Taiwan, the new Philipines.

[T411]

Agreed, and I did follow the junior nationals extremely closely. I did not say the US doesn't have some great young players. Justin Bergman and Jamie Baraks are late teens and both play jam up. What I did say is that it didn't appear that we had an emerging interntional susperstar in our midst, other than Landon (and I should have included the eleven year old Murphy). I believe fifteen year old John Morra is Candadian.

Most of those that go on to be superstars on the world stage already play world class pool as teenagers. As I grew up, three great American teenage players I got to watch were Mike Sigel, Allen Hopkins, and Earl Strickland. Each could gamble with almost anyone in the world as a late teen and it was clear even then that all three had a chance to be counted among the greats one day on the world stage. If there is an American that will play like that as a teen, I suspect it's probably Landon.

Still, I'm more than prepared to admit that there are probably some great teenage or pre-teen American players under my radar, and I hope to see them play soon. I'm as curious as anyone to find out who America's next Johnny Archer is.

My message to follow or to see the BCA Juniors play was intended for everyone, I just used your quote because you had mentioned the players. I should have been clearer. I agree with you about Austin Murphy and there is another real young kid from the Carolinas that has not played in the Nationals for a couple of years that I think is on the same level. There is youngster from Montana that plays Jam-up that also has not played in the Nationals for a while. There are a few kids in the Southwest and in Oklahoma to watch out for and most of these kids are fourteen-and-under. Then every year there seems that someone shows up that nobody has heard of that turns heads.
From one year to the next you can see that a kid can jump his game up phenomenally with the right instruction. You can see that some kids shoot real straight but when you talk to their parents they have no one that coaches them. That is where we are behind in that we do not have many billiard programs for youth.
America’s next Johnny Archer? I think that there are few young “Johnny Archers”.

 

[T411]

Archer was not even under the radar. I have the accustat of his first major win at the Sands (back when it got a really strong field with all the top American players) and with Buddy Hall as the guest anouncer he basically stated that all the pro's were hoping against Johnny winning because once he won one he would go on to dominate, and he did. That was at 19 years old he won that event and at that age already he was probably as good as anyone in America. Now the so called "young" up and comers are 25 years old and even older and I dont see them as anywhere near the phenom Johnny was. At 19 you just knew Johnny was going to be phenomenal and win the worlds. Noone since has shown up like that from America. Yang is definately the same type of player who exploded onto the scene and you dont ask "if" he will win the WPC but instead "when".

“Johnny Archer at 19 probably as good as anyone in America”? I do not think so. I do not think Johnny Archer was as good as anyone in the country at the age of nineteen. I think like you said that people knew that he was going to go on to dominate and be the player that he has become. Johnny got knocked around and had some bruises even into his twenties.

 

[LastTwo]

Well I got my impressions from Jennifer Chen being a celebrity, and I have read stories about regular classrooms having pool tables in them, and plus I read that article about Mr. Tu, so go figure. I also heard that players like Chao and Yang make good money because they are now celebrities and have endorsements. Makes sense, no?

 

[APA7]

Well I got my impressions from Jennifer Chen being a celebrity, and I have read stories about regular classrooms having pool tables in them, and plus I read that article about Mr. Tu, so go figure. I also heard that players like Chao and Yang make good money because they are now celebrities and have endorsements. Makes sense, no?

Thats alot of assumptions there LastTwo


Brian

 

[Renegade]

...Yang is definately the same type of player who exploded onto the scene and you dont ask "if" he will win the WPC but instead "when".

yup, i agree. Yang certainly is WPC material, and has been for a couple of years now. He deserves to win. It's just a matter of time....

And maybe later, Wu can win, too.....

 

[LastTwo]

Thats alot of assumptions there LastTwo


Brian

I can't find that article about Mr. Tu but I'm sure many of you have read it, it says alot about pool in gradeschool classrooms or something like that. I wouldn't just assume out of thin air.

 

[SplicedPoints]

I'm pretty sure the pool tables in classrooms is very rare in Taiwan. Maybe some schools have pool as a after school activity for the students, but as far as I know, the great majority students are not taught to play pool at school.

 

[countessdracula]

. . .

With Asian tours restricting participation to only Philippinos and others of Asian descent, it is difficult to know how well the Taiwanese players would match up with, say, Gabe Owen, Corey Deuel, Johnny Archer, and Danny Basavich. We read about the winners of these Asian tournaments in which only Asian players compete, and although I am sure these winners are great champions, the results are rather skewed on an international scale.
JAM

nice point jam. fyi, in the recently concluded event in RP, there were the big names from taiwan, europe(hohman, immonen, engert, majid,etc.) and us(archer,morris, williams, owen, deuel, etc.). the champion was yang chin shun.

deuel lost to manalo and was eliminated by immonen. gabe lost to pei wei chang of taiwan and was eliminated by andam. hopefully there'll be more tournaments other than wpc and japanese events where there is wide representation among countries so we can have a better idea of who's really at the top.

 

[JAM]

nice point jam. fyi, in the recently concluded event in RP, there were the big names from taiwan, europe(hohman, immonen, engert, majid,etc.) and us(archer,morris, williams, owen, deuel, etc.). the champion was yang chin shun.

deuel lost to manalo and was eliminated by immonen. gabe lost to pei wei chang of taiwan and was eliminated by andam. hopefully there'll be more tournaments other than wpc and japanese events where there is wide representation among countries so we can have a better idea of who's really at the top.

