tapering bar question

[BHQ]

i made a taper bar out of aluminum over the weekend, to give me a .400 taper. primitive and ugly, but effective.
now for the shaft taper bar
i hope i can explain this correctly
does the shaft taper bar need to be 50% of the profile of my particular profile i choose to use?
my straight taper bar is offset .200
i assume shaft must be done the same way
thanks in advance for the help
brent

 

[Bill the Cat]

Shaft taper

I'm guessing at exactly what you mean, but yes.

On the butt taper bar, you offset .200" to obtain a .400" difference in the butt diameter.

Assuming a tip diameter of .512" (13mm) and a joint diameter of .850", the difference (offset) of the shaft taper bar will be .169".

.850" - .512" = .338" / 2 = .169"

The difference being that the taper for the shaft will not be consistant (like to butt taper).

 

[BLACKHEARTCUES]

i made a taper bar out of aluminum over the weekend, to give me a .400 taper. primitive and ugly, but effective.
now for the shaft taper bar
i hope i can explain this correctly
does the shaft taper bar need to be 50% of the profile of my particular profile i choose to use?
my straight taper bar is offset .200
i assume shaft must be done the same way
thanks in advance for the help
brent

I have never made a taper bar. I have 6 lathes, 3 of which have taper bars that came with the lathes. I expierimented with the offset years ago, found what I like & haven't touched them since. I've never measured them, so maybe someone else can answer you. GOOD LUCK...JER

 

[MVPCues]

i made a taper bar out of aluminum over the weekend, to give me a .400 taper. primitive and ugly, but effective.
now for the shaft taper bar
i hope i can explain this correctly
does the shaft taper bar need to be 50% of the profile of my particular profile i choose to use?
my straight taper bar is offset .200
i assume shaft must be done the same way
thanks in advance for the help
brent

I'm not Jer but... (reference from another thread.. )

As for the offset when comparing the ends of the taper bar, yes, 50%.

As for saying 50% of the profile, I'm not sure about the way that is written. The side of the taper bar needs to match the profile of the shaft. By matching the profile (one side), the rate of change of the taper bar is already 50% of the overall rate of diameter change. When finished, if the taper bar was taken off and the shaft held up against it, it should fit pretty snugly against the bar the length of it without gaps between. I have a loose taper bar I can lay a shaft up against to post a pic if you were interested.

As I often mention, I am not a cuemaker, but I like sticking my neck out. To the cuemakers here, feel free to chop it off if I have this all wrong.

Edited: <well when I started typing this, nobody had answered >

Kelly

 

[BHQ]

I'm not Jer but... (reference from another thread.. )

As for the offset when comparing the ends of the taper bar, yes, 50%.

As for saying 50% of the profile, I'm not sure about the way that is written. The side of the taper bar needs to match the profile of the shaft. By matching the profile (one side), the rate of change of the taper bar is already 50% of the overall rate of diameter change. When finished, if the taper bar was taken off and the shaft held up against it, it should fit pretty snugly against the bar the length of it without gaps between. I have a loose taper bar I can lay a shaft up against to post a pic if you were interested.

As I often mention, I am not a cuemaker, but I like sticking my neck out. To the cuemakers here, feel free to chop it off if I have this all wrong.
Edited: <well when I started typing this, nobody had answered >

Kelly

definitely interested in a picture. thanks. email to stix4sale@aol.com

 

[JoeyInCali]

i made a taper bar out of aluminum over the weekend, to give me a .400 taper. primitive and ugly, but effective.
now for the shaft taper bar
i hope i can explain this correctly
does the shaft taper bar need to be 50% of the profile of my particular profile i choose to use?
my straight taper bar is offset .200
i assume shaft must be done the same way
thanks in advance for the help
brent

Yes, because the cutter is cutting both sides of the wood.
The taper is really the difference from edge to edge of the tip end and the joint end. So if the tip's end is .510 and the joint is .840 then the difference
.165 each side.
A .200 difference in 12 inches is about a little less than half a degree in the offset I believe.
Shaft taper has about 3-4 tapers though. Unless you have a conical taper.

 

[rhncue]

definitely interested in a picture. thanks. email to stix4sale@aol.com

When you want a straight taper, such as a cone, then the easiest way to accomplish is to offset the tailstock one half the difference between the two diameters. If a taper bar is to be used then the tailstock should not be moved out of alignment with the headstock. For compound tapers such as used on cue shafts a taper bar must be utilized and no tailstock offset.

