TAP launches new web site and reports record growth

Dave Johnson, Mel McConnell, Jay Holdaway and Rick Garrant are 4 that come to mind right away. These 4 along with the 2 you mentioned make it a tough backyard. Hope to see you out at one of our Provincials some time soon

Bruce
TAP Canada
 


Where is the National Event held now ? IT MOVES EVERY 2 YEARS OR SO...SINCE LOUISVILLE ITS BEEN HELD IN MRYTLE BEACH, ORLANDO AND CHARLESTON, SC...THE NEXT TWO YEARS ARE PLANNED AT BALLYS IN LAS VEGAS.
How many tables do they have for this event ? 80 DIAMONDS
IS THERE TABLE LIGHTING ?...NOT SURE ON THIS...IT MAY HAVE BEEN AT SOME AND OTHERS MAYBE NOT...CAN'T REMEMBER EXACTLY
What measurable improvements have been made since the event in Louisville ?...POOL-NET....BIGTIME IMPROVEMENT AS YOU CAN SEE ON THE STATS I POSTED AND THERE IS MORE EXCITING THINGS PLANNED THAT I AM NOT AT LIBERTY TO SAY AT THIS TIME.
Do you still have different league operators using their own version
and variations of score sheets ?...NOT THAT I KNOW OF
Will you post your score sheet here, so players can get a feel for what it's like, and what is required to keep score on a match ? SURE, IF I CAN...IM IN THE BOONIES HERE AND ON DIAL UP SO ITS A REAL PAIN TO UPLOAD ...SORRY, I TRIED TO UPLOAD IT BUT THIS SITE SAYS IT IS TO BIG. WHAT IS REQUIRED IS A PEN AND BEING ABLE TO COUNT ON YOUR FINGERS. VERY SIMPLE SCOREKEEPING BUT MORE INVOLVED THEN APA.
What is the turn-over % of players who play one or two sessions and switch back to another league ? THAT I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT HAPPENS LOCALLY IN EACH AREA...I DO SALES, I DO NOT KEEP TRACK OF EVERY LEAGUE
How many teams\players were at last years national event ? I DONT HAVE THAT NUMBER BUT I DO KNOW OUR VALLEY FORGE EVENT IS SOLD OUT EVERY YEAR AND IT IS GOING TO BE EXPANDED.

I FELT LIKE I BEEN ON THE WITNESS STAND....I SHOT THE SHERIFF BUT I DID NOT SHOOT NO DEPUTY


Thanks for the Bill Clinton version of answers. "Not Sure", "Not that I know of". I did'nt ask about Valley Forge...and yes you have been on the hot seat with an opportunity to establish what improvements have been made, which I thought was a pretty lack-luster performance. But the players here can form their own views based on your response.

BTW- You completely skirted the 9 Ball handicap issues.[/COLOR]
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Some Guy
I registered and am posting to help a player in my area, so this is my very first post. I noticed you've posted twice, based on your own post don't play TAP anymore, and yet you have more questions than anyone thats posted??

The number of posts I have made has no significance. Again this was an opportunity for you to make an establish what improvements have been made, and you choose be defensive about what improvements apparently still HAVE NOT been made.

My reference of comparison about lighting was to other leagues NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP EVENTS. Not the few traveling tournaments that rent various locations and hold tournaments (most of them have table lighting now too)

We've never raised handicaps during our tournaments so not too sure where that comment comes.

:)Even though we have this stellar tracking scoresheet, we really don’t know what to do with the data...But the “busy work” sure does make players think it is a better system than APA.

As for the 3's and 4's that were "running racks" I recall quite a few of them being dq'd

only seem to recall the announcement that no raises would be made, it’s a free for all, then witnessing 3’s and 4’s turn into 6’s and 7 ‘s… Dont recall anyone being disqualified after that.

As for lighting over the tables?? I've been to many events from other leagues with the same, and where there has been lights I also noticed we then were constantly pumping money into the tables. Everyone plays on the same table so no one is getting an advantage,

Never implied there was an advantage\disadvantage. However,not all the tables were lit the same,some you needed a flash light on, others had half table lighting half good\ half bad,others had bad shadows.So depending on which table you played on,yes there actually could be an advantage for players who played on better lit equipment over others who played on poorly lit tables.Inconsistent playing conditions (DO YA GET IT ?)

Which brings up another of the most ridiculous things I've ever seen at a tournament. No table assignments, or announcements.It was find your opponent,and find a table..Hard to blame that one on Katrina. How you supposed to find a guy you have no idea who he is or where he is at,then go searching for a table...That was insane !!! (you remember that ?) What a cluster uck that was !!!

plus the constant gratitude from players not having to pay for tables at our events is a huge plus.

Played in Valley National Tournament 2 years ago, never chucked one quarter (and they had lights, too)

TAP is a non-sponsored league meaning we are self sufficient at our events not having to rely on outside money to run our events, how many leagues can you say have that ability?

