" Tapper Roll"

[Rod]

It started when

Frankly I never heard the term before joining AZB and the discussion of what it is comes up at least once a year.

It started with a creative seller in the Wanted/ For Sale forum. Or he heard it from a friend who has a friend etc -- you know!

I never hear the term before either. Then this creative seller decided to blow a little smoke and say his warped shaft had a taper roll!

I may know who it was but that's not important. However it paved the way for others, some honest, some not, some confused etc, to use the term for a shaft that moved. Not a sanded flat spot or uneven radial run out, its a slightly warped shaft.

Whats acceptable is up to the buyer if he knows how many thousandths in advance. So call it what you like, if indeed it is a sanded or flat spot it could be defined as a taper roll. However if its warped don't blow smoke up my butt and call it a taper roll. If its warped .010 or under I'm fine with that. But if its a new cue and exceeds that limit its going back.

The problem in the sellers forum is few if any can give you a number. Its buyer beware over there. New terms pop up all the time. I mean when I started we never had monster cues or cues that hit a ton. :grin:

Rod

 

[michael4]

Taper Roll = Shaft is concentric and straight but has taper irregularities usually caused when sanding. Like areas sanded off in irregular patches creating an oval or flat shape to a part of the shaft. There is an irregular show of light under the shaft when rolled on a table but they will sight straight when looking down the shaft and manually turning it. These shafts are pretty much all playable.

Warp= Shaft is not straight and will have a slight to extreme bow or bend or two in it but some may still be playable depending on severity. The shaft bumps up and down or has the tip come up when rolled on a table or in a lathe and will not sight straight.

Kevin

The real difference:
taper roll <----sellers term
warp <------buyers term

 

[pooln8r]

The real difference:
taper roll <----sellers term
warp <------buyers term

LOL...Thanks for taking this down the same old tired path, I was trying to make the point that taper roll is a fair and good description of an irregularly shaped shaft whether slight or severe that is shown to be straight when run between two centers on a lathe.

Here's my take:

taper roll (don't know the origin but I like it as a finer level of description of the idiosyncrasies of a straight shaft) <----Improperly used term if it's being used by a seller to misrepresent an actually warped or bent cue but is correct to use to represent variations in the shape of the shafts taper from perfectly concentric when a shaft is clearly straight between two centers.

warp <------A term sellers never want to use unless they are honest about trying to sell actually bent or bowed shafts or butts. There are a lot of good sellers who know the difference between the terms on AZ. We should hopefully all know what a warped shaft is but when it's slight some dishonest people think it's ok to substitute in the wording taper roll for warp. No reason to buy from those people in my book. If they can't properly represent what they're selling online or don't care to be honest while knowing the difference then they better take their chances selling face to face and see where the dishonesty gets them. In my neighborhood, they wouldn't sell much and might not be happy with how they get treated for trying to get over on people.

As buyers we need to be educated and properly informed by sellers of the condition of what they are selling. We need to stand up for each other and not allow people to get away with misrepresenting warped cues.

I bought a cue from a well known seller on AZ who loves ebony on ebony cues about 4 to 5 years ago and I was told up front that one of the two shafts had a slight warp but that it was playable. I would buy again from that seller because it was exactly as described and he definitely emphasized more than it was a noticeable issue to allow me to make an informed decision. Thanks again Jaime!


Kevin

 

[Chopdoc]

Frankly I never heard the term before joining AZB and the discussion of what it is comes up at least once a year.

So why don't we add it to the lexicon with an official AZB chosen definition?

Ready? Go.

That's really interesting. I should let you know then, since the term is relatively new to you, I have been familiar with the term for about 25 years. For all of those 25 years, to me, and among the many people I have known it has meant what I said.


Ready? No go. Sorry.

 

[JB Cases]

That's really interesting. I should let you know then, since the term is relatively new to you, I have been familiar with the term for about 25 years. For all of those 25 years, to me, and among the many people I have known it has meant what I said.


Ready? No go. Sorry.

25 years huh? Hmmm, well I guess sometimes one can go through life and simply miss something everyone else knows about.

I have sold hundreds of cues over the past 25 years, hauled them to over 200 tournaments, displayed them, rolled them on tables, sighted them, discussed them, been in dozens of cue maker's shops and still I hadn't ever heard it before joining AZB several years ago.

Strange how life is funny like that. Kind of like living around the corner from the girl of your dreams and never bumping into her.

I still didn't get your definition of what it means to you and everyone you know.