taking the chin off the cue (mini story)

[center pocket]

I prefer to discuss things openly so others can benefit and participate. I'm not trying to argue with you. I'm just trying to make sense of the advice you are posting (from Darren?).

One thing that is clear is that a jerky transition is a bad thing. As Mike points out in his video, the backstroke should always be very slow. The forward stroke should also start very slowly, but it must accelerate to get the cue up to the speed necessary (which will be much faster than any part of the backstroke with a draw shot).

I think that is advice that most people (if not everybody) can agree with.

Catch you later,
Dave

Just try it, maybe ATTEMPTING to match your back stroke speed too your forward stroke speed is just giving me a better transition. I still feel mikes video doesn't disprove anything I am saying here.

If you would have pmed me we could have exchanged numbers and discussed it on the phone.

It keeps this thread from being bumped 20 times in 5 minutes.

 

[dr_dave]

I prefer to discuss things openly so others can benefit and participate. I'm not trying to argue with you. I'm just trying to make sense of the advice you are posting (from Darren?).

One thing that is clear is that a jerky transition is a bad thing. As Mike points out in his video, the backstroke should always be very slow. The forward stroke should also start very slowly, but it must accelerate to get the cue up to the speed necessary (which will be much faster than any part of the backstroke with a draw shot).

I think that is advice that most people (if not everybody) can agree with.

Catch you later,
Dave

Just try it, maybe ATTEMPTING to match your back stroke speed too your forward stroke speed is just giving me a better transition. I still feel mikes video doesn't disprove anything I am saying here.

If you would have pmed me we could have exchanged numbers and discussed it on the phone.

I'll give it a try, but I think we will just need to agree to disagree on this one.

Catch you later,
Dave

 

[NitPicker]

Great post by the OP. Constant evaluation, diagnosis and practice of stroke fundamentals is key to improving skills and high level performance during play.

However, I also do not believe in the same backstroke speed theory. If it were accurate...then you would see top golfers and bowlers using the same speed on their backstroke as with their forward. Imagine a bowler swinging back just as hard as they swing forward...they'd end up on their butts. Smooth transition from one direction to the opposite direction is what's important. Along with the angle (level cue), grip, etc. Maybe it works for the OP to personally keep them smooth...but I don't think this is a rule of thumb.

 

[bdorman]

I went back and watched Darren in a couple of match videos. First, I was surprised at how short his backstroke is -- in both practice and final strokes. The practice stroke backstrokes are no more than 3 inches and his final backstrokes was usually only about 5 inches. His practice strokes (back and forward) are a little bit faster than average (or maybe they look that way because they're so short).

But clearly his final backstroke was slower than his final forward stroke for all but the slowest of shots.

 

[Cardigan Kid]

Many players are not chin players, watch Corey,Efren,Shane, Earl to name a few.
Study the distance of the chin on each shot, you will see it varies from lower to higher.
The distance you are set for each shot is very important for max smooth delivery of the cue and head position, it's all footwork.

As to leveling out,clean and pure hit, I like this analogy.

If you ever had to countersink a finish nail with a nail set / counter punch
You know how important it is to be accurate, in line with the nail,level as humanly possible

Setting the punch is just like setting the cue stick, it has to be accurate and deliver the hammer accurately. If you are off a slightly things change.I know that's old school and they have nail guns today.

We can't always be level, sometimes we don't want to be, but we can try to get there as much as we can.

Mark Wilson says in his book, you can't be too low when power draw or pro grade follow, to be somewhat elevated keeps your stroke hand from hitting your chest and stopping your follow through.

And as for level cue, if too level I was miscuing, until I watched this YouTube video of saint Louie Louie teaching power draw, and his cue had a slight elevation but a remarkable stroke, with hand clear of chest on follow through.

 

[SmoothStroke]

Mark Wilson says in his book, you can't be too low when power draw or pro grade follow, to be somewhat elevated keeps your stroke hand from hitting your chest and stopping your follow through.

And as for level cue, if too level I was miscuing, until I watched this YouTube video of saint Louie Louie teaching power draw, and his cue had a slight elevation but a remarkable stroke, with hand clear of chest on follow through.

.
If you miscue with a level stroke you better check your stroke technique out.
Or read Mark Wilsons book again.

You can only get as level as the rails allow you to. But get there.

I have a feeling if you go on youtube and type in, draw stroke or power draw stroke you will find 50 videos or more of the stroke. I also have feeling they will tell you to level out the cue.

We are not back in 1955 where you need to tear the cloth at 100 mph.
Make sure you are not dropping your elbow, the result is a 2 inch draw or a stop shot.
Standing more upright on a big power draw is no secret, it's been written 1000 times, Mark Wilson did not invent it.

You can draw by hitting just below center, an eyelash worth
You can also follow by hitting below center.
Many players play, from center ball down, not up, including myself.