Table Difficulty Factor (TDF) for measuring table "toughness"

dr_dave

Instructional Author
Gold Member
Silver Member
9' Gold Crown 4
4 3/8" mouth
3.9" throat
1.5" shelf depth
Diamond pocket angles

1.10 TDF = Tough
When I plug your measurements into the online TDF calculator, I get:

Table Size Factor:1.00
Pocket Size Factor:1.05
Pocket Angle Factor:0.98
Pocket Shelf Factor:0.98
Table Difficulty Factor:1.01

Please check your numbers again and let me know if there are any errors. Then I'll add your info to the list.

Thanks,
Dave
 

bignick31985

Life Long Learner
Silver Member
When I plug your measurements into the online TDF calculator, I get:

Table Size Factor:1.00
Pocket Size Factor:1.05
Pocket Angle Factor:0.98
Pocket Shelf Factor:0.98
Table Difficulty Factor:1.01

Please check your numbers again and let me know if there are any errors. Then I'll add your info to the list.

Thanks,
Dave
I'll double check. I used the Excel sheet. May have punched in an incorrect number.

* I punched in again, erring on the larger size of the spectrum and got 1.05 on the spreadsheet. Numbers used were Table Size - 3, Pocket Size - 10, Pocket Angles - 7, and Pocket Shelf - 2.

I believe I erred on the 1.5-1.75" shelf depth. Redoing it I used the 1.25"-1.5" shelf depth. And the range of 142-143 pocket angles.

All that said if I use the quick calc I get the same thing you got Dr. dave. We'll just go with that, not a quantifiable difference in play toughness, lol. Awesome calculator btw!
 
Last edited:

dr_dave

Instructional Author
Gold Member
Silver Member
I'll double check. I used the Excel sheet. May have punched in an incorrect number.

* I punched in again, erring on the larger size of the spectrum and got 1.05 on the spreadsheet. Numbers used were Table Size - 3, Pocket Size - 10, Pocket Angles - 7, and Pocket Shelf - 2.

I believe I erred on the 1.5-1.75" shelf depth. Redoing it I used the 1.25"-1.5" shelf depth. And the range of 142-143 pocket angles.

All that said if I use the quick calc I get the same thing you got Dr. dave. We'll just go with that, not a quantifiable difference in play toughness, lol. Awesome calculator btw!
I've added your info to the list.

Thanks for posting.
 

dr_dave

Instructional Author
Gold Member
Silver Member
Here's the latest:

Calculate your Table Difficulty Factor (TDF) to determine how tough it plays in comparison to other tables. Only three pocket measurements are required, and you can use the online mobile-friendly TDF calculator (created by "Isaac") or the TDF Excel spreadsheet calculator to get your results.