When making a taper bar, I mike the shaft I want copied every 1/2" along it's length a then divide the readings in half. Say that the shaft is 13mm at the ferrule. I place my caliper here and reset the caliper to .000. Then every half inch I read what the new readings are such as .000, .000, .000, .002, .003, .005 and so on. Then on the taper bar have these new reading offsets cut onto one side of the bar from a straight edge on the other side.

Accurite taper bars should be cut on a CNC mill. When I had mine made I had a little trouble finding a mill CNC mill that could cut 36". Now a days it's probably no problem. I believe someone sells a setsble taper bar which flexes easily and then locks into place. That is probably the easiest and cheapest way to go.

Aluminum is only good for trial runs with a taper bar. Once the aluminum bar is cut/ground to the exact profile you want then this shoud be transfered to a hard steel bar as aluminum, although easy to work with, is way to soft to last any time at all for a taper bar before it will be nicked up and ruined. The slightest mark on a taper bar will be transfered to a shaft.

Dick

 

[BHQ]

When you want a straight taper, such as a cone, then the easiest way to accomplish is to offset the tailstock one half the difference between the two diameters. If a taper bar is to be used then the tailstock should not be moved out of alignment with the headstock. For compound tapers such as used on cue shafts a taper bar must be utilized and no tailstock offset.

When making a taper bar, I mike the shaft I want copied every 1/2" along it's length a then divide the readings in half. Say that the shaft is 13mm at the ferrule. I place my caliper here and reset the caliper to .000. Then every half inch I read what the new readings are such as .000, .000, .000, .002, .003, .005 and so on. Then on the taper bar have these new reading offsets cut onto one side of the bar from a straight edge on the other side.

Accurite taper bars should be cut on a CNC mill. When I had mine made I had a little trouble finding a mill CNC mill that could cut 36". Now a days it's probably no problem. I believe someone sells a setsble taper bar which flexes easily and then locks into place. That is probably the easiest and cheapest way to go.

Aluminum is only good for trial runs with a taper bar. Once the aluminum bar is cut/ground to the exact profile you want then this shoud be transfered to a hard steel bar as aluminum, although easy to work with, is way to soft to last any time at all for a taper bar before it will be nicked up and ruined. The slightest mark on a taper bar will be transfered to a shaft.

Dick

hello dickie. i did forget to mention this is just a "prototype". i will get something permanent eventually.

 

[seven]

I have never made a taper bar. I have 6 lathes, 3 of which have taper bars that came with the lathes. I expierimented with the offset years ago, found what I like & haven't touched them since. I've never measured them, so maybe someone else can answer you. GOOD LUCK...JER

So what do you use to taper butts? reason I ask is because I have a lathe that I havent built a taper bar yet for. and would like to explore diffrent options before making one. TIA

nevermind.. I just noticed that you said you experimented with offsets. so I'm assuming thats what you use. so...what do you use for shafts then?

 

[Murray Tucker]

So what do you use to taper butts? reason I ask is because I have a lathe that I havent built a taper bar yet for. and would like to explore diffrent options before making one. TIA

nevermind.. I just noticed that you said you experimented with offsets. so I'm assuming thats what you use. so...what do you use for shafts then?

Back before I had a taper bar I used the offset tailstock method. Always a pain in the butt to set up different tapers. I made a set of blocks with adjustment screws so that I could quickly set the lathe up to the right configuration. I would just bolt on the right block and move the tailstock up against it.

Then I built a 40" long taper bar. My lathe came with a facory one so I just modifed thing a bit.

 

[BLACKHEARTCUES]

So what do you use to taper butts? reason I ask is because I have a lathe that I havent built a taper bar yet for. and would like to explore diffrent options before making one. TIA

nevermind.. I just noticed that you said you experimented with offsets. so I'm assuming thats what you use. so...what do you use for shafts then?

