teaching the closed bridge

[frankncali]

It is a good way to force almost anyone who has never drawn the ball before to get good zip on the ball, and nearly everybody can handle the finger positions.

Bob
You know you cant come on here and drop a nugget like that and then vanish.
Where is the link to the article about it and some pics/diagrams?

BTW if you ever hear of Semih Sayginer or another very good 3cushion trickshot guy being anywhere close(ish) to SoCal please let me know.

Frank

 

[Snoogi]

It took some hard pushing, but I did manage to get the tip of my index finger onto the knuckle of my ring finger. Now the joint in my index finger is sore. Thanks a lot Mike!

Congradulations for achieving the famous Philipino loopo.

 

[Patrick Johnson]

If that were the case, there would be no reason to use a
'closed' bridge at all.

Dale

Many players, including pros, rarely do. I only use a closed bridge when there's not enough space on the table to make a good open one. A closed bridge can take up less space because you're only spreading three fingers instead of four. The "equal and opposite" drawback is that you can't get as low with a closed bridge.

By the way, shots like the hard follow shot that Earl was teaching in that video can be executed just as well with an open bridge.

pj
chgo

 

[Patrick Johnson]

There might be.

If you balance, say, a 1/2" x 4' dowel on your bridge hand, it's obvious that there is considerably more counter-torque supplied by a closed bridge than an open one. Yes, it's still relatively easy to move the the tip from side to side, but I don't think this is telling the story. It takes only a small amount of torque by the grip hand to miss a shot. The question is: is the counter-torque supplied by a closed bridge a significant fraction of this, ie, enough to make a difference?

I purchased a cheap laser with the intent of measuring this, but never got around to it. (If anyone wants it, I'll send it along and you can do the miserable tests - but I think the battery is probably near gone by now. )

When doing the same thing with the bridge you described (if I'm doing it right), the "tip" end of the dowel wants to move to the left, as if it were spring loaded. This might provide a helpful counter-torque for a player that naturally tends to swoop to the right. With the more traditional closed bridge, there is no tendency to move either right or left.

Jim

Does "counter torque" mean you think a closed bridge can physically help restrain a tip's side-to-side movement from a wobbly stroke? I've heard this claim before, and I have to say it's completely absurd from a physics standpoint.

But if you mean a closed bridge gives better tactile feedback to alert you to your wobbly stroke, then I can buy that.

pj
chgo

 

[third_i]

When I use a closed bridge my index finger wraps around the cue and sits on top of the middle finger knuckle. The thumb either sits on the table to brace or if I'm hitting lower the base of the thumb rests on the table and the tip meets the index finger and the middle finger knuckle. I do have larger more flexible hands than most but this is how my closed bridge works for me.

 

[Ballistic Billiards]

close

you can get lower with a closed bridge than with an open one.
HOW?! you ask.
tuck your middle finger under
(optional)
then as mike so eloquently put it
index on top of ring, thumb touching both.
you'll be lucky to not rip the cloth with your follow through.
-cOOp

 

[Snoogi]

you can get lower with a closed bridge than with an open one.
HOW?! you ask.
tuck your middle finger under
(optional)
then as mike so eloquently put it
index on top of ring, thumb touching both.
you'll be lucky to not rip the cloth with your follow through.
-cOOp

Reminds me of a particular pro who once mentioned that the close bridge is only sitting on three points, hence not as stable as the open bridge. But now it seems that we can sit on all fours.

 

[Fatboy]

its amazing how hard the snooker players can deliver the cue with an open bridge, i'm talking about the pros, i have a friend alan moris who posts here sometimes he is a pro level snooker player, when we play 9B and he is using a normal cue he can break so hard with an open bridge you wouldnt believe its possible until you see it, he only shoots with an open bridge and dosent miscue on shots he has to put alot of spin on or has to stun etc, but he is a pro. i cant accomplish what he can with an open bridge but i do shoot mostly with an open bridge.

 

[Jal]

Does "counter torque" mean you think a closed bridge can physically help restrain a tip's side-to-side movement from a wobbly stroke? I've heard this claim before, and I have to say it's completely absurd from a physics standpoint.

But if you mean a closed bridge gives better tactile feedback to alert you to your wobbly stroke, then I can buy that.

pj
chgo

It may be partially absurd but I don't think it's completely off the wall.

If you wiggle your cue from side to side to test your bridge's resistance to it, you're most likely doing this over a much shorter time period than your stroke. And your probably wiggling it over a much larger angular displacement than it takes to screw up a shot. As such, it's not really a good measure of its resistance.

The amount of torque it takes to move the tip through some angle is inversely proportional to the square of the time the torque is applied (roughly). So let's say you're wiggling the cue through some angle in 1/5'th the time it takes for a typical stroke. It would then require only about 1/25'th this torque to produce the same angular displacement during the longer stroke period. It may be that a closed bridge can in fact provide a significant fraction of this, in the way of a counter-measure.

