No, those were the 4 1/8th TAR Diamond rails, the Fatboy rails were gone by then.
TAR Pockets
- Thread starter TATE
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No, those were the 4 1/8th TAR Diamond rails, the Fatboy rails were gone by then.
So you want the Diamond angles instead of the Fatboy angles? The Diamond built rails are what screwed up the TAR table compared to the Fatboy rails built by Glen (RealKingCobra)who is probably the best table mechanic alive atm.
Even if they went 4 1/4 I would rather have Glen do the setup, he has an understanding about how a pocket "needs" to be built to work properly for it's size, which is evident in the way his Fatboy rails were simply awesome playing tight but fair pockets and the Diamond 4 1/8th inch pockets were tight but a little too gaffy spitting out fairly well hit balls down the rail.
In a perfect world I think a 10 foot table with 4 1/4 inch pockets would be my ideal table. It would be awesome for all the games, 10-ball, 8-ball, 1-pocket, and if straight pool.
I hate to say this because I love the game.
IMHO This is part of why the general public does not get into pool. I can hear all the contrary arguements now.
My point is the game needs consistency. The cup size does not change in golf. The hoop size does not change in basketball. The plate size does not change in baseball. The bowling ball & pin size & configuration do not change in bowling.
When the general public plays any of those games or sports for recreation they know they are trying to play a very similiar version of the pro game. I know it's not exactly the same but please get my point.
We can argue all kinds of specifics & reasons why & why not as to the state of the game.
I'm just saying that standards are one part of stablizing the game & getting it ready for a possible acceptance & resurgence from the general public. Pocket size would simply be lifting the foot to take the first step. How many just here on AZB might be relatively new to the game & look at all the disention that they get to read about even among the pool loving community.
How about one size pocket for 7', one size for 8', one size for 9' & one size for 10'. If the BCA or WPA is the governing body then standards should be set for any sanctioned event. If the standards are not met then the event can & will not be sanctioned. Can you imagine the PGA or the Masters Commitee sanctioning a qualifying event with 6" hole cups or 3 1/2" hole cups.
I can hear the arguements but if the game is going to grow then it is going to have to go through some growing pains. When baby grows & needs a new pair of shoes the new shoes cost money.
I know this thread is just in reference to a TAR match but we are gauging these outcomes on different equipment to evauate players' ability & that is somewhat my point. The parameters of other sports & games are consistant. I know tennis is played on different surfaces etc. but the court is the same size. Conditions vary but there is some consistency in other games & sports.
'Did you hear the score Tiger put up last week. Yeah but the cup was 6". When Phil shot his score on that same course the cup was only 4 1/2" so his score is alot more impressive. He's a much better putter than Tiger'
I'm just saying... & naturally all of this is JMHO. Human beings like consistency & are resistant to change.
Just some food for thought not argument.
Regards &
IMHO This is part of why the general public does not get into pool. I can hear all the contrary arguements now.
My point is the game needs consistency. The cup size does not change in golf. The hoop size does not change in basketball. The plate size does not change in baseball. The bowling ball & pin size & configuration do not change in bowling.
When the general public plays any of those games or sports for recreation they know they are trying to play a very similiar version of the pro game. I know it's not exactly the same but please get my point.
We can argue all kinds of specifics & reasons why & why not as to the state of the game.
I'm just saying that standards are one part of stablizing the game & getting it ready for a possible acceptance & resurgence from the general public. Pocket size would simply be lifting the foot to take the first step. How many just here on AZB might be relatively new to the game & look at all the disention that they get to read about even among the pool loving community.
How about one size pocket for 7', one size for 8', one size for 9' & one size for 10'. If the BCA or WPA is the governing body then standards should be set for any sanctioned event. If the standards are not met then the event can & will not be sanctioned. Can you imagine the PGA or the Masters Commitee sanctioning a qualifying event with 6" hole cups or 3 1/2" hole cups.
I can hear the arguements but if the game is going to grow then it is going to have to go through some growing pains. When baby grows & needs a new pair of shoes the new shoes cost money.
I know this thread is just in reference to a TAR match but we are gauging these outcomes on different equipment to evauate players' ability & that is somewhat my point. The parameters of other sports & games are consistant. I know tennis is played on different surfaces etc. but the court is the same size. Conditions vary but there is some consistency in other games & sports.
'Did you hear the score Tiger put up last week. Yeah but the cup was 6". When Phil shot his score on that same course the cup was only 4 1/2" so his score is alot more impressive. He's a much better putter than Tiger'
I'm just saying... & naturally all of this is JMHO. Human beings like consistency & are resistant to change.
Just some food for thought not argument.