username - table size, pocket mouth size, mouth-throat difference, shelf depth - TDF (table description)
Vahmurka - 12':1.25, 7.2cm:1.55, 125deg:0.97, 25mm:0.98 - 1.84 (12ft Russian pyramid table)
Side Pocket - 10':1.10, 4 1/4":1.10, 1 1/4":1.14, 2 1/4":1.07 - 1.48 (10' 1920-1925 Brunswick, modified)
CaptiveBred - 10':1.10, 4 1/8":1.15, >143.5deg:1.14, 1 1/2":0.99 - 1.43 (10' Brunswick Anniversary modified)
Bob Dixon - 9':1.00, 4":1.20, 145deg:1.14, 1 5/8":1.00 - 1.37 (Pool Sharks, Las Vegas, money table, Red Diamond Pro-Am, modified)
gregcantrall - 10':1.10, 4":1.20, 5/8":1.00, 1 1/2":0.99 - 1.31 (10 foot Diamond in the Sun City West, AZ Rec Center)
Ricky Sy - 9':1.00, 3 3/4":1.31, 1/4":0.97, 5/8":0.98 - 1.25 (money table at Hard Times in Bellflower, CA)
acedonkeyace - 9":1.00, 4":1.20, 1/2":0.99, 2":1.03 - 1.22 (gamble table at sidePocket in Largo, FL)
ChrisinNC - 10':1.1, 4 1/4":1.1, 11/16":1.02, 1 5/16":0.99 - 1.22 (shimmed 10' Gabriel Sentinel, modified, at Family Billiards in Boone, NC)
Bonus Ball - 9':1.00, 3 7/8":1.25, 1/8":0.97, 3/4":0.98 - 1.19 (Bonus Ball table)
Marc Vidal - 9':1.00, 4 1/8":1.15, 7/16":1.05, 1":0.98 - 1.18 (shimmed Brunswick Tournament Edition)
chevybob20 - 9':1.00, 4 1/8":1.15, 7/8":1.05, 1":0.98 - 1.18 (modified Centennial)
Baxter - 9':1.00, 4 1/4":1.10, 143deg:1.09, 1 1/8":0.98 - 1.18 (modified AMF Grand Prix)
Qaddiction - 9':1.00, 4 1/8":1.15, 3/4":1.02, 1 3/8":0.99 - 1.16 (Diamond)
angluse - 8'+: 0.95, 3 13/16":1.25, 9/16":1.00, 7/8":0.98 - 1.16 (modified 1935 Brunswick Challenger)
Tom Cruise - 9':1.00, 4":1.20, 1/8":0.97, 1 3/8":0.99 - 1.15 (Golden West)
ChrisinNC - 10':1.1, 4 3/8":1.05, 11/16":1.02, 1 5/16":0.98 - 1.15 (original 10' Gabriel Sentinel, modified, at Family Billiards in Boone, NC)
rexus31 - 9':1.00, 4":1.20, 3/8":0.98, 1":0.98 - 1.15 (mid to late 50's AMF Commercial Model similar to a Brunswick Anniversary/Sport King)
FatBoy - 9':1.00, 4":1.20, 1/4":0.97, 1":0.98 - 1.14 (modified GC)
TATE - 9':1.00, 4":1.20, 1/4":0.97, 7/8":0.98 - 1.14 (modified GC)
Mikjary - 9'-1.00, 4":1.15, 9/16":1.00, 1 5/16":0.98 - 1.13 (Brunswick Centurion)
ChrisinNC - 9':1.0, 4 1/8":1.15, 5/8":1.0, 1 1/4":0.98 - 1.13 (tightest Gabriel's Signature Pro, modified, at Family Billiards in Boone, NC - Table 7)
Cardigan Kid - 10'-1.10, 4.5":1.00, 0.88":1.04, 1.5":0.98 - 1.12 (GC from Steinway Billiards)
Ralph Kramden - 9':1.0, 4 5/16":1.05, 1":1.07, 1 3/4":1.00 - 1.12 (1962 GC I)
pocket - 9':1.00 - 4 3/16":1.10, 7/16":0.99, 1 7/8":1.03 - 1.12 (unknown)
Justaneng - 8':0.90 - 4":1.20, 7/8":1.05, 1 1/2":0.99 - 1.12 (Olhausen)
kanzzo - 9':1.00, 10.7 cm:1.10, 1.7 cm:1.02, 2.7 cm:0.98 - 1.10 (GC V tournament edition)
ShaneVanNothin - 9':1.00, 4 1/4":1.10, 1":0.97, 2":1.03 - 1.10 (Modified Brunswick)
Neil - 7':0.85, 4 1/8":1.15, 1 1/4":1.14, 1 3/8":0.99 - 1.10 (modified Valley "bar box")
MahnaMahna - 10':1.10, 5 1/2":0.85, 2":1.09, 2 1/2": 1.07 - 1.09 (snooker table poorly converted into a pool table)
tjlmbklr - 8'+:0.95, 4":1.15, 141deg:1.02, 1 1/4":0.98 - 1.09 (unknown, maybe homemade or a kit table)
Cardigan Kid - 9':1.00, 4 1/4":1.10, 0.45":0.99, 1 5/16":0.99 - 1.08 (GC II)
MSchaffer - 9':1.00, 4 7/16:1.00, 15/16":1.07, 1 5/8":1.00 - 1.07 (GC II, modified)
cigardave - 9':1.00, 4 1/2":1.00, 1":1.07, 1 3/4":1.00 - 1.07 (typical Pro-Cut Diamond)
peppersauce - 9':1.00, 4 1/4":1.10, 3/8":0.98, 1 1/4":0.98 - 1.06 (GC 3)
Side Pocket - 10':1.10, 4 7/8":0.91, 1":1.07, 1 1/2":0.98 - 1.05 (10' 1920-1925 Brunswick)
Pool Hustler - 9':1.00, 4 1/4":1.10, 1/4":0.97, 15/16":0.98 - 1.05 (modified GC)
JC - 9':1.00 - 4 7/16":1.00, 143deg:1.07, 1 3/8":0.98 - 1.05 (modified GC III)
Banger - 9':1.00, 4 1/2":1.00, 7/8":1.04, 1 3/4":1.00 - 1.04 (modified GC III)
Jimmorrison - 7':0.85, 3 7/8":1.25, 7/16":0.99, 3/4":0.98 - 1.03 (modified Ruxton)
SloMoHolic - 9':1.00, 4 1/2":1.00, 7/8":1.04, 1 3/8":0.98 - 1.02 (2005 Red Diamond Pro with ProCut pockets)
CoreyClark - 9':1.00, 5":0.91, 1":1.07, 2 1/8":1.05 - 1.02 (GC I)
bignick31985 - 9':1.00, 4 3/8":1.05, 0.475":0.98, 1.5":0.98 - 1.01 (GC IV)
"standard" table - 9':1.00, 4 7/16":1.00, 9/16":1.00, 1 5/8":1.00 - 1.00 (average-difficulty table)
kanzzo - 9':1.00, 11.4 cm:1.00, 1.7 cm:1.02, 3.3 cm:0.98 - 1.00 (GC V tournament edition)
coxcol15 - 7':0.85, 4.25":1.10, 1":1.09, 1.25":0.98 - 1.00 (Valley barbox w/ Ridgeback pro cuts)
Goldball - 8':0.90, 12.2cm:0.91, 4cm:1.14, 5.4cm:1.07 - 1.00 (Heiron & Smith)
dr_dave - 9':1.00, 5": 0.91, 1 1/8":1.10, 1 3/8":0.99 - 0.99 (old GC II at MatchUps, Fort Collins)
Call_me_Tom - 7':0.85, 4":1.20, 1/2":0.99, 1":0.98 - 0.99 (Valley bar box with Penguin Pro rails)
MVPCues - 9':1.00, 4 1/2":1.00, 1/2":0.98, 1 5/8":1.00 - 0.98 (Antique Brunswick Jefferson, circa 1900)
oldschool1478 - 9':1.00, 4 1/2":1.00, 0.625":1.00, 1.5":0.98 - 0.98 (updated Red Badge Diamond Pro)
freds - 8'+: 0.95, 4.9":0.91, 1.1":1.1, 1.8" 1.03 - 0.98 (Gandy Big G, oversized 8)
Cardigan Kid - 9':1.00, 4 1/2":1.00, 3/4":1.02, 1 1/16":0.95 - 0.97 (GC III Table 7 at Premium Billiards, Syracuse, modified w/ Artemis cushions)
wigglybridge - 9':1.00, 4 1/2":1.00, 5/8":1.00, 1 1/2": 0.98 - 0.98 (GC 1.5, rails rebuilt & cushions replaced)
BryanB - 9':1.00, 4 1/2":1.00, 3/4":1.02, 1 1/4":0.95 - 0.97 (1931 Brunswick with double shimmed pockets)
Poolmanis - 9':1.00, 10.9cm:1.05, 1cm:0.97, 3.1cm:0.95 - 0.97 (modified SAM)
Vahmurka - 9':1.0, 12.5cm:0.91, 20mm:1.04, 45mm:1.03 - 0.97 (Brunswick Metro)
mamics - 9':1.00, 4 11/16":0.95, 143deg:1.07, 1 3/16":0.95 - 0.97 (no-name "Chinese Cheapie" with Uylin cushions)
dzcues - 9':1.00, 4 7/8":0.91, 11/16":1.02, 1 15/16":1.03 - 0.96 (typical League-Cut Diamond)
jviss - 9’:1.00, 4.98”:0.91, 0.76”:1.04, 1.625”:1.00 - 0.95 (GC I)
logical - 9':1.00, 5": 0.91, 7/8":1.04, 1 3/4":1.00 - 0.95 (GC II)
dr_dave - 9':1.00, 5": 0.91, 1":1.07, 1 1/5":0.98 - 0.95 (Olhausen purchased from Robert Byrne)
dzcues - 9':1.00, 5":0.91, 15/16":1.07, 1 1/2":0.98 - 0.95 (Gandy Big G)
Sloppy Pockets - 8'+:0.95, 5":0.91, 1 1/8":1.10, 1 3/4":1.00 - 0.95 (A.E. Schmidt)
44Runner - 8'+/-:0.925, 4 3/8":1.05, 3/4":1.02, 1":0.95 - 0.94 (8' Diamond Pro-Am - blue label)
Corwyn_8 - 9':1.00, 4 3/4":0.95, 1 3/4":1.02, 1 1/4":0.95 - 0.92 (Gandy Winchester)
beetle - 9':1.00, 13.1cm:0.88, 2.2cm:1.03, 4.3cm:1.00 - 0.91 (Olhausen York)
frigopie - 9':1.00, 11.5cm:0.95, 138.7deg:0.98, 3.5cm:0.98 - 0.91 (Eurotour Dynamic III)
12squared - 9':1.00, 4 7/8":0.91, 3/4":1.02, 1 1/2":0.98 - 0.91 (GC home table)
iusedtoberich - 9':1.00, 5 1/8":0.88, 1":1.05, 1 1/2":0.97 - 0.90 (GC)
MSchaffer - 9':1.00, 5 1/8":0.88, 3/4":1.01, 1 3/4":1.00 - 0.89 (GC II)
mfinkelstein3 - 9':1.00, 5 1/8":0.88, 7/8":1.03, 1 1/2": 0.97 - 0.88 (GC III)
StraightPoolIU - 9':1.00, 4 7/8":0.91, 3/4":1.02, 1 1/4":0.95 - 0.88 (GC I)
Vahmurka - 9':1.00, 5 1/8":0.88, 7/8":1.03, 1 1/2": 0.97 - 0.88 (GC)
Dopc - 8':0.90, 4 1/2":1.00, 3/4":1.02, 1 1/4":0.95 - 0.87 (8' Connelly Kayenta)
SloMoHolic - 8':0.90, 4 3/4":0.95, 3/4":1.02, 1 5/8":1.00 - 0.87 (old 8' Brunswick Medalist league table)
RobMan - 9':1.0, 5": 0.88, 3/4":1.01, 1.5":0.97 - 0.86 (GC)
sniggihs - 7':0.85, 4 1/2":1.00, 5/8":1.00, 1 3/4":1.00 - 0.85 (7’ Diamond - Blue Label)
SloMoHolic - 8'+:0.95, 4 7/8":0.91, 7/8":1.04, 1 1/4":0.95 - 0.85 (Brunswick Medalist at Stardust Club in Manchaca, TX)
buckshotshoey - 8':0.90, 4 3/4":0.95, 3/4":1.02, 1 1/2":0.98 - 0.85 (American Heritage "Independence")
nateobot - 7':0.85, 4 3/8":1.05, 1/2":0.95, 1 3/4":1.00 - 0.85 (custom-made)
angluse - 8'+: 0.95, 4 5/8":0.95, 7/16":0.98, 1 3/16":0.95 - 0.84 (1935 Brunswick Challenger)
dr_dave - 8':0.90, 4 3/4":0.95, 5/8":1.00, 1 3/8":0.98 - 0.84 (8' Connelly home table)
BRussell - 8':0.90, 5":0.91, 13/16":1.04, 1 1/2":0.98 - 0.83 (8' Olhausen)
Lovepool - 9':1.00, 13cm:0.88, 1cm:0.96, 3.5cm:0.97 - 0.82 (home table)
jtaylor996 - 7':0.85, 5 1/8":0.88, 146deg:1.09, 1.51":1.00 - 0.82 (7' Legacy home table)
Mooneye - 7':0.85, 4 7/8":0.91, 3/4":1.02, 1 5/8":1.00 - 0.79 (7' Brunswick "Ranchero")
SloMoHolic - 6':0.85, 4 1/2":1.00, 0":0.95, 5/8":0.95 - 0.77 (old 6' Valley "bar box")
dzcues - 7':0.85, 4 1/2":1.00, 0":0.95, 1/2":0.95 - 0.77 (7' Valley "bar box")
dr_dave - 7':0.85, 4 1/2":1.00, 0":0.95, 3/4":0.95 - 0.77 (7' Valley "bar box" at West End, Fort Collins)
 

Gegonsauralanel

New member
Here's the latest:

Calculate your Table Difficulty Factor (TDF) to determine how tough it plays in comparison to other tables. Only three pocket measurements are required, and you can use the online mobile-friendly TDF calculator (created by "Isaac") or the TDF Excel spreadsheet calculator to get your results.

