, 1" thick, solid single piece slate. The cue ball return will work with both magnetic and over-sized cue balls. (However, I have removed the ball trap, put the bolts back into their holes, now use the table like a ball return table, allowing me to use standard Aramith cue balls on the table)

I love this table. My plans are to have it restored. I know it's no antique Brunswick, but this it the table I like. I want to see about having the laminate redone. I'd also like to have mother of pearl diamond inlays installed instead of the screen printed ones that normally come on valleys. I just think it'll look nicer IMO. I also want to put Simonis 860HR on it.

Right now the table is in pretty rough cosmetic shape. There is not of section of laminate that isn't chipped. One of the metal corners is broken off from it's piece that screws into the top rail, leaving the entire corner loose. I think this could be fixed possibly with JB wield, though I would be afraid to attempt it myself. I've never used that stuff. The bottom section of wood where the triangle storage is located, top of the ball return box, is broken off. There is some plywood damaged inside the table. (I think somebody got something important stuck in the table)

However, even will all this, the cabinet seems very solid still with the exception of the top rails. The top rails seem very screwy. The head rail seems to be sagging under the weight of the slate. I leveled the table, by placing a level on the slate. Maybe I should have placed it on the top rails? After I leveled the cabinet, I went around and measured the distance from the floor to the underside of the cabinet. It seems that the head end of the table is higher. The balls see to roll true. However, of the foot end of the table, they are getting pinched between the slate and the gully. The slate does not sit on any shims as I've seen many tables do.

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Okay I'm not sure if this could be related to the table or not so I am including it here.

It seems that some of my Aramith balls are getting scratched. I thought these things were tough. Whats the deal? I hate to spend the kind of money and have them get dings and scratches. I went though and cleaned the entire table before putting the slate back on. This included vacuuming the cabinet and subway, and then I washing out the subway gully system with a damp rag. I then covered all the staples, nails, screws, and the metal tracking at the cue ball drop with black electrical tape to create a soft bumper or padding.

I have several theories; I try to chalk no more then every 5 shots. I rarely misscue. Could I be cuing the ball wrong? Would this scratch an Aramith ball?

Second; I wonder of when they get stuck in the two foot corner pockets, if the slate itself is causing the scratches?

Third. The right corner foot pocket has a different pocket molding then the rest of the table. It looks like a standard replacement that can be ordered from any billiard supply. It hasn't been trimmed properly and there is a piece of it that hangs out along the side of the covered foot rail maybe 1/4 of an inch.

Last; On my dads table, the pocket moldings go all the way down into the gully boots. On this one, there is about a centimeter gap, leaving the sharp edge of the gully boot exposed.

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Any ideas on the table issues or the scratch?

I'll get some photos in a sec here...
 
These were taken before I cleaned the inside out.

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First, the slate is 7/8" thick, not 1":grin: Second, the balls getting caught in the pockets at the bottom side of the slate is from to much glue build up under the slate at the pocket shelf. Third, the balls are getting scratched up from the screw heads being used to hold the pocket gully boots in place.

Glen
 
Glenn, I'll check the glue on the underside of the slate. Whoever put the cloth on last used duct tape to hold the cloth down. They did a terrible job on the table. I think when the time comes I'll give Leo a call and see if he'll put Simonis 860HR on. But for now...

They usually get stuck when the ball hangs towards the outsides of the gully and not in the center track. As for the screws; I've covered all screws, nails, and staples with electrical tape to protect them from contact the raw metal before I put the slate back on. However, they still seem to get scratches.

I wonder what else I could do to prevent the scratches? One observation I did make; it's only the cue balls that seem to be getting scratches.

As a side note, I've kept the cloth clean and covered when not in play.
 
Here are two pics of the head top rail, showing what I am worried about.

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Here is the metal corner that is broken:

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Creative use of electical tape, but will it work? What would be a better idea?

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I don't remember my dad's table having such and open gap between the bottom of the pocket liner and the top of the gully boot.

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That's pretty much normal for that year and age of the Valley table, but the chipped of laminate on the top rails near the side pockets is because of so much glue build up on the sides of the slate, causing the slate to grab the laminate as it's being taken out of the cabinet.
 
Glenn, that's what I was thinking too. I am really wondering about having new walnut laminate and new cloth put on the table. This would also give the chance to remove all the old glue from the slate.
 
Did a little work on the table today.


The cue cabinet was damaged.

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I removed it and took off the old wood.

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Anyway, back on topic. Can anyone tell me about my questions at the top of this topic?
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The cue ball return showed signs of having a top originally.

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So I made a new one with the good old band saw.

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you mentioned measuring from the floor up in your opening post and getting different heights. The pics look like the table is in a garage (nothing wrong with that), but garage floors usually have a slight pitch on the floor so they will drain outside.
 
Haven't been able to get that slate up to clean up the excess glue. Just too heavy to move by myself.

Bought a new cheap set of balls for $25 to try and see if I can problem solve the scratches. Here's where things get weird; I've been using the chinese made balls for three days now and they don't have any scratches other than scuffs from the cue. The scratches that have occurred on my Aramith balls can be felt with my finger nail. These things are supposed to be the toughest in the industry, so why are the cheap chinese made balls out-lasting them?
 
On the gully boot/pocket liner gap - when you replace them get the 4" liners.
Can't tell from the pics but those may be 3" liners.
 
Dartman said:
On the gully boot/pocket liner gap - when you replace them get the 4" liners.
Can't tell from the pics but those may be 3" liners.
Click to expand...

That's what I was thinking too. Interestingly though; I cut some black felt and lined the old pocket liners with it till the new ones arrive. This could be one of the issues as I did this weeks ago and the new balls haven't scratched yet save for some minor scuffing from the cue sticks/cue ball impact.

P.S. I HAVE to order one or your Keno boards... When I have the $$. I owe a dear friend in Russia for a set of Russian balls that I must pay for first.
 
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Restoring a vintage Valley coin table

I have asked the admin to move my other thread to the 'Talk To A Mechanic' section and possibly merge this thread with it. Don't know if they can do that kind of thing but I don't wish to double post on here.

I am restoring a late 60's model Valley coin pool table. I have more details on the following topic:

Restoring a vintage Valley coin table
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=266685

In short, my plan is to repair the damage to the table. Refinish it with new formica laminate. Clean up and repair the mechanics and ball tracks. Reinforce the slate support. Re-cloth it with Simonis 860 HR. Install new Ridgeback rails. And finally I want to install mother of pearl diamond inlays to replace the standard screen printed diamonds.

Right now I'm doing a lot of research on how to do a lot of this stuff. Replacing the formica seems a bit tricky. A lot of people just re-laminate over the existing laminate. I don't want to go that route. I think it'll turn out much better removing the old and putting new formica on. There are some tricky spots though. Also, it seems the usual way is to chip it off with a chisel or flat putty knife. While it works, not only will this take forever, but I could end up gouging the cabinet quite a bit. There must be a better way. Anyone with some ideas or knowledge to share on formica work?




So I've found two ok-ish ideas doing some research. The first way is to use a heat gun and heat up the laminate and pull it apart with a flat blade tool (paint scrapper, putty knife). The second is to use either contact cement thinner or acetone, letting it soften the glue and pulling it up much the same way as the use of heat. The goal is to get it up without damaging the cabinet, which I believe is made of plywood. So which is a better way to go? Are there better ideas?
 
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