Take note of Jeanette Lee during TV match

[Jude Rosenstock]

I see...she's comfortable in a bdsm leather suit! Goddamn I gotta get me one of those and wear it around the house!

Honestly, there is nothing real about that woman, except her ability on the table. I respect her for raising her game in the past year or so, but she is a media whore. I find all her antics annoying and decidedly un-cute, because all of it is insincere, disingenuous. Just more "black widow" self-promotion.

-Roger

Don't hold back Roger. Tell us how you really feel!

With all due respect, if Jeanette were a man, I don't think anyone would say such things. They'd say she was driven, ambitious and focused. Like it or not, right now, Jeanette Lee IS pool. She is the only recognizeable face in the game, at least in the United States. Media Whore? Not only is that comment as sexist as it gets, is there anything wrong with what she's doing? Is it hurting pool? Because of her looks and her ambition, she's gotten pool on just about every talk show on television, been featured on HBO and was voted 3rd sexist athlete by ESPN. Who else are you going to elect to take the game by the horns and turn it into something profitable? Can you name ANYONE who has had as much influence?

Give her some credit. If it weren't for her, people would still be talking about Minnesota Fats and that guy couldn't hold a candle to the top pros of the time. You may not like her and that's fine. That's your opinion. But if you're going to spend the time to bash her on a billiards site, at least have something more than you don't liker her antics. Tell me she stepped on your puppy or something.


Jude M. Rosenstock

 

[buddha162]

There's nothing sexist about what I wrote or how I feel. I can't find a male equivalent to Lee, ie persona over skills, fake, forced table-side demeanor over substance.

If I ever spot the same set of characteristics in a male pro I'll feel the same way, and call HIM a media whore as well. Btw, men can be whores too, in every sense of the word.

Anyway, if you think she did anything more than promote herself and her "black widow experience" you're dead wrong. I want to see players rewarded by the merits of their game, with the best players deserving the most recognition. Reyes and Chao possess no movie-star looks, but their celebrety is movie-star calibre in their respective countries. Liu Shin-Mei, 2 time world champion does not sell anything but her skills on the table, and in Taiwan she is treated like a hero.

If American pool needs to sell itself vicariously through the crude make-believe world of The Black Widow, so be it. But please don't overestimate how much real "pool" Lee is selling.

And no, she didn't step on my puppy. I don't have a puppy. I do have a cat, and if she stepped on her I wouldn't be posting about it on this forum; look for my name in the paper.

-Roger

 

[mike]

If I ever spot the same set of characteristics in a male pro I'll feel the same way, and call HIM a media whore as well. Btw, men can be whores too, in every sense of the word.

How about David Beckham? Or from this sport how about the Pearl? How many words have been wasted here on Earl's draw as a watchable asshole?

 

[buddha162]

How about David Beckham? Or from this sport how about the Pearl? How many words have been wasted here on Earl's draw as a watchable asshole?

Beckham: definite whore.

Earl: decidedly anti-whore. I don't think any reasonable person can think that Earl the Pearl is trying to sell himself, lol.

I like Earl, but I agree that the "watchable asshole" argument is complete bullshit.

-Roger

 

[Jude Rosenstock]

There's nothing sexist about what I wrote or how I feel. I can't find a male equivalent to Lee, ie persona over skills, fake, forced table-side demeanor over substance.

If I ever spot the same set of characteristics in a male pro I'll feel the same way, and call HIM a media whore as well. Btw, men can be whores too, in every sense of the word.

Anyway, if you think she did anything more than promote herself and her "black widow experience" you're dead wrong. I want to see players rewarded by the merits of their game, with the best players deserving the most recognition. Reyes and Chao possess no movie-star looks, but their celebrety is movie-star calibre in their respective countries. Liu Shin-Mei, 2 time world champion does not sell anything but her skills on the table, and in Taiwan she is treated like a hero.

If American pool needs to sell itself vicariously through the crude make-believe world of The Black Widow, so be it. But please don't overestimate how much real "pool" Lee is selling.

And no, she didn't step on my puppy. I don't have a puppy. I do have a cat, and if she stepped on her I wouldn't be posting about it on this forum; look for my name in the paper.

-Roger

I was ready to post a huge response, ranting and raving about this topic. I just decided I only want to know a few things: Have you met Jeanette Lee? If so, what were the circumstances? Have you ever seen her play other than in a tournament or on tv?


Jude M. Rosenstock

 

[Rackin_Zack]

Beckham: definite whore.

Earl: decidedly anti-whore. I don't think any reasonable person can think that Earl the Pearl is trying to sell himself, lol.

I like Earl, but I agree that the "watchable asshole" argument is complete bullshit.

-Roger

Just out of curiosity, are you saying that Jeanette doesn't have any skills? Are you against capitalism in general or just self-promotion?