username - table size, pocket mouth size, mouth-throat difference, shelf depth - TDF (table description)
Vahmurka - 12':1.25, 7.2cm:1.55, 125deg:0.97, 25mm:0.98 - 1.84 (12ft Russian pyramid table)
Side Pocket - 10':1.10, 4 1/4":1.10, 1 1/4":1.14, 2 1/4":1.07 - 1.48 (10' 1920-1925 Brunswick, modified)
CaptiveBred - 10':1.10, 4 1/8":1.15, >143.5deg:1.14, 1 1/2":0.99 - 1.43 (10' Brunswick Anniversary modified)
Bob Dixon - 9':1.00, 4":1.20, 145deg:1.14, 1 5/8":1.00 - 1.37 (Pool Sharks, Las Vegas, money table, Red Diamond Pro-Am, modified)
gregcantrall - 10':1.10, 4":1.20, 5/8":1.00, 1 1/2":0.99 - 1.31 (10 foot Diamond in the Sun City West, AZ Rec Center)
Ricky Sy - 9':1.00, 3 3/4":1.31, 1/4":0.97, 5/8":0.98 - 1.25 (money table at Hard Times in Bellflower, CA)
acedonkeyace - 9":1.00, 4":1.20, 1/2":0.99, 2":1.03 - 1.22 (gamble table at sidePocket in Largo, FL)
ChrisinNC - 10':1.1, 4 1/4":1.1, 11/16":1.02, 1 5/16":0.99 - 1.22 (shimmed 10' Gabriel Sentinel, modified, at Family Billiards in Boone, NC)
Bonus Ball - 9':1.00, 3 7/8":1.25, 1/8":0.97, 3/4":0.98 - 1.19 (Bonus Ball table)
Marc Vidal - 9':1.00, 4 1/8":1.15, 7/16":1.05, 1":0.98 - 1.18 (shimmed Brunswick Tournament Edition)
chevybob20 - 9':1.00, 4 1/8":1.15, 7/8":1.05, 1":0.98 - 1.18 (modified Centennial)
Baxter - 9':1.00, 4 1/4":1.10, 143deg:1.09, 1 1/8":0.98 - 1.18 (modified AMF Grand Prix)
Qaddiction - 9':1.00, 4 1/8":1.15, 3/4":1.02, 1 3/8":0.99 - 1.16 (Diamond)
angluse - 8'+: 0.95, 3 13/16":1.25, 9/16":1.00, 7/8":0.98 - 1.16 (modified 1935 Brunswick Challenger)
Tom Cruise - 9':1.00, 4":1.20, 1/8":0.97, 1 3/8":0.99 - 1.15 (Golden West)
ChrisinNC - 10':1.1, 4 3/8":1.05, 11/16":1.02, 1 5/16":0.98 - 1.15 (original 10' Gabriel Sentinel, modified, at Family Billiards in Boone, NC)
rexus31 - 9':1.00, 4":1.20, 3/8":0.98, 1":0.98 - 1.15 (mid to late 50's AMF Commercial Model similar to a Brunswick Anniversary/Sport King)
FatBoy - 9':1.00, 4":1.20, 1/4":0.97, 1":0.98 - 1.14 (modified GC)
TATE - 9':1.00, 4":1.20, 1/4":0.97, 7/8":0.98 - 1.14 (modified GC)
Mikjary - 9'-1.00, 4":1.15, 9/16":1.00, 1 5/16":0.98 - 1.13 (Brunswick Centurion)
ChrisinNC - 9':1.0, 4 1/8":1.15, 5/8":1.0, 1 1/4":0.98 - 1.13 (tightest Gabriel's Signature Pro, modified, at Family Billiards in Boone, NC - Table 7)
Cardigan Kid - 10'-1.10, 4.5":1.00, 0.88":1.04, 1.5":0.98 - 1.12 (GC from Steinway Billiards)
Ralph Kramden - 9':1.0, 4 5/16":1.05, 1":1.07, 1 3/4":1.00 - 1.12 (1962 GC I)
pocket - 9':1.00 - 4 3/16":1.10, 7/16":0.99, 1 7/8":1.03 - 1.12 (unknown)
Justaneng - 8':0.90 - 4":1.20, 7/8":1.05, 1 1/2":0.99 - 1.12 (Olhausen)
kanzzo - 9':1.00, 10.7 cm:1.10, 1.7 cm:1.02, 2.7 cm:0.98 - 1.10 (GC V tournament edition)
ShaneVanNothin - 9':1.00, 4 1/4":1.10, 1":0.97, 2":1.03 - 1.10 (Modified Brunswick)
Neil - 7':0.85, 4 1/8":1.15, 1 1/4":1.14, 1 3/8":0.99 - 1.10 (modified Valley "bar box")
MahnaMahna - 10':1.10, 5 1/2":0.85, 2":1.09, 2 1/2": 1.07 - 1.09 (snooker table poorly converted into a pool table)
tjlmbklr - 8'+:0.95, 4":1.15, 141deg:1.02, 1 1/4":0.98 - 1.09 (unknown, maybe homemade or a kit table)
Cardigan Kid - 9':1.00, 4 1/4":1.10, 0.45":0.99, 1 5/16":0.99 - 1.08 (GC II)
MSchaffer - 9':1.00, 4 7/16:1.00, 15/16":1.07, 1 5/8":1.00 - 1.07 (GC II, modified)
cigardave - 9':1.00, 4 1/2":1.00, 1":1.07, 1 3/4":1.00 - 1.07 (typical Pro-Cut Diamond)
peppersauce - 9':1.00, 4 1/4":1.10, 3/8":0.98, 1 1/4":0.98 - 1.06 (GC 3)
Side Pocket - 10':1.10, 4 7/8":0.91, 1":1.07, 1 1/2":0.98 - 1.05 (10' 1920-1925 Brunswick)
Pool Hustler - 9':1.00, 4 1/4":1.10, 1/4":0.97, 15/16":0.98 - 1.05 (modified GC)
JC - 9':1.00 - 4 7/16":1.00, 143deg:1.07, 1 3/8":0.98 - 1.05 (modified GC III)
Banger - 9':1.00, 4 1/2":1.00, 7/8":1.04, 1 3/4":1.00 - 1.04 (modified GC III)
Jimmorrison - 7':0.85, 3 7/8":1.25, 7/16":0.99, 3/4":0.98 - 1.03 (modified Ruxton)
SloMoHolic - 9':1.00, 4 1/2":1.00, 7/8":1.04, 1 3/8":0.98 - 1.02 (2005 Red Diamond Pro with ProCut pockets)
CoreyClark - 9':1.00, 5":0.91, 1":1.07, 2 1/8":1.05 - 1.02 (GC I)
bignick31985 - 9':1.00, 4 3/8":1.05, 0.475":0.98, 1.5":0.98 - 1.01 (GC IV)
"standard" table - 9':1.00, 4 7/16":1.00, 9/16":1.00, 1 5/8":1.00 - 1.00 (average-difficulty table)
kanzzo - 9':1.00, 11.4 cm:1.00, 1.7 cm:1.02, 3.3 cm:0.98 - 1.00 (GC V tournament edition)
coxcol15 - 7':0.85, 4.25":1.10, 1":1.09, 1.25":0.98 - 1.00 (Valley barbox w/ Ridgeback pro cuts)
Goldball - 8':0.90, 12.2cm:0.91, 4cm:1.14, 5.4cm:1.07 - 1.00 (Heiron & Smith)
dr_dave - 9':1.00, 5": 0.91, 1 1/8":1.10, 1 3/8":0.99 - 0.99 (old GC II at MatchUps, Fort Collins)
Call_me_Tom - 7':0.85, 4":1.20, 1/2":0.99, 1":0.98 - 0.99 (Valley bar box with Penguin Pro rails)
MVPCues - 9':1.00, 4 1/2":1.00, 1/2":0.98, 1 5/8":1.00 - 0.98 (Antique Brunswick Jefferson, circa 1900)
oldschool1478 - 9':1.00, 4 1/2":1.00, 0.625":1.00, 1.5":0.98 - 0.98 (updated Red Badge Diamond Pro)
freds - 8'+: 0.95, 4.9":0.91, 1.1":1.1, 1.8" 1.03 - 0.98 (Gandy Big G, oversized 8)
Cardigan Kid - 9':1.00, 4 1/2":1.00, 3/4":1.02, 1 1/16":0.95 - 0.97 (GC III Table 7 at Premium Billiards, Syracuse, modified w/ Artemis cushions)
wigglybridge - 9':1.00, 4 1/2":1.00, 5/8":1.00, 1 1/2": 0.98 - 0.98 (GC 1.5, rails rebuilt & cushions replaced)
BryanB - 9':1.00, 4 1/2":1.00, 3/4":1.02, 1 1/4":0.95 - 0.97 (1931 Brunswick with double shimmed pockets)
Poolmanis - 9':1.00, 10.9cm:1.05, 1cm:0.97, 3.1cm:0.95 - 0.97 (modified SAM)
Vahmurka - 9':1.0, 12.5cm:0.91, 20mm:1.04, 45mm:1.03 - 0.97 (Brunswick Metro)
mamics - 9':1.00, 4 11/16":0.95, 143deg:1.07, 1 3/16":0.95 - 0.97 (no-name "Chinese Cheapie" with Uylin cushions)
dzcues - 9':1.00, 4 7/8":0.91, 11/16":1.02, 1 15/16":1.03 - 0.96 (typical League-Cut Diamond)
jviss - 9’:1.00, 4.98”:0.91, 0.76”:1.04, 1.625”:1.00 - 0.95 (GC I)
logical - 9':1.00, 5": 0.91, 7/8":1.04, 1 3/4":1.00 - 0.95 (GC II)
dr_dave - 9':1.00, 5": 0.91, 1":1.07, 1 1/5":0.98 - 0.95 (Olhausen purchased from Robert Byrne)
dzcues - 9':1.00, 5":0.91, 15/16":1.07, 1 1/2":0.98 - 0.95 (Gandy Big G)
Sloppy Pockets - 8'+:0.95, 5":0.91, 1 1/8":1.10, 1 3/4":1.00 - 0.95 (A.E. Schmidt)
44Runner - 8'+/-:0.925, 4 3/8":1.05, 3/4":1.02, 1":0.95 - 0.94 (8' Diamond Pro-Am - blue label)
Corwyn_8 - 9':1.00, 4 3/4":0.95, 1 3/4":1.02, 1 1/4":0.95 - 0.92 (Gandy Winchester)
beetle - 9':1.00, 13.1cm:0.88, 2.2cm:1.03, 4.3cm:1.00 - 0.91 (Olhausen York)
frigopie - 9':1.00, 11.5cm:0.95, 138.7deg:0.98, 3.5cm:0.98 - 0.91 (Eurotour Dynamic III)
12squared - 9':1.00, 4 7/8":0.91, 3/4":1.02, 1 1/2":0.98 - 0.91 (GC home table)
iusedtoberich - 9':1.00, 5 1/8":0.88, 1":1.05, 1 1/2":0.97 - 0.90 (GC)
MSchaffer - 9':1.00, 5 1/8":0.88, 3/4":1.01, 1 3/4":1.00 - 0.89 (GC II)
mfinkelstein3 - 9':1.00, 5 1/8":0.88, 7/8":1.03, 1 1/2": 0.97 - 0.88 (GC III)
StraightPoolIU - 9':1.00, 4 7/8":0.91, 3/4":1.02, 1 1/4":0.95 - 0.88 (GC I)
Vahmurka - 9':1.00, 5 1/8":0.88, 7/8":1.03, 1 1/2": 0.97 - 0.88 (GC)
Dopc - 8':0.90, 4 1/2":1.00, 3/4":1.02, 1 1/4":0.95 - 0.87 (8' Connelly Kayenta)
SloMoHolic - 8':0.90, 4 3/4":0.95, 3/4":1.02, 1 5/8":1.00 - 0.87 (old 8' Brunswick Medalist league table)
RobMan - 9':1.0, 5": 0.88, 3/4":1.01, 1.5":0.97 - 0.86 (GC)
sniggihs - 7':0.85, 4 1/2":1.00, 5/8":1.00, 1 3/4":1.00 - 0.85 (7’ Diamond - Blue Label)
SloMoHolic - 8'+:0.95, 4 7/8":0.91, 7/8":1.04, 1 1/4":0.95 - 0.85 (Brunswick Medalist at Stardust Club in Manchaca, TX)
buckshotshoey - 8':0.90, 4 3/4":0.95, 3/4":1.02, 1 1/2":0.98 - 0.85 (American Heritage "Independence")
nateobot - 7':0.85, 4 3/8":1.05, 1/2":0.95, 1 3/4":1.00 - 0.85 (custom-made)
angluse - 8'+: 0.95, 4 5/8":0.95, 7/16":0.98, 1 3/16":0.95 - 0.84 (1935 Brunswick Challenger)
dr_dave - 8':0.90, 4 3/4":0.95, 5/8":1.00, 1 3/8":0.98 - 0.84 (8' Connelly home table)
BRussell - 8':0.90, 5":0.91, 13/16":1.04, 1 1/2":0.98 - 0.83 (8' Olhausen)
Lovepool - 9':1.00, 13cm:0.88, 1cm:0.96, 3.5cm:0.97 - 0.82 (home table)
jtaylor996 - 7':0.85, 5 1/8":0.88, 146deg:1.09, 1.51":1.00 - 0.82 (7' Legacy home table)
Mooneye - 7':0.85, 4 7/8":0.91, 3/4":1.02, 1 5/8":1.00 - 0.79 (7' Brunswick "Ranchero")
SloMoHolic - 6':0.85, 4 1/2":1.00, 0":0.95, 5/8":0.95 - 0.77 (old 6' Valley "bar box")
dzcues - 7':0.85, 4 1/2":1.00, 0":0.95, 1/2":0.95 - 0.77 (7' Valley "bar box")
dr_dave - 7':0.85, 4 1/2":1.00, 0":0.95, 3/4":0.95 - 0.77 (7' Valley "bar box" at West End, Fort Collins)