Players don’t care that you are self-sufficient. Only you do.

The first year we were in Louisville left all of us at TAP scrambling since we were supposed to be in New Orleans and Katrina hit a month before our event. Anyone involved in running a large event would understand the crippling affect that has scrambling to find a replacement venue large enough. We learned from that mistake in not asking in advance if they had rules regarding the closing of the ball room where we had the event. So not only did it hurt our players in the mini's it also hurt the mini director since we had no advance knowledge knowing this was going to happen, let alone her taking money from her own pocket to pay players that were totally rude to her for something she had no control over.
Wondering..... were you one of those players?

No, I wasn’t one of those players who was rude to her. Or one that was “paid off”. I waited to finish the tournament,as stated..

P.S. When you create a bad situation, yes people become rude and upset (at that point,you're supposed to "own it".It's just the right thing to do...Sure hope she got compensated for the company's bad situation.

Essentially my purpose for this post was to give you some feedback. (Which you don’t like ) and are unwilling to take that feedback and turn it into improvements. It was also to give you an opportunity to address these issues and establish what improvements have been made. Which based on your response appears to be… very limited.

An 80 table National Championship event with no lighting and “free play” ( if you can get to a table ) is not even on the same planet in comparison to the ACS,VNEA,APA, Or BCA National Events. Sounds much more reminiscent of the smaller Casino event tours, a whole lot arrogant boasting and continued convincing of players how great it is. When in fact leaves a whole lot to be desired.

There may be some things that you guys do right. However, when an organization operates with myopic points of views, is closed minded to feedback, and ignores the relevant value of that feedback by clinging to “this is how we do it”, it’s own future growth will surely be limited.
 
Some Guy

Yes the number of posts is very significant. It means you're here to propogate an illusion of negativity towards TAP. I find it hard to believe that you're here to contribute to the billiard community in a positive manner, in what 4 years since Louisville? With what 1 other post. So in my opinion it's very significant.
You don't play TAP any longer, by your post you have no intention of playing TAP ever again, why waste my time? Personally I don't believe you want answers to any of your questions except to create your own personal attack to the answers given, or to really find out what improvements TAP has done, you're only here to create friction. Sams original post was to tell players about our new website and continued growth.

I can bring up many negative situations in every other league during their National events, but why? It serves no purpose to me or other pool players that support leagues, some of which play in all of them.

If you really do want answers to your questions? TAP has a help desk that will answer all of your questions, number is found on the website.


Bruce
TAP Canada
 
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Pot Calls Kettle Black

Yes the number of posts is very significant. It means you're here to propogate an illusion of negativity towards TAP.


Not an illusion....Closer to reality... My description was truthful and accurate.

I find it hard to believe that you're here to contribute to the billiard community in a positive manner, in what 4 years since Louisville?

I give praise when it is worthy. I criticize when it is warranted..Remember, I asked about the improvements.Which was a huge means for you to shine (those responses shine bright)Based on Sam's and yours response...players can determine if those improvements are limited or have been made.Feel free to discount whether players feel those are legitimate issues or not.

With what 1 other post. So in my opinion it's very significant.You don't play TAP any longer, by your post you have no intention of playing TAP ever again, why waste my time?

As hard as it might be to get a bad taste out of ones mouth,I think an organization deserves a second look.Had some sort of legitimate representation of improvements been made. The masses (not even you or I) can establish if it has been....How many posts you made again ?


Personally I don't believe you want answers to any of your questions except to create your own personal attack to the answers given, or to really find out what improvements TAP has done, you're only here to create friction. Sams original post was to tell players about our new website and continued growth.

I brought up real situations that in fact did occur,and viable concerns any player might ask. Either you disagree those points aren't valid, or you want to discount the validity of those point due to do it being four years ago...Which looks even worse on your behalf that in four years, based on your responses those issues are still being downplayed,avoided, and dismissed.Guess you will have to ask yourself honestly, if that has been achieved here,or if you are still standing in the middle of the forest of an illusion.

...and you are right this has been a waste of my time, and yours...However , I have no vested interests in your organizations success or failure. I'm just a player,who like others expects to show up at a fairly well ran and organized event.

SomeGuy
 
OK - Let's get some perspective here, if it wasn't for APA, BCA & TAP where would we all be? I am guessing there are things with every organization that some people disagree with, not just in Billiards either. You should all know what you are getting yourseleves involved in when you sign on for something, shouldn't you?

Personally I play TAP, but I have nothing but respect for the APA & BCA, it appears to be a pretty thankless task running Leagues whatever organisation you are in. Do I think there are things that could be handled differently, of course I do. If and when I feel the need to raise these issues, I will bring it up with my League Operator and ask him to forward them on to TAP.

