Taking the Air out of the Predator Air
- Thread starter John Barton
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Wrong. Thats a matter of opinion and personal preference. far from fact. A robot may be able to break the fastest with the predator cue but that doesnt mean a human will.Shawn Armstrong said:
John Barton said:
Icon of Sin said:
Exactly! It's the same as the p-air. You can't accurate test the p-air with a robot and claim it as the most accurate jumpstick. When a human use it, it has a different feel. The lower the weight, the harder to control. Professionals with a good stroke can control the p-air. But for an average player, it's way harder to control a light jumpstick, compare to an heavier jumpstick.
You're too funny. The robot swings the cue with the exact same speed, regardless of the cue, and hits the cueball in the exact same spot, regardless of the cue. If the Predator BK2 is faster in the robot, what would ever make you think that it isn't in the real world? It's the way the golf world measures club and ball performance. The robot is called Iron Byron. If you take all the constants, like the cueball, and the velocity of the cue, all you have left is the energy that the cue can store and release. Numbers don't lie, Icon. Only your perception does. I don't use a BK2, but I do believe it's the most "efficient" break cue available. I use a 23 ounce Schmelke. That's what works for me. Doesn't mean I deny Shane's data from break cue testing.Icon of Sin said:
CreeDo said:
I disagree...the Stealth Air Jumper comes standard with a leather tip, and jumps exceptionally well at any distance.
Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
John Barton
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1hit1der said:
Cueball position is all there is to it. When I talk about control I am talking about the ability to add any kind of spin to the ball.
I will diagram the shots I used to show control when I did exhibitions.
Also you may still be able to see some of the videos I did at www.bunjeebilliards.com (I think that's the right website).
John Barton
New member
Scott Lee said:
Actually it's a treated leather tip to my knowledge. I tested it on a durometer and it's almost as hard as a Bunjee tip. It does jump exceptionally well at any distance.
John Barton
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Alex Kanapilly said:
John Barton
New member
CreeDo said:
It depends on what you want to do with your game. Some people are content to hit the ball while others want to be more accurate than that.
If you want to just hit the ball then probably the cue that "jump" a little easier is the one you want. Although the one that jumps easier requires also more tension in your arm to control it.
If you want to be more accurate and stop the cueball when you need to, follow it when you need to, add sidespin when you need to then you want a cue that offers you that.
For most amateurs just hitting the ball is enough. For most advanced players they want to control the cueball as much as possible.
While I am not an advanced player I prefer the cue that I don't have to fight with when I want to add spin.
Now each player is different. Each person can adjust to his equipment. So when I say "fight" with what I mean is feel comfortable with. I personally don't feel comfortable with the P-Air. I can however adjust to it and get decent results. Others might be able to get those results much easier than me.
Part of the reason jump cues as a class are looked down on is because of the "just hit the ball" attitude. They are looked on as a gimmick cue that allows no talent hacks to just hit the ball. What they really are is well engineered cues that do allow the hacks to just hit the ball but also allow the professionals to control the cueball on jump shots.
So yes, for many this discussion on the finer points of jump cues and jumping technique is kind of who cares, but for some of us it's something that we care about because we know that just hitting the ball isn't enough .
John Barton
New member
JoeyA said:
Actually in collaboration with Tom Simpson we wrote a guide to jumping which might still be found at www.bunjeebilliards.com
I also have some videos there that show jump-masse shots as well as jumps with spin.
I don't know why you would not have tried to do a jump masse with other jump cues. They are certainly as possible or more so with other brands of jump cue.
My test does include a jump masse. One in particular that I made up and showed to Mike Massey that he uses on occasion.
As soon as I get a chance I will document the shots on the CueTable. I think that you are right in that there is too little instruction in this area.
John Barton
New member
Here is the link to the videos I did way back when and also the instructional that Tom Simpson did. Tom is one of the principals in the Stinger line of jump break cues now.
http://www.bunjeebilliards.com/blaster-cue-specs.shtml
Chris McDaniel did another video with a lot of better shots than I did but unfortunately that footage is somewhere where we don't have access to it. I hope I come across it again someday because then you will all be able to see the possibilities with a jump cue that will blow your minds....
http://www.bunjeebilliards.com/blaster-cue-specs.shtml
Chris McDaniel did another video with a lot of better shots than I did but unfortunately that footage is somewhere where we don't have access to it. I hope I come across it again someday because then you will all be able to see the possibilities with a jump cue that will blow your minds....
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John Barton
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BPG24 said:
I think it works well. About the same as the other good break/jump cues on the market. I don't think it's inherently better or worse. Of course Tom and Jerry may disagree
but they are supposed to.
John, I see your point about "just hitting the ball is not enough"... and I know that "I'm just content to get a hit" sounds like reducing the stick to a gimmick... but truly, I wonder if this isn't overkill.
You make it sound pretty important to have more precise, controllable english on your jump shots, but guys like earl and efren damn near make it look like a jump stick isn't necessary at all. If it is, maybe just trying to get maximum air and sinking the ball without english is the right play... and again that's pretty much all I see when I see corey [or insert other TV jumper] jump.
I prolly should shut up until I try it myself But I have the feeling I'll fall in love with whatever makes catching air easiest.
You make it sound pretty important to have more precise, controllable english on your jump shots, but guys like earl and efren damn near make it look like a jump stick isn't necessary at all. If it is, maybe just trying to get maximum air and sinking the ball without english is the right play... and again that's pretty much all I see when I see corey [or insert other TV jumper] jump.