useful information, but it would be better to rewrite all this in Excel and put it in google documents
 

dr_dave

Instructional Author
Gold Member
Silver Member
useful information, but it would be better to rewrite all this in Excel and put it in google documents
I like it better this way, but if you want to convert it to spreadsheet form and edit the document going forward, I'd be happy to add a link to your document to the OP and my updates.
 

8cree

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
Not my table, but where I play when not at bignicks:D! I will measure the other table there on my next visit, it is not close to this tight:

The Birds Nest /private pool room in Summerville SC.

Diamond Blue Label
4.125" mouth
3.312" throat
1.562" shelf

TDF= 1.21
Very tough
 

dr_dave

Instructional Author
Gold Member
Silver Member
Not my table, but where I play when not at bignicks:D! I will measure the other table there on my next visit, it is not close to this tight:

The Birds Nest /private pool room in Summerville SC.

Diamond Blue Label
4.125" mouth
3.312" throat
1.562" shelf

TDF= 1.21
Very tough
Thanks for posting. That is a tough table. FYI, I've added you to the list.
 

dr_dave

Instructional Author
Gold Member
Silver Member
Here's the latest:

Calculate your Table Difficulty Factor (TDF) to determine how tough it plays in comparison to other tables. Only three pocket measurements are required, and you can use the online mobile-friendly TDF calculator (created by "Isaac") or the TDF Excel spreadsheet calculator to get your results.