I have a Hightower lathe that is only used for inlay work & cutting butts. It has a straight taper & an adjustable taper for shafts, if I need to copy a taper, different than my own. All of my shafts are cut on one of my 3 Porper lathes. I had a taper bar made with a different taper than the one that came with the lathe. When I 1st started I had a wood lathe with a large drill press chuck. I added a DC motor so that I could get high torque at low speeds. I did sanding & wraps on this lathe. My 2nd lathe was an old Atlas machine lathe, with a second chuck added to the back of the headstock. To cut butts I just off set the tail stock. To cut shafts I made marks at 1" intervals & cut down to a predetermined depth, as the router moved along the rails & sanded them smooth. Thank God I don't have to do that anymore. Then I had a taper bar made for the Atlas. I made Qs & did repairs on those 2 lathes for about 6 years & still use them..JER

 

[rhncue]

I have a Hightower lathe that is only used for inlay work & cutting butts. It has a straight taper & an adjustable taper for shafts, if I need to copy a taper, different than my own. All of my shafts are cut on one of my 3 Porper lathes. I had a taper bar made with a different taper than the one that came with the lathe. When I 1st started I had a wood lathe with a large drill press chuck. I added a DC motor so that I could get high torque at low speeds. I did sanding & wraps on this lathe. My 2nd lathe was an old Atlas machine lathe, with a second chuck added to the back of the headstock. To cut butts I just off set the tail stock. To cut shafts I made marks at 1" intervals & cut down to a predetermined depth, as the router moved along the rails & sanded them smooth. Thank God I don't have to do that anymore. Then I had a taper bar made for the Atlas. I made Qs & did repairs on those 2 lathes for about 6 years & still use them..JER

I don't think anyone has mentioned the use of boring heads instead of offsetting the tailstock. If you don't have a lathe set up just for tapering butts and once adjusted left alone then I would use a boring head instead of offsetting the tailstock. Every time you want to turn a butt you have to take the time to offset and then realign the tailstock perfectly which sooner or later is going to run into troubles and is time consuming.

To use a boring head you just buy a 1.5 or 2" boring head whith a 2 or 3 Morse taper shank that fits your tailstock on e-bay. Go to Sears or such and buy a live center for a wood lathe and mount it into one of the boring bar holes. Now you can dial in the offset that you want and leave it adjusted there. When you want to turn a butt you just take out your center in the tailstock and throw in the boring head and your ready to go in about 5 or 10 seconds and no fear of moving your tailstock wrongly.

Dick

 

[BLACKHEARTCUES]

I don't think anyone has mentioned the use of boring heads instead of offsetting the tailstock. If you don't have a lathe set up just for tapering butts and once adjusted left alone then I would use a boring head instead of offsetting the tailstock. Every time you want to turn a butt you have to take the time to offset and then realign the tailstock perfectly which sooner or later is going to run into troubles and is time consuming.

To use a boring head you just buy a 1.5 or 2" boring head whith a 2 or 3 Morse taper shank that fits your tailstock on e-bay. Go to Sears or such and buy a live center for a wood lathe and mount it into one of the boring bar holes. Now you can dial in the offset that you want and leave it adjusted there. When you want to turn a butt you just take out your center in the tailstock and throw in the boring head and your ready to go in about 5 or 10 seconds and no fear of moving your tailstock wrongly.


With my old Atlas I bought an extra tail stock. Then I had one all set up for tapering & one set up for straight cuts...JER

 

[krbsailing]

Boring Heads?

Hey Jer,

Do you have any pics of your old Atlas with the Boring Head setup? Can you explain a little more how this setup works.....totally lost here

Thanks,

Ken

 

[DaveK]

I don't think anyone has mentioned the use of boring heads instead of offsetting the tailstock. If you don't have a lathe set up just for tapering butts and once adjusted left alone then I would use a boring head instead of offsetting the tailstock. Every time you want to turn a butt you have to take the time to offset and then realign the tailstock perfectly which sooner or later is going to run into troubles and is time consuming.

To use a boring head you just buy a 1.5 or 2" boring head whith a 2 or 3 Morse taper shank that fits your tailstock on e-bay. Go to Sears or such and buy a live center for a wood lathe and mount it into one of the boring bar holes. Now you can dial in the offset that you want and leave it adjusted there. When you want to turn a butt you just take out your center in the tailstock and throw in the boring head and your ready to go in about 5 or 10 seconds and no fear of moving your tailstock wrongly.

Dick

What a clever idea Dick ! If you have a tailstock-turret you could leave it in all the time. How do you ensure the dovetail is horizontal and stays that way ?

Dave, wondering if there is an MT1 shank for his 2" boring head

 

[BHQ]

here's my final setup on butt taper bar

maybe not the final setup
working on shaft taper right now