What we should all be doing is trying to promote our sport and bring new blood into it. What must people think when they read some of the Post's on here, with people constantly bitc*ing about other leagues? There is a time and place for everything and constructive criticism should always be welcomed. Some posts and some people just take it too far IMHO, you as players have the ultimate power, if you don't like it leave. If you do leave please be courteous enough to write a considered letter to your Operator and copy to Headquarters and let them know why you left. Give them the information on your reasons, what you did to try and bring that to the attention of the proper people, any response you got and how you think those things could be improved.
 
You are 100% correct Georgia Boy

Players always will have a complaint. They will never be 100% satisfied with any league. It is human nature. For example, TAP nationally and my league here in Western Pa. locally have made major improvements over the last few years such as Pool-Net, faster data entry with very few errors (my opinion less then 1 to 3%), major improvemnents in the membership dept., and locally on site data entry at my events thanks to Pool-Net and Diamond tables with lights at future events here in Pa.

All of this and more coming and yet the players will still find something to whine about. The more you give them and no cost or very little added cost and the more they want. I found out as a TAP licensee for over 13 years that this will always be the case. These players more then likely never ran a 8 or 16 player board let alone a event that has 500 or a 1,000 or more players and they have no idea what is involved. Contacting vendors, getting dates and issues resolved with hotels after the players do damage to the place, getting programs ready and printed, buying trophys, making schedules and table assignments, collecting dues, data entry, dqing players that become abusive to you and your family and the list goes on. I have had my car keyed more then once as well as being called names and cussed at. And it is not only me. The APA op in my area has been in fights with players on more then one occasion. And I do not mean verbal. I mean knock down on the floor fighting. It is a very thankless job and sometimes I wonder if it is all worth it in the long run.
 
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Sam at TAP said:
Players always will have a complaint.

the players wuill still find something to whine about.

It is a very thankless job and sometimes I wonder if it is all worth it in the long run.
Click to expand...

How much do you make a year from TAP?
Do you have another job?
If you are that frustrated with it, maybe you should sell your league to someone else.
 
Answer

I am not frustrated with the league. I get frustrated with the players that do not realize how much work people like Bruce, myself and all of the operators in all of the leagues have to do and we get nothing but complaints. I ask them can you do better and they always say, there is no way I would want your job but they always find something to complain about. How many people out there would take money out of their own pocket to make sure the prize funds were correct when deadbeat players stick them for money? Many of us operators have done this in the past and I know I have lost alot of money over the years. TAP is a good league and I am not frustrated with them. It is the players that are selfish and only look at what they can get for as little out of their pocket as possible. That is what is wrong with our sport. Look at the mens pros. They never could get their act together and sustain a tour for more then a few years. It is aways what is best for me. Same with league players.
 
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Example

I will give you a perfect example of a rule in place locally that I had to do years ago because of a few higher end players. I used to have a team roster deadline at week 12. This way players could get thier required 6 matches in during the 16 week session to be able to play in playoffs and higher events.
But a few players only looking out for themselves waited until week 11 or so and saw what teams were doing good and they would jump on these teams and put the bare minimum of weekly dues in the prize fund, then go to the Titleholder event or Valley Forge and try to rob it. So to stop this, I made a local bylaw and set the deadline at week 6. Guess what? That player does not play in TAP anymore. It was to difficult to rob now.

Once again.....Perfect example of a player looking out only for themselves and not the league or their fellow players.
 
D_Lewis
I cannot and will not speak for Sam at TAP, I wouldn't dream of it, but it would seem to me that:

How much anyone earns, yes earns not makes, should be irrelevant, that's as bad as asking a Woman how old she is. Try asking one sometime, when your ears stop ringing, then listen to what she says about asking her age :smile:

From Sam's posts I don't get the impression that he want's to sell or at this stage would consider selling. I think what he's saying is simply that it doesn't matter what you do or how you do it, you cannot staisfy 100% of the people 100% of the time. That would be impossible unless whatever business or other activity you owned or operated only had you and maybe a couple of other people in it. Can you imagine trying to deal with some of the things mentioned in the posts here, it would drive crazy, how these guys control their tempers over some of these things simply amazes me.

We owe all the people at TAP, APA & BCA and all those who help them out, a big Thank You and our utmost respect. It is these people who allow us to play in a competitive environment at very little cost and everyone should be asking themselves "What can I do to help"? Not throwing abuse verbal or physical at the guys!!
 
Georgia Boy said:
D_Lewis
I cannot and will not speak for Sam at TAP, I wouldn't dream of it, but it would seem to me that:

How much anyone earns, yes earns not makes, should be irrelevant, that's as bad as asking a Woman how old she is.
Click to expand...

SAM, is TAP your full time job?
 
Sam at TAP said:
A called shot and ball was made before the scratch and that is how they rule it. The player then has that set of balls the entire game.
Click to expand...

Would the ruling be the same if a player, for instance, was shooting a thin cut shot and the cue ball scratched BEFORE the object ball was pocketed?

Not being nit-picky, :grin-square: just curious.
 
Ruby

The called shot was completed as said and so the player would have that set of balls.
 
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