username - table size, pocket mouth size, mouth-throat difference, shelf depth - TDF (table description)
Vahmurka - 12':1.25, 7.2cm:1.55, 125deg:0.97, 25mm:0.98 - 1.84 (12ft Russian pyramid table)
Side Pocket - 10':1.10, 4 1/4":1.10, 1 1/4":1.14, 2 1/4":1.07 - 1.48 (10' 1920-1925 Brunswick, modified)
CaptiveBred - 10':1.10, 4 1/8":1.15, >143.5deg:1.14, 1 1/2":0.99 - 1.43 (10' Brunswick Anniversary modified)
Bob Dixon - 9':1.00, 4":1.20, 145deg:1.14, 1 5/8":1.00 - 1.37 (Pool Sharks, Las Vegas, money table, Red Diamond Pro-Am, modified)
gregcantrall - 10':1.10, 4":1.20, 5/8":1.00, 1 1/2":0.99 - 1.31 (10 foot Diamond in the Sun City West, AZ Rec Center)
Ricky Sy - 9':1.00, 3 3/4":1.31, 1/4":0.97, 5/8":0.98 - 1.25 (money table at Hard Times in Bellflower, CA)
acedonkeyace - 9":1.00, 4":1.20, 1/2":0.99, 2":1.03 - 1.22 (gamble table at sidePocket in Largo, FL)
ChrisinNC - 10':1.1, 4 1/4":1.1, 11/16":1.02, 1 5/16":0.99 - 1.22 (shimmed 10' Gabriel Sentinel, modified, at Family Billiards in Boone, NC)
8cree - 9":1.00, 4.125":1.15, 0.813":1.05, 1.562":1.00 - 1.21 (Diamond Blue Label at The Birds Nest in Summerville, SC)
Bonus Ball - 9':1.00, 3 7/8":1.25, 1/8":0.97, 3/4":0.98 - 1.19 (Bonus Ball table)
Marc Vidal - 9':1.00, 4 1/8":1.15, 7/16":1.05, 1":0.98 - 1.18 (shimmed Brunswick Tournament Edition)
chevybob20 - 9':1.00, 4 1/8":1.15, 7/8":1.05, 1":0.98 - 1.18 (modified Centennial)
Baxter - 9':1.00, 4 1/4":1.10, 143deg:1.09, 1 1/8":0.98 - 1.18 (modified AMF Grand Prix)
Qaddiction - 9':1.00, 4 1/8":1.15, 3/4":1.02, 1 3/8":0.99 - 1.16 (Diamond)
angluse - 8'+: 0.95, 3 13/16":1.25, 9/16":1.00, 7/8":0.98 - 1.16 (modified 1935 Brunswick Challenger)
Tom Cruise - 9':1.00, 4":1.20, 1/8":0.97, 1 3/8":0.99 - 1.15 (Golden West)
ChrisinNC - 10':1.1, 4 3/8":1.05, 11/16":1.02, 1 5/16":0.98 - 1.15 (original 10' Gabriel Sentinel, modified, at Family Billiards in Boone, NC)
rexus31 - 9':1.00, 4":1.20, 3/8":0.98, 1":0.98 - 1.15 (mid to late 50's AMF Commercial Model similar to a Brunswick Anniversary/Sport King)
FatBoy - 9':1.00, 4":1.20, 1/4":0.97, 1":0.98 - 1.14 (modified GC)
TATE - 9':1.00, 4":1.20, 1/4":0.97, 7/8":0.98 - 1.14 (modified GC)
Mikjary - 9'-1.00, 4":1.15, 9/16":1.00, 1 5/16":0.98 - 1.13 (Brunswick Centurion)
ChrisinNC - 9':1.0, 4 1/8":1.15, 5/8":1.0, 1 1/4":0.98 - 1.13 (tightest Gabriel's Signature Pro, modified, at Family Billiards in Boone, NC - Table 7)
Cardigan Kid - 10'-1.10, 4.5":1.00, 0.88":1.04, 1.5":0.98 - 1.12 (GC from Steinway Billiards)
Ralph Kramden - 9':1.0, 4 5/16":1.05, 1":1.07, 1 3/4":1.00 - 1.12 (1962 GC I)
pocket - 9':1.00 - 4 3/16":1.10, 7/16":0.99, 1 7/8":1.03 - 1.12 (unknown)
Justaneng - 8':0.90 - 4":1.20, 7/8":1.05, 1 1/2":0.99 - 1.12 (Olhausen)
kanzzo - 9':1.00, 10.7 cm:1.10, 1.7 cm:1.02, 2.7 cm:0.98 - 1.10 (GC V tournament edition)
ShaneVanNothin - 9':1.00, 4 1/4":1.10, 1":0.97, 2":1.03 - 1.10 (Modified Brunswick)
Neil - 7':0.85, 4 1/8":1.15, 1 1/4":1.14, 1 3/8":0.99 - 1.10 (modified Valley "bar box")
MahnaMahna - 10':1.10, 5 1/2":0.85, 2":1.09, 2 1/2": 1.07 - 1.09 (snooker table poorly converted into a pool table)
tjlmbklr - 8'+:0.95, 4":1.15, 141deg:1.02, 1 1/4":0.98 - 1.09 (unknown, maybe homemade or a kit table)
Cardigan Kid - 9':1.00, 4 1/4":1.10, 0.45":0.99, 1 5/16":0.99 - 1.08 (GC II)
MSchaffer - 9':1.00, 4 7/16:1.00, 15/16":1.07, 1 5/8":1.00 - 1.07 (GC II, modified)
cigardave - 9':1.00, 4 1/2":1.00, 1":1.07, 1 3/4":1.00 - 1.07 (typical Pro-Cut Diamond)
peppersauce - 9':1.00, 4 1/4":1.10, 3/8":0.98, 1 1/4":0.98 - 1.06 (GC 3)
Side Pocket - 10':1.10, 4 7/8":0.91, 1":1.07, 1 1/2":0.98 - 1.05 (10' 1920-1925 Brunswick)
Pool Hustler - 9':1.00, 4 1/4":1.10, 1/4":0.97, 15/16":0.98 - 1.05 (modified GC)
JC - 9':1.00 - 4 7/16":1.00, 143deg:1.07, 1 3/8":0.98 - 1.05 (modified GC III)
Banger - 9':1.00, 4 1/2":1.00, 7/8":1.04, 1 3/4":1.00 - 1.04 (modified GC III)
Jimmorrison - 7':0.85, 3 7/8":1.25, 7/16":0.99, 3/4":0.98 - 1.03 (modified Ruxton)
SloMoHolic - 9':1.00, 4 1/2":1.00, 7/8":1.04, 1 3/8":0.98 - 1.02 (2005 Red Diamond Pro with ProCut pockets)
CoreyClark - 9':1.00, 5":0.91, 1":1.07, 2 1/8":1.05 - 1.02 (GC I)
bignick31985 - 9':1.00, 4 3/8":1.05, 0.475":0.98, 1.5":0.98 - 1.01 (GC IV)
"standard" table - 9':1.00, 4 7/16":1.00, 9/16":1.00, 1 5/8":1.00 - 1.00 (average-difficulty table)
kanzzo - 9':1.00, 11.4 cm:1.00, 1.7 cm:1.02, 3.3 cm:0.98 - 1.00 (GC V tournament edition)
coxcol15 - 7':0.85, 4.25":1.10, 1":1.09, 1.25":0.98 - 1.00 (Valley barbox w/ Ridgeback pro cuts)
Goldball - 8':0.90, 12.2cm:0.91, 4cm:1.14, 5.4cm:1.07 - 1.00 (Heiron & Smith)
dr_dave - 9':1.00, 5": 0.91, 1 1/8":1.10, 1 3/8":0.99 - 0.99 (old GC II at MatchUps, Fort Collins)
Call_me_Tom - 7':0.85, 4":1.20, 1/2":0.99, 1":0.98 - 0.99 (Valley bar box with Penguin Pro rails)
MVPCues - 9':1.00, 4 1/2":1.00, 1/2":0.98, 1 5/8":1.00 - 0.98 (Antique Brunswick Jefferson, circa 1900)
oldschool1478 - 9':1.00, 4 1/2":1.00, 0.625":1.00, 1.5":0.98 - 0.98 (updated Red Badge Diamond Pro)
freds - 8'+: 0.95, 4.9":0.91, 1.1":1.1, 1.8" 1.03 - 0.98 (Gandy Big G, oversized 8)
Cardigan Kid - 9':1.00, 4 1/2":1.00, 3/4":1.02, 1 1/16":0.95 - 0.97 (GC III Table 7 at Premium Billiards, Syracuse, modified w/ Artemis cushions)
wigglybridge - 9':1.00, 4 1/2":1.00, 5/8":1.00, 1 1/2": 0.98 - 0.98 (GC 1.5, rails rebuilt & cushions replaced)
BryanB - 9':1.00, 4 1/2":1.00, 3/4":1.02, 1 1/4":0.95 - 0.97 (1931 Brunswick with double shimmed pockets)
Poolmanis - 9':1.00, 10.9cm:1.05, 1cm:0.97, 3.1cm:0.95 - 0.97 (modified SAM)
Vahmurka - 9':1.0, 12.5cm:0.91, 20mm:1.04, 45mm:1.03 - 0.97 (Brunswick Metro)
mamics - 9':1.00, 4 11/16":0.95, 143deg:1.07, 1 3/16":0.95 - 0.97 (no-name "Chinese Cheapie" with Uylin cushions)
dzcues - 9':1.00, 4 7/8":0.91, 11/16":1.02, 1 15/16":1.03 - 0.96 (typical League-Cut Diamond)
jviss - 9’:1.00, 4.98”:0.91, 0.76”:1.04, 1.625”:1.00 - 0.95 (GC I)
logical - 9':1.00, 5": 0.91, 7/8":1.04, 1 3/4":1.00 - 0.95 (GC II)
dr_dave - 9':1.00, 5": 0.91, 1":1.07, 1 1/5":0.98 - 0.95 (Olhausen purchased from Robert Byrne)
dzcues - 9':1.00, 5":0.91, 15/16":1.07, 1 1/2":0.98 - 0.95 (Gandy Big G)
Sloppy Pockets - 8'+:0.95, 5":0.91, 1 1/8":1.10, 1 3/4":1.00 - 0.95 (A.E. Schmidt)
44Runner - 8'+/-:0.925, 4 3/8":1.05, 3/4":1.02, 1":0.95 - 0.94 (8' Diamond Pro-Am - blue label)
Corwyn_8 - 9':1.00, 4 3/4":0.95, 1 3/4":1.02, 1 1/4":0.95 - 0.92 (Gandy Winchester)
beetle - 9':1.00, 13.1cm:0.88, 2.2cm:1.03, 4.3cm:1.00 - 0.91 (Olhausen York)
frigopie - 9':1.00, 11.5cm:0.95, 138.7deg:0.98, 3.5cm:0.98 - 0.91 (Eurotour Dynamic III)
12squared - 9':1.00, 4 7/8":0.91, 3/4":1.02, 1 1/2":0.98 - 0.91 (GC home table)
iusedtoberich - 9':1.00, 5 1/8":0.88, 1":1.05, 1 1/2":0.97 - 0.90 (GC)
MSchaffer - 9':1.00, 5 1/8":0.88, 3/4":1.01, 1 3/4":1.00 - 0.89 (GC II)
mfinkelstein3 - 9':1.00, 5 1/8":0.88, 7/8":1.03, 1 1/2": 0.97 - 0.88 (GC III)
StraightPoolIU - 9':1.00, 4 7/8":0.91, 3/4":1.02, 1 1/4":0.95 - 0.88 (GC I)
Vahmurka - 9':1.00, 5 1/8":0.88, 7/8":1.03, 1 1/2": 0.97 - 0.88 (GC)
Dopc - 8':0.90, 4 1/2":1.00, 3/4":1.02, 1 1/4":0.95 - 0.87 (8' Connelly Kayenta)
SloMoHolic - 8':0.90, 4 3/4":0.95, 3/4":1.02, 1 5/8":1.00 - 0.87 (old 8' Brunswick Medalist league table)
RobMan - 9':1.0, 5": 0.88, 3/4":1.01, 1.5":0.97 - 0.86 (GC)
sniggihs - 7':0.85, 4 1/2":1.00, 5/8":1.00, 1 3/4":1.00 - 0.85 (7’ Diamond - Blue Label)
SloMoHolic - 8'+:0.95, 4 7/8":0.91, 7/8":1.04, 1 1/4":0.95 - 0.85 (Brunswick Medalist at Stardust Club in Manchaca, TX)
buckshotshoey - 8':0.90, 4 3/4":0.95, 3/4":1.02, 1 1/2":0.98 - 0.85 (American Heritage "Independence")
nateobot - 7':0.85, 4 3/8":1.05, 1/2":0.95, 1 3/4":1.00 - 0.85 (custom-made)
angluse - 8'+: 0.95, 4 5/8":0.95, 7/16":0.98, 1 3/16":0.95 - 0.84 (1935 Brunswick Challenger)
dr_dave - 8':0.90, 4 3/4":0.95, 5/8":1.00, 1 3/8":0.98 - 0.84 (8' Connelly home table)
BRussell - 8':0.90, 5":0.91, 13/16":1.04, 1 1/2":0.98 - 0.83 (8' Olhausen)
Lovepool - 9':1.00, 13cm:0.88, 1cm:0.96, 3.5cm:0.97 - 0.82 (home table)
jtaylor996 - 7':0.85, 5 1/8":0.88, 146deg:1.09, 1.51":1.00 - 0.82 (7' Legacy home table)
Mooneye - 7':0.85, 4 7/8":0.91, 3/4":1.02, 1 5/8":1.00 - 0.79 (7' Brunswick "Ranchero")
SloMoHolic - 6':0.85, 4 1/2":1.00, 0":0.95, 5/8":0.95 - 0.77 (old 6' Valley "bar box")
dzcues - 7':0.85, 4 1/2":1.00, 0":0.95, 1/2":0.95 - 0.77 (7' Valley "bar box")
dr_dave - 7':0.85, 4 1/2":1.00, 0":0.95, 3/4":0.95 - 0.77 (7' Valley "bar box" at West End, Fort Collins)
 