I prolly should shut up until I try it myself
But I have the feeling I'll fall in love with whatever makes catching air easiest.
BPG24
Banned
CreeDo said:John, I see your point about "just hitting the ball is not enough"... and I know that "I'm just content to get a hit" sounds like reducing the stick to a gimmick... but truly, I wonder if this isn't overkill.
You make it sound pretty important to have more precise, controllable english on your jump shots, but guys like earl and efren damn near make it look like a jump stick isn't necessary at all. If it is, maybe just trying to get maximum air and sinking the ball without english is the right play... and again that's pretty much all I see when I see corey [or insert other TV jumper] jump.
I prolly should shut up until I try it myself
Not to mention how many top pros foul when trying to jump.... See WPC videos...
Being a new owner of the Predator Air jump cue, I have to say that there is nothing inaccurate with what John Bartorn has posted. If you're looking for a forgiving element to jumping, similar to the low deflection element that Predator has a reputation for, you are not going to find it in the Predator Air Jump cue.
Having marked up several tables trying to get the gist of what this jump cue is about, I'm honestly not blown away by it either. Personally, I don't think the problem is the weight, I think the problem is that the shaft itself. It is too flexible, and the tip is too round for a beginning jumper to be consistent with it.
It can do some cool things, but if you're just a little off, forget about it.
Having marked up several tables trying to get the gist of what this jump cue is about, I'm honestly not blown away by it either. Personally, I don't think the problem is the weight, I think the problem is that the shaft itself. It is too flexible, and the tip is too round for a beginning jumper to be consistent with it.
It can do some cool things, but if you're just a little off, forget about it.
Ok so today I had a fairly long gambling session and made 5/6 jump shots 4 on which I got out on. Paid for itself, doubt I will ever ger rid of it. The easiest to get over a ball with the dart stroke I have used.........
Eric.
Eric.
John Barton
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Ten Shots Test the Jump Cue and Your Skill
Shot 1.
Shot 2.
Shot 3.
Shot 4.
Shot 5.
Shot 6.
Shot 7.
Shot 8.
Shot 9.
Shot 10.
All of these shots can be made with a little practice. They are all shots that can come up often in game situations. They are part of the shots I used to show and teach people how to jump with control.
I have many more but these are the ones I used most often to show myself whether a jump cue was easier or harder to use.
My basic criteria was to do these shots and see how the cue performs for me. Using the Bunjee as my baseline I could determine whether a cue was easier to jump with, harder to control, etc....
I realize that this is not scientific. I can only go on my experience as well as the experience of my employees and colleagues during the last ten years of selling jump cues.
Shane mentioned earlier that Predator had built a "robot" to test the jump cue. I am sure that they did. However I would like to say that there is no way on earth that we will get to see the robot in action to determine what criteria Predator used to come up with the idea that the P-Air is the "most accurate" jump cue. Does that mean that if we had a hole to jump into that the Predator Air on the robot would jump the ball into the hole more accurately than other jump cues? I don't know.
All I can tell you is to put it through the paces and try it with other jump cues. See if there aren't some shots that depend on speed and spin where you are able to do them with less effort than with the P-Air. I hope to see a lot of you that have multiple jump cues trying these shots and reporting your results.
If I am wrong - and it wouldn't be the first time then you can bet I will be busy figuring out what make the P-Air so good and redesigning the Fury to be as close as possible.
But I think that once some of you get past just how high you can jump and start thinking in terms of control you will find that the Predator Air, while good, is just another good choice in a field of good choices. Not "the best" as they claim.
Shot 1.
Shot 2.
Shot 3.
Shot 4.
Shot 5.
Shot 6.
Shot 7.
Shot 8.
Shot 9.
Shot 10.
All of these shots can be made with a little practice. They are all shots that can come up often in game situations. They are part of the shots I used to show and teach people how to jump with control.
I have many more but these are the ones I used most often to show myself whether a jump cue was easier or harder to use.
My basic criteria was to do these shots and see how the cue performs for me. Using the Bunjee as my baseline I could determine whether a cue was easier to jump with, harder to control, etc....
I realize that this is not scientific. I can only go on my experience as well as the experience of my employees and colleagues during the last ten years of selling jump cues.
Shane mentioned earlier that Predator had built a "robot" to test the jump cue. I am sure that they did. However I would like to say that there is no way on earth that we will get to see the robot in action to determine what criteria Predator used to come up with the idea that the P-Air is the "most accurate" jump cue. Does that mean that if we had a hole to jump into that the Predator Air on the robot would jump the ball into the hole more accurately than other jump cues? I don't know.
All I can tell you is to put it through the paces and try it with other jump cues. See if there aren't some shots that depend on speed and spin where you are able to do them with less effort than with the P-Air. I hope to see a lot of you that have multiple jump cues trying these shots and reporting your results.
If I am wrong - and it wouldn't be the first time
then you can bet I will be busy figuring out what make the P-Air so good and redesigning the Fury to be as close as possible.But I think that once some of you get past just how high you can jump and start thinking in terms of control you will find that the Predator Air, while good, is just another good choice in a field of good choices. Not "the best" as they claim.
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John Barton
New member
BPG24 said:
That is because many pros also live under the mistaken belief that the cue does all the work. So they don't practice the various strokes needed for various shots.
I have helped several pro players to jump better by changing their attitudes about it and showing them the proper way - then of course they perform the shots much better than I could.
I can tell you that 99% of makeable jump shots that are fouled by pros are because of lack of practice with the cue they are using. Fouling on a high percentage jump shot is like missing a duck in the corner.