The definitions of whore per Mr. Webster:

Main Entry: 1whore
Pronunciation: 'hOr, 'hor, 'hur
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English hore, from Old English hOre; akin to Old Norse hOra whore, hOrr adulterer, Latin carus dear -- more at CHARITY
1 : a woman who engages in sexual acts for money : PROSTITUTE; also : a promiscuous or immoral woman
2 : a male who engages in sexual acts for money
3 : a venal or unscrupulous person

Main Entry: 2whore
Function: verb
Inflected Form(s): whored; whor·ing
intransitive senses
1 : to have unlawful sexual intercourse as or with a whore
2 : to pursue a faithless, unworthy, or idolatrous desire
transitive senses, obsolete : to corrupt by lewd intercourse : DEBAUCH

Since I've never seen her on TV performing sexual acts for money I can only assume that you are saying she is "a venal or unscrupulous person" or that she is trying "to persue a faithless, unworthy or idolatrous desire." I for one have not gotten the impression that she was venal, able to be purchased or corrupted for monetary compensation, or unscrupulous, perhaps she is if one of your principles is that you shouldn't use being attractive to your gain if possible. As far as Jeanette pursuing a faithless, unworthy or idolatrous desire, I suppose capitalism could be construed as such a pursuit so that would put anyone who thinks making a decent living and uses capitalist principles to do so has whored themselves.

I personally think that Jeanette is a good that has a market and that there is nothing wrong with Jeanette taking advantage of said market.

Just thought this was an interestign debate so I thought I'd put my $.02 in and ask a couple of questions!

 

[Jude Rosenstock]

Just out of curiosity, are you saying that Jeanette doesn't have any skills? Are you against capitalism in general or just self-promotion?

The definitions of whore per Mr. Webster:

Main Entry: 1whore
Pronunciation: 'hOr, 'hor, 'hur
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English hore, from Old English hOre; akin to Old Norse hOra whore, hOrr adulterer, Latin carus dear -- more at CHARITY
1 : a woman who engages in sexual acts for money : PROSTITUTE; also : a promiscuous or immoral woman
2 : a male who engages in sexual acts for money
3 : a venal or unscrupulous person

Main Entry: 2whore
Function: verb
Inflected Form(s): whored; whor·ing
intransitive senses
1 : to have unlawful sexual intercourse as or with a whore
2 : to pursue a faithless, unworthy, or idolatrous desire
transitive senses, obsolete : to corrupt by lewd intercourse : DEBAUCH

Since I've never seen her on TV performing sexual acts for money I can only assume that you are saying she is "a venal or unscrupulous person" or that she is trying "to persue a faithless, unworthy or idolatrous desire." I for one have not gotten the impression that she was venal, able to be purchased or corrupted for monetary compensation, or unscrupulous, perhaps she is if one of your principles is that you shouldn't use being attractive to your gain if possible. As far as Jeanette pursuing a faithless, unworthy or idolatrous desire, I suppose capitalism could be construed as such a pursuit so that would put anyone who thinks making a decent living and uses capitalist principles to do so has whored themselves.

Just thought this was an interestign debate so I thought I'd put my $.02 in!

tap, tap.



Jude!

 

[Deanna Michelle]

I enjoyed seeing the interview shown on ESPN yesterday with Jeanette Lee, her husband George, and their beautiful bouncing baby girl! Human interest stories are great!

I think the lady pros dress just fine. At the Carolinas Open last year, Canadian Rachel Abblink, who road into town with Larry Nevel, decided at the last minute to enter the tournament. She was the only lady to do so.

I saw her in the rest room before her match, and she asked me if I thought her outfit was professional-looking. She was very cognizant of her image and desired to put on a good show based on her TALENTS and POOL-SHOOTING CAPABILITIES. She's definitely a cutey pie and a good-looker, but I believe she, like the others, want to be known for their SKILLS SET as opposed to their feminine charm!

JAM

I agree with your post completely JAM, I couldn't have said it better (just with more emoticons, haha )

I used to only record select matches, to be able to go back & watch certain players, but I'm more likely to record them all now, for the great interviews with the players that are in the match, as WELL as players that weren't..which is awesome!

Dea

 

[drivermaker]

but she is a media whore. Just more "black widow" self-promotion.
-Roger

I don't see her as a media whore, but I do see it as "black widow" self-promotion, and who can blame her for that when she's the only one in the profession of pool that figured out that's what you have to do to make money in the game. Sure, there are other female players that are envious and initially had ill feelings toward her dress and self promotion, but they've also come to realize that unless you take the bull by the horns yourself, you're just going to be another starving/broke pool player trying to make ends meet.

