teaching the closed bridge

[Jal]

Try this. Lay your stick on the table, then, without touching the butt end or using your grip hand at all, grip only the tip end with your normal closed bridge. Now try to move the butt end just by gripping your bridge more tightly. If you can't move it, then you can't stop it from moving. If you can't stop the butt from moving, you can't stop the tip from moving.

Pat. that wouldn't tell you much either.

Jim

 

[Travis Bickle]

My hand hurt for two weeks when I took Willie's advice. Then it stopped hurting. My left hand seems to have learned the bridge on its own and without pain, but I often prefer to use Lassiter's left-handed bridge.

Could you describe Wimpy's bridge? What do you like about it?

 

[Bob Jewett]

Could you describe Wimpy's bridge? What do you like about it?

See his book "Billiards for Everybody" for a picture, but simply slide your grip hand up the stick closing it some to remain firmly around the shaft, and rest the knuckles of your hand on the table. It's simple, comfortable, relatively secure, and makes your opponent raise the bet when he shouldn't. I think Lassiter may have used it primarily for the last reason. I know when I first saw him play, I was wondering why they let the clumsy hick in with real players. Then I got to watch him mesmerize Mizerak and finally torture Jersey Red.

 

[Patrick Johnson]

I guess that was pretty obscure (lol).

I meant to say that you don't have enough leverage at the tip to physically counteract side-to-side movement at the butt, so therefore you can't physically reduce side-to-side movement with your bridge hand.

In fact, I doubt that you could make a meaningful difference even if you gripped the shaft as tightly as possible in your whole fist.

pj
chgo

 

[pdcue]

Many players, including pros, rarely do. I only use a closed bridge when there's not enough space on the table to make a good open one. A closed bridge can take up less space because you're only spreading three fingers instead of four. The "equal and opposite" drawback is that you can't get as low with a closed bridge.

By the way, shots like the hard follow shot that Earl was teaching in that video can be executed just as well with an open bridge.

pj
chgo

What do you mean by MANY?

Maybe you see lots of Canadians or something, but in a few
decades of watching thousands of players at all levels, I would
put the number at well below 10% - closer to 1%, if I had to guess.

Could you name a pro player, who came through an American
pool playing background who shoots using an open bridge?

Dale

 

[Jal]

I guess that was pretty obscure (lol).

I meant to say that you don't have enough leverage at the tip to physically counteract side-to-side movement at the butt, so therefore you can't physically reduce side-to-side movement with your bridge hand.

In fact, I doubt that you could make a meaningful difference even if you gripped the shaft as tightly as possible in your whole fist.

pj
chgo

I understood what you were saying. But dragging the butt along a table's cloth is asking too much. As you say, there's just not enough leverage. But I did your experiment on wax paper on top of a smooth appliance surface. It was relatively easy to move the butt sideways while moving the cue forward and backwards at the same time.You certainly can't draw any conclusions from this though.

I had in mind the types of shots that require unusual accuracy (long ones, extreme cuts), where a slight deviation from the proper direction results in a miss. Since it takes only a slight amount of sideways force to produce this deviation, it's possible that a loop bridge might provide enough counter-torque to significantly help.

One argument against it is that the amount of torque one's bridge is capable of producing goes down as angular deviation diminishes. But without some rather exacting measurements at small angular displacements, who knows?

Jim

 

[Bob Jewett]

... The "equal and opposite" drawback is that you can't get as low with a closed bridge....

Unless you go to a fist bridge. The main disadvantage with the normal fist bridge is that it hits the ball too low for many situations. This can be fixed with the "dial-a-height" adjustment that carom players use.

 

[Rod]

That's one way to make a looped bridge, but it's not the way Mosconi did it. I think a looped bridge is more solid if the thumb is holding the index finger against the middle finger, but lots of people have a hard time making their fingers do that.

I pinch the side of my middle finger with my index finger and thumb. Making a closed bridge at first isn't always easy. No matter what bridge one uses you have to train your fingers for it to be comfortable.

I play a fair game left handed but it takes a few minutes for my right hand to be comfortable. A bridge can be practiced sitting at your desk, dinner table etc. A couple of minutes a day and it becomes natural.

Rod

 

[PKM]

One problem with teaching a closed bridge is that it might be much more difficult with a house cue that doesn't slide through your fingers. I use an open bridge in the unfortunate times that I have to use a house cue.

 

[Bob Jewett]

One problem with teaching a closed bridge is that it might be much more difficult with a house cue that doesn't slide through your fingers. I use an open bridge in the unfortunate times that I have to use a house cue.

I carry sandpaper in my wallet. I have more sandpaper in my car.

But I agree that sticky cues and sticky hands are big problems when learning a closed bridge. They make the student settle for something less than snug.

 

[renard]

frankncali, try having your friend turn her bridge hand a little more in (right handed on the table, you would rotate your thumb more towards you), this might help her get the extra clearance to form up a closed bridge.

