Talent vs. Tenacity

[Williebetmore]

You be right, WBM. Rep sent.

9BP,
Darnit, don't give up so easily. There's more to debate. Under certain circumstances I think YOU are correct.

To me the key is orthodoxy. If you choose an unorthodox technique, then progressing to even a modest level may require a huge amount of athletic ability and hand eye coordination. If 100 people try to imitate Keith McCready, I doubt many of them will have the talent or tenacity to succeed.

With a strictly orthodox approach, ANY or ALL of that 100 can succeed if they have the tenacity (but the fact is that most players DON'T have the tenacity to dedicate their lives to achieving this goal whether orthodox or unorthodox, and MOST of that 100 will not reach a pro level). The orthodox approach does not require any special gifts. The amount of tenacity demanded, however, is freaking HUGE.

Pool is damn hard, way harder than it looks. It takes someone with grit to plow through it; why not make the plowing as easy as possible by using orthodox technique. It is NOT the only way to get good (most pros did it a different way), but it is obviously the "easiest" way (should only take me another 7,000 focused hours:smile. I started late in life, I need to take the quickest road possible.

 

[ChazL]

Does Mika have more talent than Shane??

Does Archer have more talent than Strickland??

9BP,
I've made it a point to cultivate the views of some of the best players in the world. So far I think every one of them would be insulted by any insinuation that they achieved their level thru talent rather than hard work.

Softshot, all of these champions are MASSIVELY talented. The same can be said for those great players whose views Williebetmore has solicited.

Among these talented individuals, those who work the hardest will almost certainly have the most success. I'd never disparage any champion by suggesting that he got there on natural ability alone.

My point, though is that they ALL have a measure of innate aptitude which allows them to reach this elite level-- and I suspect that these aptitudes are several standard deviations above those of the average player.

There is a selection bias obviously at work here-- championship level players see less talented players quit working at the game and assume that a poor work ethic is to blame for their lack of progress. It doesn't occur to them that more practice time and effort won't yield the same results for these "quitters" as it did for them.

There is really no way to settle this argument conclusively short of assembling a large, randomly selected control group (hundreds of people) and forcing them to take lessons and practice 8 -10 hours per day for an extended period. Obviously, this will never happen.

If such an experiment were conducted, though, I suspect that 5 -10% of the subjects (maybe more) would lack the coordination and talent to get beyond a "C" level. The vast majority of the subjects could get to be reasonably proficient. 5% might reach "shortstop" level. And MAYBE one or two would show the potential to become a champion.

For heaven's sakes, what kind of "talent" is required to play pool? You only need to move your arm from the elbow down; and the balls are sitting still when you start.

Williebetmore, you obviously know and love the game. You can appreciate the visualization required to plan a runout, the eyesight, keenness of aim, and precise delivery required to make a long, razor thin cut, and the touch and technique required to put just the right speed and spin on the cueball to send it around the table and stop it in a two inch window for position.

We don't have the words to accurately describe how any of this is done. We talk about a player's "touch" and "feel". Without denigrating the need for practice and hard work, is it so hard to imagine that the aptitude to develop this "touch" and "feel" will vary widely among individuals?

 

[Big Perm]

The vast majority of AZ, with unlimited funds and practice time, could definitely get to a strong B or A player.....and that is about it....

Look at athletes with unlimited resources that have tried their hand at other sports...

Michael Jordan - baseball - guy had prep, opportunity, funds, and a crazy strong work ethic and couldn't make it happen...
Jerry Rice - golf - prep, opportunity, funds, and nobody works harder than Jerry.....shot 83/76 in a Nationwide Tour event at a venue he knew well....
Charles Barkley - golf - practiced 6+ hours a day with Hank Haney and he can't hit the ball right, much less break 80, and Charles is a basketball legend (he was a single handicap at one time)

Pool isn't just a swing of the arm.....it's consistency, stability, touch, feel, hand/eye coordination.....in addition to hard work and dedication.....