I've asked numerous non-pool players over the years if they ever watch pool on ESPN and invariably all on them said while channel surfing they've seen the hot chick dressed in black with the long hair (what's her name) playing and enjoyed that she looked so good but could really play (even though they don't know what "really play" means). Like Fats, EVERYBODY knows who the Black Widow is. A non-pool player wouldn't have a clue to the name of ONE single male professional or even be able to recognize their face.

Should more men and women in pool be self-promoting? Hell YES!...if they want to take advantage of the situation and earn max dollars without the benefit of a personal agent or promotions manager. Who else is going to do it if you don't do it yourself? Jennifer Baretta hasn't won yet and is getting closer, but she may end up as the Anna Kournikova (nobody can get that big other than Anna) of pool. Is that bad? I don't think so. You gotta do what you gotta do to make it while you can using all of your God given assets and abilities.

Hell, if anybody is a media whore it's Donald Trump and he already has billions or dollars in the coffer. It's not hurting his bottom line to say the least, but it's also given him worldwide attention and created a new image or himself that's more likeable.

Look at Karen Corr and Allison Fisher as business people/promoters, what have they done? A pool school...BCA certification...an ad for CueTec...hey, big f*#king deal. There's not a whole lot of money in that besides their tournament earnings. They need to step up the action. And as far as the men go, they're all clueless. Earl draws attention to himself, but it's only within the pool community and it doesn't earn any extra dollars.

 

[Ragin1]

I agree with you. I see her selling herself, not pool. My wife and I don't watch her matches anymore, but we have to see her on every commercial selling her light gizmo. I could think of a dozen tour women we would invite to dinner before her.

 

[Micktmason]

I have to agree that she is using her looks to make cash. But, wouldn't most people if they looked like her? It rubs me the wrong way to see someone go out of thier way to look sexier for any type of gain, either for a promotion all the way down to getting guys to buy them drinks at a bar. But that's the way the world is, hot chicks get an easier path. By the way I also don't appreciate men/boys who do similar things, boy bands with no talent or poser singers who are good looking guys. It isn't a gender thing with me. I am also not saying that she isn't a good player, she is very good , especially the past year or so.

 

[vapoolplayer]

I see...she's comfortable in a bdsm leather suit! Goddamn I gotta get me one of those and wear it around the house!

Honestly, there is nothing real about that woman, except her ability on the table. I respect her for raising her game in the past year or so, but she is a media whore. I find all her antics annoying and decidedly un-cute, because all of it is insincere, disingenuous. Just more "black widow" self-promotion.

-Roger

antics? maybe i missed something here. i don't ever recall any "antics". sounds like a little jealousy on your part........ as drivermaker stated, she's making a living. i personally applaud her drive. she is the only pool player who has been in the public spotlight. people may not know her name like fats, but whenever an average non pool playing person talks about pool, i always hear them say something like "that black widow girl" or the "player that dresses in black". a media whore you say???? no more than any other sports player thats on t.v. as others have said.........have you met the woman? by your previous statements i'd say no. she's exactly the same in person as on the t.v. she gets very excited just at the mention of pool. she loves the game and at this point and time the only way to make money purely by pool is the "antics" that you speak of. you sir, should be ashamed to sign your name to such a statemnt.

thanks

 

[buddha162]

you sir, should be ashamed to sign your name to such a statemnt.

Sorry, not ashamed at all. You seem to like her, that's great. I can't stand her, that should be my right as well.

Listen, anecdotes of meeting her, how she talked about pool, how she signed your cueball and kissed your baby is not what I'm talking about. Sure, I'm making a judgement based on very limited information (tv, okay maybe some negative rumors but I swear it's based mostly on tv) but that is within my rights as well, since she is a PUBLIC personality.

We can disagree, and explain our positions, but why should I feel ashamed for posting what I did?

-Roger

 

[buddha162]

I was ready to post a huge response, ranting and raving about this topic. I just decided I only want to know a few things: Have you met Jeanette Lee? If so, what were the circumstances? Have you ever seen her play other than in a tournament or on tv?


Jude M. Rosenstock

Alright, I'm glad you didn't, cuz I'm not ready to get into a
ranting/raving argument over the black widow. By the set-up of your
questions, I fear the debate will come nevertheless, and no, I've
never met her in my life.

Listen, I've heard the stories about how nice/accomodating she is in
person; I've also heard very negative things about her as well.
Neither is relevant to my stated opinion, which is based (almost) soley on her
tv appearances, interviews, promotional appearances, etc., ie, her
public face.

If I ever do meet her in person, I'm sure she'll be as sweet as pie. That wouldn't change my opinion on her career, and my distaste for shameless
self-promotion in general.