Many, including myself, have the impression that a closed bridge does provide some useful stroke stabilization. Without knowing the numbers though, it's hard to say for sure. As a primarily open bridge user myself, maybe you can rid me of the notion so I won't needlessly fret over which one to use on certain shots?

Jim

 

[Patrick Johnson]

It may be partially absurd but I don't think it's completely off the wall.

If you wiggle your cue from side to side to test your bridge's resistance to it, you're most likely doing this over a much shorter time period than your stroke. And your probably wiggling it over a much larger angular displacement than it takes to screw up a shot. As such, it's not really a good measure of its resistance.

The amount of torque it takes to move the tip through some angle is inversely proportional to the square of the time the torque is applied (roughly). So let's say you're wiggling the cue through some angle in 1/5'th the time it takes for a typical stroke. It would then require only about 1/25'th this torque to produce the same angular displacement during the longer stroke period. It may be that a closed bridge can in fact provide a significant fraction of this, in the way of a counter-measure.

Many, including myself, have the impression that a closed bridge does provide some useful stroke stabilization. Without knowing the numbers though, it's hard to say for sure. As a primarily open bridge user myself, maybe you can rid me of the notion so I won't needlessly fret over which one to use on certain shots?

Jim

Try this. Lay your stick on the table, then, without touching the butt end or using your grip hand at all, grip only the tip end with your normal closed bridge. Now try to move the butt end just by gripping your bridge more tightly. If you can't move it, then you can't stop it from moving. If you can't stop the butt from moving, you can't stop the tip from moving.

pj
chgo

 

[seymore15074]

I haven't read all of these posts to see if someone else has mentioned it, but I beleive that contact between the middle, index, and thumb is extremely important. Each of those three should touch the other two.

 

[Bob Jewett]

I haven't read all of these posts to see if someone else has mentioned it, but I beleive that contact between the middle, index, and thumb is extremely important. Each of those three should touch the other two.

That's one way to make a looped bridge, but it's not the way Mosconi did it. I think a looped bridge is more solid if the thumb is holding the index finger against the middle finger, but lots of people have a hard time making their fingers do that.

 

[mikepage]

That's one way to make a looped bridge, but it's not the way Mosconi did it. I think a looped bridge is more solid if the thumb is holding the index finger against the middle finger, but lots of people have a hard time making their fingers do that.

My thumb does both: holds the index finger against the middle finger and touches the middle finger.

In any case, the crux of my suggestion here is when learning to form a bridge to position the thumb last.

The details of what it does & doesn't support or touch may depend upon length, thickness, and flexibility of individual fingers.

 

[Travis Bickle]

That's the bridge I forced myself to use (the Mosconi style) back when I was about 19 ... took a few weeks to get comfortable with, but have used it ever since. I agree that most beginners (at least the ones I've tried to help) can't seem to get their head (or their fingers) around the concept.

This business of incorporating the ring finger, now that seems like a major contortionist trick. I like having the ring finger as the center of the tripod. But I'm no world beater.

It takes a certain leap of faith to stick with something that's uncomfortable at first. Much like getting away from the frying pan grip for serving in tennis. A majority of recreational players never do, I'd bet.

 

[mikepage]

[...]

This business of incorporating the ring finger, now that seems like a major contortionist trick. I like having the ring finger as the center of the tripod. But I'm no world beater.

I[...]

Just to be clear, I used "ring finger" by mistake in my original description where I meant middle finger. It's fixed now. I hope I haven't ruined too many budding pool careers and caused too many newgrouper's compensation claims.

 

[Travis Bickle]

Just to be clear, I used "ring finger" by mistake in my original description where I meant middle finger. It's fixed now. I hope I haven't ruined too many budding pool careers and caused too many newgrouper's compensation claims.

Whew, that's a relief. I tried working that out on my desk and it's physically possible, but ... ouch.

 

[Bob Jewett]

That's the bridge I forced myself to use (the Mosconi style) back when I was about 19 ... took a few weeks to get comfortable with, but have used it ever since. ...

My hand hurt for two weeks when I took Willie's advice. Then it stopped hurting. My left hand seems to have learned the bridge on its own and without pain, but I often prefer to use Lassiter's left-handed bridge.

 

[Patrick Johnson]

you can get lower with a closed bridge than with an open one.
HOW?! you ask.
tuck your middle finger under
(optional)
then as mike so eloquently put it
index on top of ring, thumb touching both.
you'll be lucky to not rip the cloth with your follow through.
-cOOp

I think the deciding factor is how much you have to bend your hand to get your thumb to touch whatever finger it touches to form the "v". The less you have to bend your hand, the lower you can bridge the cue. You have to bend your hand more to get your thumb to touch your middle finger (closed bridge).

pj
chgo

 

[Kent]

Based on the original description of how to form the bridge. Is your middle finger tucked under or sticking outward? I assume outward, but the face down part confuses me.

 

[mikepage]

Based on the original description of how to form the bridge. Is your middle finger tucked under or sticking outward? I assume outward, but the face down part confuses me.

Outward, pretty much perpendicular to your pinky.