Table difficulty

[silver2k]

Hi,

There are only 2 places to play pool around here. Neither are all that great. I have 2 options. I can go to the pool hall, which has beat up old(non-gold crown) 9-foot brunswicks with old worn cloth. None of these tables are even close to level. I avoid that place. Whenever I have to slow roll a ball, I miss due to the lean.

The other place is a restaurant that has 8 fairly LEVEL 9-foot tables. They are covered with a slow cloth though.

My question is this: The place with the slow cloth has what I think are very tight pockets. It is absolutely impossible to put 2 balls through them at the same time. Even if you use your hands, they wont go through. They are not double shimmed, they are just really tight.

I don't really have much of a problem. I can still break and run out a handful of times per night. My friends absolutely hate the tight pockets(they aren't as good as me though). Although it makes for some awesome one-pocket games, making long difficult shots is very hard unless you hit them perfect. Also(something that I can relate to) is if a ball is hanging in the pocket, it is impossibly to get another ball around that.

Is this a really difficult table? Or does the other place I play at just have very forgiving pockets?

 

[sjm]

Hi,

There are only 2 places to play pool around here. Neither are all that great. I have 2 options. I can go to the pool hall, which has beat up old(non-gold crown) 9-foot brunswicks with old worn cloth. None of these tables are even close to level. I avoid that place. Whenever I have to slow roll a ball, I miss due to the lean.

The other place is a restaurant that has 8 fairly LEVEL 9-foot tables. They are covered with a slow cloth though.

My question is this: The place with the slow cloth has what I think are very tight pockets. It is absolutely impossible to put 2 balls through them at the same time. Even if you use your hands, they wont go through. They are not double shimmed, they are just really tight.

I don't really have much of a problem. I can still break and run out a handful of times per night. My friends absolutely hate the tight pockets(they aren't as good as me though). Although it makes for some awesome one-pocket games, making long difficult shots is very hard unless you hit them perfect. Also(something that I can relate to) is if a ball is hanging in the pocket, it is impossibly to get another ball around that.

Is this a really difficult table? Or does the other place I play at just have very forgiving pockets?

Silver, I'd have to call it a very difficult table. Slow cloth means you have to hit the cue ball a little harder to get shape in many situations. Coupled with the fact that the pockets are tight, and those are very tough conditions. As you yourself have noted, though, such conditions are far more suitable for one-pocket than nine-ball.

 

[TATE]

Hi,

There are only 2 places to play pool around here. Neither are all that great. I have 2 options. I can go to the pool hall, which has beat up old(non-gold crown) 9-foot brunswicks with old worn cloth. None of these tables are even close to level. I avoid that place. Whenever I have to slow roll a ball, I miss due to the lean.

The other place is a restaurant that has 8 fairly LEVEL 9-foot tables. They are covered with a slow cloth though.

My question is this: The place with the slow cloth has what I think are very tight pockets. It is absolutely impossible to put 2 balls through them at the same time. Even if you use your hands, they wont go through. They are not double shimmed, they are just really tight.

I don't really have much of a problem. I can still break and run out a handful of times per night. My friends absolutely hate the tight pockets(they aren't as good as me though). Although it makes for some awesome one-pocket games, making long difficult shots is very hard unless you hit them perfect. Also(something that I can relate to) is if a ball is hanging in the pocket, it is impossibly to get another ball around that.

Is this a really difficult table? Or does the other place I play at just have very forgiving pockets?

No - this is average difficulty now, and yes, the other tables are probably older and have what used to be standard size pockets - 5" or even more...

It helps your game a lot playing on tight tables. Over time, your accuracy and consistency will improve and you will find center pocket on all shots. This takes a while - gradual over a period of months, maybe even a year. Tighter pockets favor the more accurate shotmaker. It's not enough just aiming the cue ball, you have to have a good feel and visualization for exactly where the object ball is entering the pocket.

Measure the opening. 4.5 inches - 4.75 inches is average, 5 inches is generous, and under 4.5 inches (two balls width) is tight. I play on a table with 4 inch pockets - now that is difficult.

The depth of the pocket also matters - deep pockets play a little tighter than shallow pockets. Old Gold Crowns had a different cut on the pocket - so balls wobbled and spit back out from those deep pockets.

The slow cloth both helps and hurts your game. Slow cloth helps you develop a stronger stroke, but hurts you from deveoping super fine speed and spin control. Going from a slow table to a fast table just kills players used to slow cloth. I prefer to play on Simonis or any fine woven or thin cloth. I can adjust quickly to a napped cloth. Once I adjust to the napped cloth, it takes a while to get used to Simonis again.

If you get good on those harder tables, it is an advantage - because it is harder for someone to come in and beat you too.


Chris

 

[sjm]

No - this is average difficulty now, and yes, the other tables are probably older and have what used to be standard size pockets - 5" or even more...