I do have nice things to say about her game, I can explain in a later
post. I compare her little comeback in the last year to Chao's
comeback in Taiwan, and that's saying alot (for me). Mental toughness
is not a quality she lacks, that's for sure. I just like to see ability = recognition, that balance is important to me in any endeavor that requires talent/skills/etc.

-Roger

 

[vapoolplayer]

Sure, I'm making a judgement based on very limited information.......
-Roger

that answers your last question. you are making a judgement without very much information at all. you have every right to give your opinion in public.........but remember, its better for everyone to think you are ignorant, than to open your mouth and prove it.......

and for your informational purposes, she didn't sign anything for me, or kiss anything, as i'm not a "fan" of pool per say.

thanks

 

[sjm]

Time the set the record straight in this thread. Anyone out there who thinks that Jeanette Lee has succeeded because of her beauty alone should take note of the fact that she's a workaholic by nature. I wonder whether anyone on the women's side has ever worked harder to become a great pool player. Those of us who live in NYC, where Jeanette lived until the mid 1990's, remember her eighty hour weeks practicing in the poolroom.

Once she became a professional with many titles on her resume, she also became a workahlic when it came to promoting her sport, and, yes, herself. Nonetheless, she remains totally committed to excellence as a player, and, as has been posted on this forum, she still takes lessons from Mark Wilson, pracitices hard, and strives hard for improvement.

If she feels her flashiness, animation and sexuality help popularize the pro pool product, so what --- no player of our generation has brought more positive attnetion to pro pool than Jeanette. She has succeeded because she has a great a work ethic as any woman that has ever played professional pool. We should celebrate, rather than bemoan, the fact that she's as passionate about raising the profile of professional pool as she is about winning tournaments.

To those in this thread who've chosen to celebrate what Jeanette has meant to pro pool, bravo!

 

[Kerry Impson]

Tap, tap, tap sjm!!!

 

[PoolBum]

With all due respect, if Jeanette were a man, I don't think anyone would say such things.

Nonsense. I am someone, and I know her, have played her, and find her attention starved and shamelessly self-promoting. She once said in an interview comparing her and Allison that she (Jeanette) had more natural talent, but that Allison was just a 'steady' player. Hmmm...

 

[JAM]

...I am someone, and I know her, have played her, and find her attention starved and shamelessly self-promoting. She once said in an interview comparing her and Allison that she (Jeanette) had more natural talent, but that Allison was just a 'steady' player. Hmmm...

Well, I applaud Jeanette Lee and look forward to seeing much more of her on the TV. She is not only a talented player, but she is quite beautiful. Sometimes ladies who are pretty seem to receive more criticism. I'm not sure why that is. Here's a player who's got both: natural beauty and raw talent!

Because of the WPBA's rules/regulations, we will not be seeing players like Jeanette at venues like the Derby City Classic. Not sure I agree with the WPBA reasoning, but I do understand the theory behind it.

I had never seen her in person before last year at the DCC, and only heard tales from others who knew her and/or competed with her in the younger years of her career. Actually, she whipped Keith's butt a long time ago when she was younger for a lot of dough, with a spot, busted him the way I hear it (LOL).

At the DCC last year, she spent numerous hours mingling with the spectators and fans, signing autographs and having her picture taken with anybody who asked her. She was a great ambassador for the sport, and her presence at the DCC, with so many hundreds of people in attendance, will be sorely missed. Some pro players, when they finish their matches, retreat to their hotel rooms and NEVER spend time with the fans. Jeanette, on the other hand, seems to enjoy being with the crowds.

I say pool needs more folks like Jeanette Lee. She's definitely got game, and seeing her on TV, she's also got PERSONALITY PLUS, something very much lacking with some of the other pros, male and female (IMO). I've never met a champion player yet who didn't think they were the best in the land. It's called self-confidence, and I think Jeanette Lee should be proud of where she's at in today's pool world. She's come a long way, baby!

JAM

 

[buddha162]

you are making a judgement without very much information at all.

I think you misunderstood my post. When I say I have limited information about her as a person, I mean that as a fact of life for public persons; I like Tom Hanks based on his movie roles, interviews, charitable givings, or I dislike Val Kilmer based on reported snobbery, accounts of paltry tipping, etc.

Meeting any of these people in person would not give me further insight into their character/personality. They are public figures and "sell" themselves to a greater or lesser degree whenever they're in the public eye. As Chris Rock said, you're not meeting the person, you're meeting their representative.

So in any case, I am only privy to glimpses of Lee's personality through various media sources, and I base my opinion on that. Plenty of people draw very different conclusions based on the same set of information. I am indeed passing judgement "without very much information at all," but there is no alternative unless I'm part of her personal sphere (friend, family, manager, etc).

It's very simple: you appreciate the Black Widow, I find her annoying as hell. If that makes me ignorant in your book then so be it.

-Roger