This is good advice. Most beginners, women in particular try and keep their arm straight out and locked in front of them. With smaller hands the loop cant be pulled tight and much of the bottom of the index finger just rests loosely on top of the cue shaft...

 

[mikepage]

I carry sandpaper in my wallet. I have more sandpaper in my car.

But I agree that sticky cues and sticky hands are big problems when learning a closed bridge. They make the student settle for something less than snug.

I've taken a house cue that could catch flies into the bathroom, where I zap it with a half dozen soaking wet paper towels followed immediately by a half dozen dry paper towels. Then I wash and dry my hands, and VIOLA a smooth cue.

 

[renard]

I've taken a house cue that could catch flies into the bathroom, where I zap it with a half dozen soaking wet paper towels followed immediately by a half dozen dry paper towels. Then I wash and dry my hands, and VIOLA a smooth cue.

Your exactly right, it's the accumulation of dirt on the cue and the players hands that make it sticky...

 

[Solartje]

couldnt u post pictures of 3 different open bridges.

took me half an hour to read the posts, and looking silly behind my desk trying to do fingergymnastics, where as 3 pics would say it all in 1second.




btw i still dont get it. ive got an idea, but not sure.

ps. in my case it isnt my bridge hand that makes the cue go straight. it is my griphand and my chest. By pressing the cue against my chest when stroking, im having a straight stroke even without a bridge. The open V bridge just is there to adjust the height, not the direction....

if u use: bridge + grip ===> u have one fixed point (bridge) and one point that can rotate (grip). (used when u use BHE)
if u use: bridge + body + grip ===> u have two fixed points (bridge + body (at least, if your body is still during the stroke)) and one point that can rotate (grip). my cue can only go in one direction as long as i stand my body still, and the height of my bridge is constant. even if my bridge moves a bit from left to right, my body should cover it...

i think this is more important then the bridge type you use on itself...

just my 2c :s im in NO way a pro, and nobody teached my anything. its just result from my own 2c experience.

 

[thyme3421]

I think it's a good insight about the closed bridge (that the middle finger plays a bigger role than the thumb) and teaching it that way will pass the insight along.

But I have this (contradictory?) comment about closed bridges in general: they don't need to form tight loops to work. Like an open bridge, they can just give support from underneath and work perfectly well. In fact, I think of a closed bridge as just another open bridge, but formed by the thumb/middlefinger rather than the thumb/indexfinger - the loop formed by the index finger is irrelevant (except maybe to your confidence), whether it's touching the stick or not.

pj
chgo

Perhaps that's why you don't use the closed bridge very often? unless I'm mistaking on that.

It seems to me that the purpose of a closed bridge is when you want to use a lot of english, and the cue might bounce a bit off your hand.
For example, a lot of top spin... with an open bridge, the contact of the leather tip and the top edge of the QB, there's a chance the tip is going to bounce slightly off the cueball, and increase chances of a miscue.
With a closed bridge, a *GOOD* closed bridge, the bounce will be completely reduced if not non existant because the finger will be holding down the stick, maintaining friction to the QB.

- Duane Edwards
Westmont, IL

 

[Patrick Johnson]

Perhaps that's why you don't use the closed bridge very often? unless I'm mistaking on that.

It seems to me that the purpose of a closed bridge is when you want to use a lot of english, and the cue might bounce a bit off your hand.
For example, a lot of top spin... with an open bridge, the contact of the leather tip and the top edge of the QB, there's a chance the tip is going to bounce slightly off the cueball, and increase chances of a miscue.
With a closed bridge, a *GOOD* closed bridge, the bounce will be completely reduced if not non existant because the finger will be holding down the stick, maintaining friction to the QB.

- Duane Edwards
Westmont, IL

I don't believe a miscue can be prevented by gripping the cue more tightly. The tip may fly a visible distance off course *after* miscuing, but the miscue itself happens on a scale that's too small and too quick to affect with our fleshy bridge. I agree that the tip moves more after contact with an open bridge, but I don't think it affects the shot. It just spooks the shooter.

pj
chgo

 

[Flex]

I carry sandpaper in my wallet. I have more sandpaper in my car.

But I agree that sticky cues and sticky hands are big problems when learning a closed bridge. They make the student settle for something less than snug.

One of the reasons I use a glove.

 

[CreeDo]

I think the trick to make people understand is that the loop doesn't have to be fingertip-to-fingertip, that's why the loops end up huge. They put the tip of the thump touching the very tip of the pointer. When I make the loop neither 'tip' is really involved, the pad of the thumb rests along the side of the finger. How far down the side depends on the player but for me it's directly alongside the smallest joint in the pointer.

After making the loop it should look more like a box than an "o" shape, about the same dimensions of a soda bottlecap (for me).

Lastly make sure they can see that the middle finger (the very beginning part of it, not the entire thing) guides the stick.

Also, a glove is a great investment.