Hi, Countess Dracula! The U.S. Open, coming up this September, is open to all countries, and it usually attracts a fair representation of the international players. The annual BCA Open held in Las Vegas reserves 32 slots out of 64 players for our foreign comrades. I have never done a statistically significant indicator for the win percentage of American players versus any other country, but it would be quite interesting if one were effected.

If one were to look at an environmental sustainability index involving Russia, Russia has more polluted water than anyplace else in the world, but more fresh water than anyplace else in the world. Despite doing everything wrong, it ranks high on the environmental sustainability index because it has a vast resource base. So, on average, it looks pretty good!

JAM

 

[sniper]

Good post Celtic.

In Taiwan you hear about Wu competing on the pro circuit and often beating some of the top pros in Taiwan and Asia...his San Miguel runner up finish comes to mind. If you took one of the North American youngsters say a Justin bergman and put him in a tournament with the top American players say the US Open there is no way he could compete with them. The likes of an Archer or Morris would dominate him. My point is that Taiwan is so far ahead of us with their development at the amateur level that they got 15 and 16 year olds already playing at pro speed. The only exception we got is John Morra who plays at pro speed IMO...he's beaten some of the top pros in eastern canada. BTW, How about Long-lin Zhang the 20 yr old from Taiwan that just qualified in Kaohsiung, he's compared to Wu just a bit older and he is another example of a very young Taiwanese player playing at pro speed.

 

[poolchady]

Good post Celtic.

In Taiwan you hear about Wu competing on the pro circuit and often beating some of the top pros in Taiwan and Asia...his San Miguel runner up finish comes to mind. If you took one of the North American youngsters say a Justin bergman and put him in a tournament with the top American players say the US Open there is no way he could compete with them. The likes of an Archer or Morris would dominate him. My point is that Taiwan is so far ahead of us with their development at the amateur level that they got 15 and 16 year olds already playing at pro speed. The only exception we got is John Morra who plays at pro speed IMO...he's beaten some of the top pros in eastern canada. BTW, How about Long-lin Zhang the 20 yr old from Taiwan that just qualified in Kaohsiung, he's compared to Wu just a bit older and he is another example of a very young Taiwanese player playing at pro speed.

Long-Lin Zhang has been a good money player since 16. He's been staying low the way he could hustle and gamble over the country. I don't know whether John Morra gambles but gambling seems to be a pretty good way for young players to learn and improve their skills.

 

[countessdracula]

Hi, Countess Dracula! The U.S. Open, coming up this September, is open to all countries, and it usually attracts a fair representation of the international players. The annual BCA Open held in Las Vegas reserves 32 slots out of 64 players for our foreign comrades. I have never done a statistically significant indicator for the win percentage of American players versus any other country, but it would be quite interesting if one were effected.

If one were to look at an environmental sustainability index involving Russia, Russia has more polluted water than anyplace else in the world, but more fresh water than anyplace else in the world. Despite doing everything wrong, it ranks high on the environmental sustainability index because it has a vast resource base. So, on average, it looks pretty good!

JAM

hi jam! yup you have us open and bca open. however, if i'm not mistaken, these events don't get much participation from top guns of taiwan. so imo, that makes the results of these tournaments, somehow skewed.

 

[cheemagun]

how did morra do against wu in 2004 ??

 

[JAM]

hi jam! yup you have us open and bca open. however, if i'm not mistaken, these events don't get much participation from top guns of taiwan. so imo, that makes the results of these tournaments, somehow skewed.

Countess Dracula, what I was trying to convey is that it is difficult, if not impossible, to compare players in Taiwan, Philippines, and any of the other Asian-Pacific countries with American players because SOME venues have restricted eligibility requirements.

To weight the players' capabilities on an international scale, using a few isolated tournaments overseas and a few isolated tournaments here on American soil, is quite difficult.

I agree with you 100 percent, Countess Dracula, about the tournament results being somewhat skewed, and in essence, the door swings both ways. If one cannot measure the strengths of the Taiwanese delegation with the strengths of the American delegation, it is because there are only a very few isolated tournaments in which players from both of these countries do participate under one roof.

If one were to use the example of a Philippino defeating an American player on Philippino soil as an indicator, the same can be said of an American player defeating a Philippino on American soil. To date, there are not very many tournaments where ALL PLAYERS from every country participate, with the obvious exception being the World Pool Championship.

Just as our Philippino comrades will come to the States and compete in the U.S. Open and the BCA, the same is true that only a few American players will go to the Philippines to compete in tournaments where they are welcome and not restricted because of their nationality. To obtain a statistically significant set of indices, though, is quite difficult considering the limited amount of tournaments in which every country is represented. So to compare the strengths of one country to another does pose some difficulties in today's pool world.

However, I believe times are a changing, and this is a good thing for all pool players around the world. Matchroom Sport is the leader of international pool (IMO), and I am anxious to see what unfolds in the week ahead. Will the new 2005 WPC Champion be a Philippino, a Taiwanese, an American, or some other country? Time will tell, but it does make for some great excitement, and I can't wait to see who wins the whole shebang!

JAM