Tearing into others cues

[pdcue]

Wow, seems I actually struck a nerve somewhere! Not my intention, I assure you!

My question is not so much if a full-splice cue will actually play better, but if the vibration, what I call the "full-splice vibration" that comes up the shaft, upon striking the cue ball, on up through the forearm and into the handle and into my hand and into my brain... that wonderful resonance and feel that I'm describing is what I really like. Can a half-spliced cue, which seems to be the choice of a great many cuemakers, both custom and production, produce that "full-spliced feel" (I'm sure you know what I'm talking about)? Is the half-spliced cue not inherently more prone to problems than a full-splice? Even though I'm not a cuemaker, when I look at what a cuemaker has to go through when making a half splice cue, there are plenty of opportunities for things to go wrong, whether in the making and finishing of the butt, or perhaps a few months or years down the road.

Do full-splice cues ever develop a buzz in the butt, the way not a few half-splice cues sometimes do? I suppose they could crack, perhaps if they are abused, but lacking that do they tend to develop other problems? I've had a few half-spliced ones, some with no problem, but there's a very nice looking Meucci with a great stack leather wrap that I have that has an odd sound every once in a while, and it's a bit unnerving.

Thanks!

Flex

You didn't hit any nerves of mine.

The simple version is:

what you are seeking is the feel of a solidly built butt.
Half-spliced or non-spliced cues are no more prone to problems
than fullspliced **IF they are built right**, they can, and do produce
that all important "feel" you seek.

OK now, everyone who is shocked that you have a ....Meucci....
that makes funny sounds, please raise his hand.

Dale<in the hands down position>

 

[desi2960]

i agree with willieecue 100%

Take your time and build a cue that you like. I'm just a novice i have built cues for about 7 years, 254 cues later i now think i know how i want to build my cues. I believe a builder needs to learn the basics, hightowers video or book, then make his own mistakes. I once superglued my sneaker to the floor putting on a finish. There is no one that can tell you the correct way for you to build a cue, they can tell you how they build a cue or how so and so builds a cue. Sure you can get tips on how to install a pin straight or how to use a spray gun, but the bottom line is how are you going to do it? I was once told that i could not build a cue with a wood pin in the butt, but what do you say to the 100 people using one of them today? The point i am trying to make is listen and learn all you can about the basics then build your cue the way that makes you happy. best of luck, chuck starkey

 

[ratcues]

Pics of some "A" joints.

Black

Old Palmer

Schon

Mail

Old Viking

 

[Flex]

You didn't hit any nerves of mine.

The simple version is:

what you are seeking is the feel of a solidly built butt.
Half-spliced or non-spliced cues are no more prone to problems
than fullspliced **IF they are built right**, they can, and do produce
that all important "feel" you seek.

OK now, everyone who is shocked that you have a ....Meucci....
that makes funny sounds, please raise his hand.

Dale<in the hands down position>

I threw that Meucci line in there because I know lots of AZ members don't like them, and the stories of the handle in a Meucci loosening up, glue problems and so on have been well recounted here.

That Meuccis have had those and other problems is caused by poor construction methods and materials, from what I can tell. I paid $350 for my mooch some 4 odd years ago.

I currently own four full-splice sneakies, and have sold two others to friends, who love them.

Someone on here just PMed me with his prescription for making a half splice cue that feels like a full splice, but out of respect for him I won't be posting his ideas. If he wants to post, that's his business.

Would it really be that much work to use a full splice butt and core it approporiately to move the balance point where it's desired, and turn down the butt to sleeve it with whatever exotic woods are desired and so on, instead of going with a half splice? Wouldn't the full splice that is turned down to accept special rings and sleeves and inlays and so on retain that "full-splice feel"? Or is that beyond the capabilities of most cuemakers?

Flex

 

[ratcues]

Would it really be that much work to use a full splice butt and core it approporiately to move the balance point where it's desired, and turn down the butt to sleeve it with whatever exotic woods are desired and so on, instead of going with a half splice? Wouldn't the full splice that is turned down to accept special rings and sleeves and inlays and so on retain that "full-splice feel"? Or is that beyond the capabilities of most cuemakers?

Flex

That's a good question. I think that most cuemakers have an idea how to make a full splice but making a "good" one or making it with veneers is not as easy as it sounds. A short splice offers more variety with woods, colors, veneers, and so on.

 

[pdcue]

I threw that Meucci line in there because I know lots of AZ members don't like them, and the stories of the handle in a Meucci loosening up, glue problems and so on have been well recounted here.

That Meuccis have had those and other problems is caused by poor construction methods and materials, from what I can tell. I paid $350 for my mooch some 4 odd years ago.

I currently own four full-splice sneakies, and have sold two others to friends, who love them.

Someone on here just PMed me with his prescription for making a half splice cue that feels like a full splice, but out of respect for him I won't be posting his ideas. If he wants to post, that's his business.