Slide Rule

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Actually, it is the facing angle that is the culprit, and that is accounted for in the TDF system.
Angle is key but so is the softness of the cushion which additionally changes the angle above the pocket.
If you have an Olhausen table they can be partially improved by installing shims. I played on these
tables at a senor center and shims were installed improving pocketing.

I went through this a number of years ago with those experts in Table Maintenance.
 

dr_dave

Instructional Author
Gold Member
Silver Member
Angle is key but so is the softness of the cushion which additionally changes the angle above the pocket.
If you have an Olhausen table they can be partially improved by installing shims. I played on these
tables at a senor center and shims were installed improving pocketing.

I went through this a number of years ago with those bright guys in Table Maintenance.
Thanks for the info. I should try to stiffen the facings on my Olhausen with a shim. It spits out balls it shouldn't with a fast hits on the corner pocket facing, even clean hits with no side cushion contact.
 

Slide Rule

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Thanks for the info. I should try to stiffen the facings on my Olhausen with a shim. It spits out balls it shouldn't with a fast hits on the corner pocket facing, even clean hits with no side cushion contact.
We put in 1/8" shims but you may find two on each cushion side better as they would be stiffer. That is if you don't object to the tighter pockets. I haven't shot on that table since a successful major surgery in March preceding the Covid19 curtailments. Consider this for when you recover your table.

I suppose you could test the action of the balls with a high speed camera and see just how much the deflection impacts the ball. Another article could be forthcoming.

The guys in Table Maintenance are quite familiar with the situation and have other methods, major surgery, to correct the condition. That section may be Talk to a Mechanic.

The rails on the other hand seem relatively true though I prefer a Diamond table.
 

HNTFSH

Birds, Bass & Bottoms
Gold Member
Silver Member
I like it better this way, but if you want to convert it to spreadsheet form and edit the document going forward, I'd be happy to add a link to your document to the OP and my updates.
Agree and the problem with Google docs is you have to have a Google account. No thanks on Google "apps".
 
Calculate your Table Difficulty Factor (TDF) to determine how tough it plays in comparison to other tables. Only three pocket measurements are required, and you can use the online mobile-friendly TDF calculator (created by "Isaac") or the TDF Excel spreadsheet calculator to get your results.