It helps your game a lot playing on tight tables. Over time, your accuracy and consistency will improve and you will find center pocket on all shots. This takes a while - gradual over a period of months, maybe even a year. Tighter pockets favor the more accurate shotmaker. It's not enough just aiming the cue ball, you have to have a good feel and visualization for exactly where the object ball is entering the pocket.

Measure the opening. 4.5 inches - 4.75 inches is average, 5 inches is generous, and under 4.5 inches (two balls width) is tight. I play on a table with 4 inch pockets - now that is difficult.

The depth of the pocket also matters - deep pockets play a little tighter than shallow pockets. Old Gold Crowns had a different cut on the pocket - so balls wobbled and spit back out from those deep pockets.

The slow cloth both helps and hurts your game. Slow cloth helps you develop a stronger stroke, but hurts you from deveoping super fine speed and spin control. Going from a slow table to a fast table just kills players used to slow cloth. I prefer to play on Simonis or any fine woven or thin cloth. I can adjust quickly to a napped cloth. Once I adjust to the napped cloth, it takes a while to get used to Simonis again.

If you get good on those harder tables, it is an advantage - because it is harder for someone to come in and beat you too.


Chris

Tate, as Silver indicated you can't fit two balls, I figured the pockets must be less than 4.5. As balls have a diameter of 2.25, you CAN fit two of them into a 4.5 inch pocket. As you said, the pocket width, and not the number of shims, is what matters. Sounds tight to me.

 

[silver2k]

Tate, as Silver indicated you can't fit two balls, I figured the pockets must be less than 4.5. As balls have a diameter of 2.25, you CAN fit two of them into a 4.5 inch pocket. As you said, the pocket width, and not the number of shims, is what matters. Sounds tight to me.

yeah, 2 balls dont come close to fitting.

I am gonna guess they are about 4" wide. They are fairly deep too. When shot hard, balls tend to rattle and hang fairly deep inside the pocket.

I pity the people who just come into this restaurant and want to shoot around a few games and aren't that good. It must be the most frustrating thing ever!

 

[TATE]

Tate, as Silver indicated you can't fit two balls, I figured the pockets must be less than 4.5. As balls have a diameter of 2.25, you CAN fit two of them into a 4.5 inch pocket. As you said, the pocket width, and not the number of shims, is what matters. Sounds tight to me.

Yes, they sound on the tighter side. He said he was trying to pass two balls through - so I thought he meant all the way through meaning the opening was at least 4.5 inches.


Chris

 

[LastTwo]

The place I play at has fairly tight pockets, (Tate and I both play there) and it really does help to improve your shotmaking. There is one thing I have noticed when I go to other places and play on tables with HUGE pockets, is that if you are playing bad, the huge pocket don't really help much. What I mean by this is when you are shooting bad, most of the time when you pocket an object ball, you are hitting the wrong side of the pocket you were aiming for, and this of course can throw your position on the next shot WAY off. For example, aiming for the thick side of a pocket and hitting the thin side, this can make a difference in your position by a matter of a foot or two. So even though you are getting out of line often, the big pockets can help you of course by accepting shots that wouldn't go in on a normal table, but your game is still going to be bad that day. This has happened to me many times.

 

[ramdadingdong]

The place I play at has fairly tight pockets, (Tate and I both play there) and it really does help to improve your shotmaking. There is one thing I have noticed when I go to other places and play on tables with HUGE pockets, is that if you are playing bad, the huge pocket don't really help much. What I mean by this is when you are shooting bad, most of the time when you pocket an object ball, you are hitting the wrong side of the pocket you were aiming for, and this of course can throw your position on the next shot WAY off. For example, aiming for the thick side of a pocket and hitting the thin side, this can make a difference in your position by a matter of a foot or two. So even though you are getting out of line often, the big pockets can help you of course by accepting shots that wouldn't go in on a normal table, but your game is still going to be bad that day. This has happened to me many times.

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Pocket size has gone up and down over the years. When I came up, back then there were no cars and I had to ride trigger to the pool hall, we had 5x10's with 4 l/2" pockets, that was a test. I had not been on one of those big mothers for decades and drew one in chicago for a trick shot show, made all my shots, but was sweating like a pig, it scared the bee jesus out of me.

They woke up and found out when the pockets are 4 l/2" there are no high runs, the game gets defensive, it takes away the power force follows and draws down the rails. They went to even 5 l/2" pockets which is what Mosconi had his high run on.

Table mfgrs then began to offer two sizes, 4 3/4 or 5". Now many offer just one, 4 3/4 so save money and not stock two parts. If I owed a joint, most of my tables would be like the old big G gandys which has 5" pockets and potted balls really well. For the better players I would put in a mix of the diamond and gold crown 4's with the 4 3/4 pro pockets, then let the one hollers have their one shimmed 4" pocket table to trap roadies walking in the door. Then everyone would be happy. We need bigger pockets in pool halls so people can make balls and be happy. Frustrate them, they leave the game. That is why golf offers 4 tees, so the hacker can play 5000 yards, put him on the gold tees and make him play 7200, he will leave the game because he has no fun.
Best Wishes,
Fast Larry Guninger