Regards &
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Ya, but it is one of the only things that does not change. You have that conistent cup size being cut into a different section of the green every day, on different holes that are 100 yards or greater then 650 yards, some holes are uphill, some are downhill, some are level, some have bunkers, some have water traps, ect....
Alot of stuff DOES change in golf.
But the hole in golf IS small, and if they went and changed the hole to the size of a trash can lid and made it so that every pro golfer could easily sink a put or a short chip once they got into range of the green then the whole game of golf would become a driving contest, and it would suck. It woudl change the nature of the game and the guys with the huge drives would suddenly rule the world, the touch part of the game and players like Corey Pavin or Mike Weir would never have even made a blip on the radar.
That is pool atm, it has made every aspect of the game except the break too easy and thus put way too much emphasis on that one shot.
At least when SVB broke and ran the 7-pack against Alex on the Fatboy rails it was NOT "just" because of the awesoem break he has, he had to follow that break up with some amazing shooting on a tough table, and he did. Now though, we are back to "wow, what a break, he is out before he even shoots the 1 ball..." and that sucks.
I was there live for SVB-DA and that table was gaffy. SVB ended up flat on a ball down the rail and after some reflection he decides to load up the inside-follow and splits the pocket. Well the table did everything but fart in trying to reject the PERFECT ball.
What you saw yesterday was a Top 5 in the world player at his best making it look easy. MD is a top 20 player who was not at his best and in no way made the table look easy. Remember this table was a STANDARD Diamond 4.5" table. What is so wrong with that? If we took two other Top20 level pros (not including the Top5) how long would we have to wait before we saw a 5 pack?
I'm looking forward to two new players coming in and lets see if they blow the doors off the table. I'm betting not.
Nick
What you saw yesterday was a Top 5 in the world player at his best making it look easy. MD is a top 20 player who was not at his best and in no way made the table look easy. Remember this table was a STANDARD Diamond 4.5" table. What is so wrong with that? If we took two other Top20 level pros (not including the Top5) how long would we have to wait before we saw a 5 pack?
I'm looking forward to two new players coming in and lets see if they blow the doors off the table. I'm betting not.
Nick
Everyone who has kept up with the conversasions knows that the 4 1/8th TAR rails were gaffy.
Everyone also knows that the 4 1/8th Fatboy rails were NOT gaffy.
Noone is saying that the TAR 4 1/8th inch rails did not need to be fixed or replaced, they did. They should have just brought Glen in to do it right and actually get a set of rails that matched the Fatboy rails.
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What I don't understand is if Glen is a representative of Diamond why can't the finished product be the same?
I enjoyed the show. I wanted to see the runs longer. It was nice watching SVB in some spots shoot moderately difficult shots to keep the runs going. It was impressive to watch the beat down in progress--I kept hoping he would run the set out. Watching Mike squirm in his seat while each mistake he made cost him 2-3 games. Answering packages with packages is needed and Mike put one in right at the end but it was all too late. Most rotation gambling games is winner breaks for a reason. The next TAR match SVB may be the one in the seat watching. 
These pockets vs the 4 1/8" = two different games.
I'm not partial to either; I enjoy the free wheeling game and the more strategic game.
One advantage to the larger pockets is that play seems to be a bit faster.
I'm not partial to either; I enjoy the free wheeling game and the more strategic game.
One advantage to the larger pockets is that play seems to be a bit faster.
Mr. Celtic,
I agree with you. I was not 'argueing' for any specific size pocket. Tight pockets with coinciding shelves are fine. I was just making a point for consistency.
And...it would seem to me, to make sense that the smaller the table, the smaller the pocket. The larger the table the larger the pocket. However, 'we' are talking about very small differences. Or...maybe the way to go is one size pocket and let the table size and shelf garner any increase of difficulty.
I just think some form of consistency & uniformity would be beneficial.
Regards to You &
Exactly. This is NOT a bucket table. This is a standard Diamond. There's only a handful of players in the world who can make it look that easy. That's a compliment to SVB, not an indictment of the table.
During the TAR broadcast before the match, Mike said it was hard to fade SVB' break, I am sure Shane would match up with him in some races playing the ghost. By the way, isn't the break part of the game, Mike always uses it to his advantage when playing someone with a weaker break.
why change?
... I believe all of the following were on a tighter set-up... (all but Alex I purchased .. traveling at the time)
Shane vs. Earl 9-ball to 75 (the straw that broke Justin's back) Shane win's
Shane vs. Alex 10-ball and Shane closes the set with a 7 pack? on the TIGHT table (there's a package for ya)
Shane vs. Archer (best of 3 race to 25 10-ball) Archer wins... GREAT match
Shane vs. Busty (best of 3 race to 25 10-ball) Busty wins ... Hill/Hill first day with table length combo
Shane vs. Dennis O. (8-ball, 1 pkt and 10 ball) Dennis wins and the 8 ball run outs were from everywhere
Mike vs. Hatch (best of 3 race to 25 10-ball) Mike wins.