username - table size, pocket mouth size, mouth-throat difference, shelf depth - TDF (table description)
Vahmurka - 12':1.25, 7.2cm:1.55, 125deg:0.97, 25mm:0.98 - 1.84 (12ft Russian pyramid table)
Side Pocket - 10':1.10, 4 1/4":1.10, 1 1/4":1.14, 2 1/4":1.07 - 1.48 (10' 1920-1925 Brunswick, modified)
CaptiveBred - 10':1.10, 4 1/8":1.15, >143.5deg:1.14, 1 1/2":0.99 - 1.43 (10' Brunswick Anniversary modified)
Bob Dixon - 9':1.00, 4":1.20, 145deg:1.14, 1 5/8":1.00 - 1.37 (Pool Sharks, Las Vegas, money table, Red Diamond Pro-Am, modified)
gregcantrall - 10':1.10, 4":1.20, 5/8":1.00, 1 1/2":0.99 - 1.31 (10 foot Diamond in the Sun City West, AZ Rec Center)
Ricky Sy - 9':1.00, 3 3/4":1.31, 1/4":0.97, 5/8":0.98 - 1.25 (money table at Hard Times in Bellflower, CA)
acedonkeyace - 9":1.00, 4":1.20, 1/2":0.99, 2":1.03 - 1.22 (gamble table at sidePocket in Largo, FL)
ChrisinNC - 10':1.1, 4 1/4":1.1, 11/16":1.02, 1 5/16":0.99 - 1.22 (shimmed 10' Gabriel Sentinel, modified, at Family Billiards in Boone, NC)
8cree - 9":1.00, 4.125":1.15, 0.813":1.05, 1.562":1.00 - 1.21 (Diamond Blue Label at The Birds Nest in Summerville, SC)
Bonus Ball - 9':1.00, 3 7/8":1.25, 1/8":0.97, 3/4":0.98 - 1.19 (Bonus Ball table)
Marc Vidal - 9':1.00, 4 1/8":1.15, 7/16":1.05, 1":0.98 - 1.18 (shimmed Brunswick Tournament Edition)
chevybob20 - 9':1.00, 4 1/8":1.15, 7/8":1.05, 1":0.98 - 1.18 (modified Centennial)
Baxter - 9':1.00, 4 1/4":1.10, 143deg:1.09, 1 1/8":0.98 - 1.18 (modified AMF Grand Prix)
Qaddiction - 9':1.00, 4 1/8":1.15, 3/4":1.02, 1 3/8":0.99 - 1.16 (Diamond)
angluse - 8'+: 0.95, 3 13/16":1.25, 9/16":1.00, 7/8":0.98 - 1.16 (modified 1935 Brunswick Challenger)
Tom Cruise - 9':1.00, 4":1.20, 1/8":0.97, 1 3/8":0.99 - 1.15 (Golden West)
ChrisinNC - 10':1.1, 4 3/8":1.05, 11/16":1.02, 1 5/16":0.98 - 1.15 (original 10' Gabriel Sentinel, modified, at Family Billiards in Boone, NC)
rexus31 - 9':1.00, 4":1.20, 3/8":0.98, 1":0.98 - 1.15 (mid to late 50's AMF Commercial Model similar to a Brunswick Anniversary/Sport King)
FatBoy - 9':1.00, 4":1.20, 1/4":0.97, 1":0.98 - 1.14 (modified GC)
TATE - 9':1.00, 4":1.20, 1/4":0.97, 7/8":0.98 - 1.14 (modified GC)
Mikjary - 9'-1.00, 4":1.15, 9/16":1.00, 1 5/16":0.98 - 1.13 (Brunswick Centurion)
ChrisinNC - 9':1.0, 4 1/8":1.15, 5/8":1.0, 1 1/4":0.98 - 1.13 (tightest Gabriel's Signature Pro, modified, at Family Billiards in Boone, NC - Table 7)
Cardigan Kid - 10'-1.10, 4.5":1.00, 0.88":1.04, 1.5":0.98 - 1.12 (GC from Steinway Billiards)
Ralph Kramden - 9':1.0, 4 5/16":1.05, 1":1.07, 1 3/4":1.00 - 1.12 (1962 GC I)
pocket - 9':1.00 - 4 3/16":1.10, 7/16":0.99, 1 7/8":1.03 - 1.12 (unknown)
Justaneng - 8':0.90 - 4":1.20, 7/8":1.05, 1 1/2":0.99 - 1.12 (Olhausen)
kanzzo - 9':1.00, 10.7 cm:1.10, 1.7 cm:1.02, 2.7 cm:0.98 - 1.10 (GC V tournament edition)
ShaneVanNothin - 9':1.00, 4 1/4":1.10, 1":0.97, 2":1.03 - 1.10 (Modified Brunswick)
Neil - 7':0.85, 4 1/8":1.15, 1 1/4":1.14, 1 3/8":0.99 - 1.10 (modified Valley "bar box")
MahnaMahna - 10':1.10, 5 1/2":0.85, 2":1.09, 2 1/2": 1.07 - 1.09 (snooker table poorly converted into a pool table)
tjlmbklr - 8'+:0.95, 4":1.15, 141deg:1.02, 1 1/4":0.98 - 1.09 (unknown, maybe homemade or a kit table)
Cardigan Kid - 9':1.00, 4 1/4":1.10, 0.45":0.99, 1 5/16":0.99 - 1.08 (GC II)
MSchaffer - 9':1.00, 4 7/16:1.00, 15/16":1.07, 1 5/8":1.00 - 1.07 (GC II, modified)
cigardave - 9':1.00, 4 1/2":1.00, 1":1.07, 1 3/4":1.00 - 1.07 (typical Pro-Cut Diamond)
peppersauce - 9':1.00, 4 1/4":1.10, 3/8":0.98, 1 1/4":0.98 - 1.06 (GC 3)
Side Pocket - 10':1.10, 4 7/8":0.91, 1":1.07, 1 1/2":0.98 - 1.05 (10' 1920-1925 Brunswick)
Pool Hustler - 9':1.00, 4 1/4":1.10, 1/4":0.97, 15/16":0.98 - 1.05 (modified GC)
JC - 9':1.00 - 4 7/16":1.00, 143deg:1.07, 1 3/8":0.98 - 1.05 (modified GC III)
Banger - 9':1.00, 4 1/2":1.00, 7/8":1.04, 1 3/4":1.00 - 1.04 (modified GC III)
Jimmorrison - 7':0.85, 3 7/8":1.25, 7/16":0.99, 3/4":0.98 - 1.03 (modified Ruxton)
SloMoHolic - 9':1.00, 4 1/2":1.00, 7/8":1.04, 1 3/8":0.98 - 1.02 (2005 Red Diamond Pro with ProCut pockets)
CoreyClark - 9':1.00, 5":0.91, 1":1.07, 2 1/8":1.05 - 1.02 (GC I)
bignick31985 - 9':1.00, 4 3/8":1.05, 0.475":0.98, 1.5":0.98 - 1.01 (GC IV)
"standard" table - 9':1.00, 4 7/16":1.00, 9/16":1.00, 1 5/8":1.00 - 1.00 (average-difficulty table)
kanzzo - 9':1.00, 11.4 cm:1.00, 1.7 cm:1.02, 3.3 cm:0.98 - 1.00 (GC V tournament edition)
coxcol15 - 7':0.85, 4.25":1.10, 1":1.09, 1.25":0.98 - 1.00 (Valley barbox w/ Ridgeback pro cuts)
Goldball - 8':0.90, 12.2cm:0.91, 4cm:1.14, 5.4cm:1.07 - 1.00 (Heiron & Smith)
dr_dave - 9':1.00, 5": 0.91, 1 1/8":1.10, 1 3/8":0.99 - 0.99 (old GC II at MatchUps, Fort Collins)
Call_me_Tom - 7':0.85, 4":1.20, 1/2":0.99, 1":0.98 - 0.99 (Valley bar box with Penguin Pro rails)
MVPCues - 9':1.00, 4 1/2":1.00, 1/2":0.98, 1 5/8":1.00 - 0.98 (Antique Brunswick Jefferson, circa 1900)
oldschool1478 - 9':1.00, 4 1/2":1.00, 0.625":1.00, 1.5":0.98 - 0.98 (updated Red Badge Diamond Pro)
freds - 8'+: 0.95, 4.9":0.91, 1.1":1.1, 1.8" 1.03 - 0.98 (Gandy Big G, oversized 8)
Cardigan Kid - 9':1.00, 4 1/2":1.00, 3/4":1.02, 1 1/16":0.95 - 0.97 (GC III Table 7 at Premium Billiards, Syracuse, modified w/ Artemis cushions)
wigglybridge - 9':1.00, 4 1/2":1.00, 5/8":1.00, 1 1/2": 0.98 - 0.98 (GC 1.5, rails rebuilt & cushions replaced)
BryanB - 9':1.00, 4 1/2":1.00, 3/4":1.02, 1 1/4":0.95 - 0.97 (1931 Brunswick with double shimmed pockets)
Poolmanis - 9':1.00, 10.9cm:1.05, 1cm:0.97, 3.1cm:0.95 - 0.97 (modified SAM)
Vahmurka - 9':1.0, 12.5cm:0.91, 20mm:1.04, 45mm:1.03 - 0.97 (Brunswick Metro)
mamics - 9':1.00, 4 11/16":0.95, 143deg:1.07, 1 3/16":0.95 - 0.97 (no-name "Chinese Cheapie" with Uylin cushions)
dzcues - 9':1.00, 4 7/8":0.91, 11/16":1.02, 1 15/16":1.03 - 0.96 (typical League-Cut Diamond)
jviss - 9’:1.00, 4.98”:0.91, 0.76”:1.04, 1.625”:1.00 - 0.95 (GC I)
logical - 9':1.00, 5": 0.91, 7/8":1.04, 1 3/4":1.00 - 0.95 (GC II)
dr_dave - 9':1.00, 5": 0.91, 1":1.07, 1 1/5":0.98 - 0.95 (Olhausen purchased from Robert Byrne)
dzcues - 9':1.00, 5":0.91, 15/16":1.07, 1 1/2":0.98 - 0.95 (Gandy Big G)
Sloppy Pockets - 8'+:0.95, 5":0.91, 1 1/8":1.10, 1 3/4":1.00 - 0.95 (A.E. Schmidt)
44Runner - 8'+/-:0.925, 4 3/8":1.05, 3/4":1.02, 1":0.95 - 0.94 (8' Diamond Pro-Am - blue label)
Corwyn_8 - 9':1.00, 4 3/4":0.95, 1 3/4":1.02, 1 1/4":0.95 - 0.92 (Gandy Winchester)
beetle - 9':1.00, 13.1cm:0.88, 2.2cm:1.03, 4.3cm:1.00 - 0.91 (Olhausen York)
frigopie - 9':1.00, 11.5cm:0.95, 138.7deg:0.98, 3.5cm:0.98 - 0.91 (Eurotour Dynamic III)
12squared - 9':1.00, 4 7/8":0.91, 3/4":1.02, 1 1/2":0.98 - 0.91 (GC home table)
iusedtoberich - 9':1.00, 5 1/8":0.88, 1":1.05, 1 1/2":0.97 - 0.90 (GC)
MSchaffer - 9':1.00, 5 1/8":0.88, 3/4":1.01, 1 3/4":1.00 - 0.89 (GC II)
mfinkelstein3 - 9':1.00, 5 1/8":0.88, 7/8":1.03, 1 1/2": 0.97 - 0.88 (GC III)
StraightPoolIU - 9':1.00, 4 7/8":0.91, 3/4":1.02, 1 1/4":0.95 - 0.88 (GC I)
Vahmurka - 9':1.00, 5 1/8":0.88, 7/8":1.03, 1 1/2": 0.97 - 0.88 (GC)
Dopc - 8':0.90, 4 1/2":1.00, 3/4":1.02, 1 1/4":0.95 - 0.87 (8' Connelly Kayenta)
SloMoHolic - 8':0.90, 4 3/4":0.95, 3/4":1.02, 1 5/8":1.00 - 0.87 (old 8' Brunswick Medalist league table)
RobMan - 9':1.0, 5": 0.88, 3/4":1.01, 1.5":0.97 - 0.86 (GC)
sniggihs - 7':0.85, 4 1/2":1.00, 5/8":1.00, 1 3/4":1.00 - 0.85 (7’ Diamond - Blue Label)
SloMoHolic - 8'+:0.95, 4 7/8":0.91, 7/8":1.04, 1 1/4":0.95 - 0.85 (Brunswick Medalist at Stardust Club in Manchaca, TX)
buckshotshoey - 8':0.90, 4 3/4":0.95, 3/4":1.02, 1 1/2":0.98 - 0.85 (American Heritage "Independence")
nateobot - 7':0.85, 4 3/8":1.05, 1/2":0.95, 1 3/4":1.00 - 0.85 (custom-made)
angluse - 8'+: 0.95, 4 5/8":0.95, 7/16":0.98, 1 3/16":0.95 - 0.84 (1935 Brunswick Challenger)
dr_dave - 8':0.90, 4 3/4":0.95, 5/8":1.00, 1 3/8":0.98 - 0.84 (8' Connelly home table)
BRussell - 8':0.90, 5":0.91, 13/16":1.04, 1 1/2":0.98 - 0.83 (8' Olhausen)
Lovepool - 9':1.00, 13cm:0.88, 1cm:0.96, 3.5cm:0.97 - 0.82 (home table)
jtaylor996 - 7':0.85, 5 1/8":0.88, 146deg:1.09, 1.51":1.00 - 0.82 (7' Legacy home table)
Mooneye - 7':0.85, 4 7/8":0.91, 3/4":1.02, 1 5/8":1.00 - 0.79 (7' Brunswick "Ranchero")
SloMoHolic - 6':0.85, 4 1/2":1.00, 0":0.95, 5/8":0.95 - 0.77 (old 6' Valley "bar box")
dzcues - 7':0.85, 4 1/2":1.00, 0":0.95, 1/2":0.95 - 0.77 (7' Valley "bar box")
dr_dave - 7':0.85, 4 1/2":1.00, 0":0.95, 3/4":0.95 - 0.77 (7' Valley "bar box" at West End, Fort Collins)
What would be difficulty of my AMF playmaster. I feel like it is alot harder to make the balls on it then say my friends brunswick or any of the bar tables
 

dr_dave

Instructional Author
Gold Member
Silver Member

smoochie

NotLikeThis
That's easy to answer. Just take the measurements on all tables of interest and enter them into the online mobile-friendly TDF calculator. If you do, please also post the measurements and results here so I can add them to the list.

Thanks,
Dave
There's one important factor that isn't taken into account in this TDF calculator you have, and I know typically normal tables don't have this, but some weird made old tables do develop this thing which I call roundness of the ledge of pocket, this is very important, to me the rounder this ledge is, the harder and more difficult the table is, because essentially what happens is the table will hardly accept any shots especially those near the cushion.

I did experiment with this and to me my table which has a little rounded ledge (due to fatigue i think or misuses or whatever happened to this table for this to develop) is very much harder table than my friends which has smaller pockets, however my table will refuse shots that my friends table will accept.

Maybe you wont understand what I mean, but think of snooker pockets, do you see how rounded the edge of pockets left & right are and it is the reason why in snooker the balls which are closer to the rail will be regarded as safe or hard shots to make, this exactly what I'm talking about, now I know in billiards we don't have this roundness which is why the balls near the rail are actually easier to play, because in pool what we have is a pointy angle, like really pointy and thats why in pool the rail balls are easy, but as I said, some misused rails can have roundness to them and not the pointy type of edges, if your pocket is not pointy, then check how harder it is to pocket balls, thats all I'm saying.

Image will explain it better.

hggeMhkD0B.png
vtPYcnYEyN.png
 

dr_dave

Instructional Author
Gold Member
Silver Member
There's one important factor that isn't taken into account in this TDF calculator you have, and I know typically normal tables don't have this, but some weird made old tables do develop this thing which I call roundness of the ledge of pocket, this is very important, to me the rounder this ledge is, the harder and more difficult the table is, because essentially what happens is the table will hardly accept any shots especially those near the cushion.

I did experiment with this and to me my table which has a little rounded ledge (due to fatigue i think or misuses or whatever happened to this table for this to develop) is very much harder table than my friends which has smaller pockets, however my table will refuse shots that my friends table will accept.

Maybe you wont understand what I mean, but think of snooker pockets, do you see how rounded the edge of pockets left & right are and it is the reason why in snooker the balls which are closer to the rail will be regarded as safe or hard shots to make, this exactly what I'm talking about, now I know in billiards we don't have this roundness which is why the balls near the rail are actually easier to play, because in pool what we have is a pointy angle, like really pointy and thats why in pool the rail balls are easy, but as I said, some misused rails can have roundness to them and not the pointy type of edges, if your pocket is not pointy, then check how harder it is to pocket balls, thats all I'm saying.

Image will explain it better.

View attachment 577592View attachment 577593

Excellent point. The TDF system applies only to tables with flat facings, like pool tables. It does not apply to tables with rounded facings like snooker or Chinese pool tables.

Regards,
Dave
 

smoochie

NotLikeThis
Excellent point. The TDF system applies only to tables with flat facings, like pool tables. It does not apply to tables with rounded facings like snooker or Chinese pool tables.

Regards,
Dave
Ok cool just wanted to let you know, because some pool tables actually have rounded facing like mine, and it is very very difficult to play on which I like.

Mine is brunswick goldcrown but very old, I don't know what happened to it that the rails of them for the corner pockets became round, but it is what it is, when I bought it used I didnt think much of it, but as I brought ppl to play on it they kept telling me how difficult it is compared to the diamond they are used to play on, and literally i brought great players who kept missing easy shots.

But this gave me the idea to keep it maybe it helps me improve even better, so I kept the rails and didn't replace them, they are a little bit rounded for some reason.
 

dr_dave

Instructional Author
Gold Member
Silver Member
Ok cool just wanted to let you know, because some pool tables actually have rounded facing like mine, and it is very very difficult to play on which I like.

Mine is brunswick goldcrown but very old, I don't know what happened to it that the rails of them for the corner pockets became round, but it is what it is, when I bought it used I didnt think much of it, but as I brought ppl to play on it they kept telling me how difficult it is compared to the diamond they are used to play on, and literally i brought great players who kept missing easy shots.

But this gave me the idea to keep it maybe it helps me improve even better, so I kept the rails and didn't replace them, they are a little bit rounded for some reason.
If only the ends of the points are rounded, the TDF system still gives good results. But if most of the facing is rounded (e.g., if there are no facing inserts/shims and if the cloth was pulled really tight), then the results won't be meaningful.
 
Top