Corey vs Schmitt (all around) "... he loves pool but he lost his love for pool in the 1-pkt.. "
I may of missed one or two BUT all of the above where very good matches... so why because of 1 match when neither player (shane or daz) played well does TAR take a poll and say f' it... ?
I purchased the first night of Shane vs Mike... and it was a long version of a tournament match which I can see short versions of in many places..
I have always enjoyed the uniqueness of TAR (Big money match and "you are there"... Race to 100 (OMGWTF)... and "you are there"... now private studio super tuff table under the lights COOL... and now even that is gone, I will miss it... sorry for the long post not sure what stage of the grieving process I am in.... LOL
... I believe all of the following were on a tighter set-up... (all but Alex I purchased .. traveling at the time)
Shane vs. Earl 9-ball to 75 (the straw that broke Justin's back) Shane win's
Shane vs. Alex 10-ball and Shane closes the set with a 7 pack? on the TIGHT table (there's a package for ya)
Shane vs. Archer (best of 3 race to 25 10-ball) Archer wins... GREAT match
Shane vs. Busty (best of 3 race to 25 10-ball) Busty wins ... Hill/Hill first day with table length combo
Shane vs. Dennis O. (8-ball, 1 pkt and 10 ball) Dennis wins and the 8 ball run outs were from everywhere
Mike vs. Hatch (best of 3 race to 25 10-ball) Mike wins.
Corey vs Schmitt (all around) "... he loves pool but he lost his love for pool in the 1-pkt.. "
I may of missed one or two BUT all of the above where very good matches... so why because of 1 match when neither player (shane or daz) played well does TAR take a poll and say f' it... ?
I purchased the first night of Shane vs Mike... and it was a long version of a tournament match which I can see short versions of in many places..
I have always enjoyed the uniqueness of TAR (Big money match and "you are there"... Race to 100 (OMGWTF)... and "you are there"... now private studio super tuff table under the lights COOL... and now even that is gone, I will miss it... sorry for the long post not sure what stage of the grieving process I am in.... LOL
Exactly. This is NOT a bucket table. This is a standard Diamond. There's only a handful of players in the world who can make it look that easy. That's a compliment to SVB, not an indictment of the table.
Totally agree!! Have a great idea lets make the table a 6x12 snooker table!
Totally agree!! Have a great idea lets make the table a 6x12 snooker table!
Is this table the same they use for The US Open? If so, surely someone (AtLarge?) has stats from the Open to compare against. IIRC, BnR's for even the elite players didn't approach 40%, much less 50%. Maybe in the 25-30% range. Note, we'd be comparing 9 ball to 10 ball stats!
Just how impressive was Shane the last 2 nights? A real nice showing or off the charts performance?
Just how impressive was Shane the last 2 nights? A real nice showing or off the charts performance?
I agree with this. My previous point after the Darren match was the pockets were not cut properly because they wouldn't hold some shots.
At least in the previous matches, Shane had to aim. This one he was sleepwalking through it. It looked like practice.
The only real entertainment was the faces and headshaking Mike had going on the entire match, not worth $15.
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NOT on fanboys rails
Who is "fanboy"?
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Nyeh, nyeh, made you look... at your original post, that is.
-Sean
Shane's Break and Run was 50%, Mike's about 25%.
I suspect both of these numbers are close to what these guys average in 10 ball on a standard Diamond in the perfect condiitons of the TAR studio. Maybe Shane would be a little less normally, 35% - 40%. One day with the Fatboy rails he averaged 54% if I recall.
For the record, to those of you who may not know, standard Diamonds ARE BUCKETS.
I suspect both of these numbers are close to what these guys average in 10 ball on a standard Diamond in the perfect condiitons of the TAR studio. Maybe Shane would be a little less normally, 35% - 40%. One day with the Fatboy rails he averaged 54% if I recall.
For the record, to those of you who may not know, standard Diamonds ARE BUCKETS.
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They didnt make the hoop smaller for Larry Bird did they?
Just because world class players play world class doesnt mean their should be a new standard in equipment.
Just because world class players play world class doesnt mean their should be a new standard in equipment.
It's not the tabe. MD couldn't fire back at Shane when he had his chances. It was the match up not the table. Put Orcullo or Archer against SVB on this table & it is much more entertaining & competitive. I like the pockets like this & like to see these guys hit that gear.