Would it really be that much work to use a full splice butt and core it approporiately to move the balance point where it's desired, and turn down the butt to sleeve it with whatever exotic woods are desired and so on, instead of going with a half splice? Wouldn't the full splice that is turned down to accept special rings and sleeves and inlays and so on retain that "full-splice feel"? Or is that beyond the capabilities of most cuemakers?

Flex

Same question, different angle.

It's not beyond the capability of anyone who is a real cuemaker. Just like
making a halfsplice 'feel' like a fullsplice isn't.
FWIW - one can even make a halfsplice that is structurally
equivalent to a fullsplice, if you're clever enough.

Perhaps it is time to restate - not all fullsplice cues feel the same.
Like beauty in the eye of the beholder - the feel is in the hand <mind?>
of the cue holder.

As for coring a F/S butt - doesn't that sorta defeat the purpose of
using one in the first place.

At this point, IMHO it is obvious that you are so determened to beleive
in the "special" qualities of F/S butts that you won't be changing
your opinion anytime soon.

With all due respect - IMHO the reason many highly capable cuemakers,
who have made tons of top quality cues for 100s of knowledgable
players don't make F/S butts is only because they have determenrd
it doesn't improve the cue.

Dale

 

[Flex]

Same question, different angle.

It's not beyond the capability of anyone who is a real cuemaker. Just like
making a halfsplice 'feel' like a fullsplice isn't.
FWIW - one can even make a halfsplice that is structurally
equivalent to a fullsplice, if you're clever enough.

Perhaps it is time to restate - not all fullsplice cues feel the same.
Like beauty in the eye of the beholder - the feel is in the hand <mind?>
of the cue holder.

As for coring a F/S butt - doesn't that sorta defeat the purpose of
using one in the first place.


At this point, IMHO it is obvious that you are so determened to beleive
in the "special" qualities of F/S butts that you won't be changing
your opinion anytime soon.

With all due respect - IMHO the reason many highly capable cuemakers,
who have made tons of top quality cues for 100s of knowledgable
players don't make F/S butts is only because they have determenrd
it doesn't improve the cue.

Dale

As I don't know how to separate those sections into individual quotes, I'll try to answer/respond/ask-a-question by using the same color as the quote.


The reason I asked about coring the butt is that Varney suggested that's how he'd "race up" a cue... and then inserting a weight in some ABS to move the balance point forward. I don't have any idea how this might affect the hit of the cue.



I'm not absolutely wedded to the idea that a butt needs to be full splice. I just like the feel. If that feel, that kind of vibration that feels alive can be achieved in other ways, fine by me.


Regarding the making of very high quality cues, what I've read from several cuemakers is that making full splice blanks is not easy, quite a pain actually. Apparently there are not a few cuemakers who use either Schmelke or Prather full splice blanks for their full splice cues. As I'm not a cuemaker and do not intend to ever try to be one, who ever makes such a blank isn't important to me, so long as it looks good and plays fine.

At this link http://www.bearcues.com/fullsplicecue.htm there is an explanation about the difference between full splice and half splice cues. With all due respect, what's your take on that explanation?

I really appreciate your taking the time to answer my questions on all these things.

Rep will be headed your way, soon!

Flex

 

[ratcues]

At this link http://www.bearcues.com/fullsplicecue.htm there is an explanation about the difference between full splice and half splice cues. With all due respect, what's your take on that explanation?
[/COLOR]
Flex

He has a very good explanation in there and I agree. The natural vibration(feedback) will be more interrupted in a short splice due to the flat face and a metal "A" joining screw. I also believe that to be true when using a metal joint collar, mass of the male pin, type of wood, etc. Using that logic, and I do, a one piece cue will have better feedback than a two piece cue. The more "stuff" you use in the construction of a cue, the more it effects the proverbial "feel." Not saying that is good or bad, just that it has an effect.

Along these lines, I'd like to throw this out for discussion. Look at the pics I posted. The Black is a full splice with a flat joint to maple in the handle as opposed to the Palmer that is also a full splice but uses a "V" splice into maple for the handle. Will the Palmer transfer the "feel" better than the Black?

 

[Newton]

He has a very good explanation in there and I agree. The natural vibration(feedback) will be more interrupted in a short splice due to the flat face and a metal "A" joining screw. I also believe that to be true when using a metal joint collar, mass of the male pin, type of wood, etc. Using that logic, and I do, a one piece cue will have better feedback than a two piece cue. The more "stuff" you use in the construction of a cue, the more it effects the proverbial "feel." Not saying that is good or bad, just that it has an effect.

Along these lines, I'd like to throw this out for discussion. Look at the pics I posted. The Black is a full splice with a flat joint to maple in the handle as opposed to the Palmer that is also a full splice but uses a "V" splice into maple for the handle. Will the Palmer transfer the "feel" better than the Black?

I do appreciate very much the posted pictures. These learned me a lot.

When it comes to feel I have no clue on how these different versions would feel. I guess even the Mali (I guess in stead of Mail) looks like a one pice butt where the some V grooves has been made just to "look spliced". This would eliminate I guess both the full splice and the half splice which may of course be even more different?

My X ray picture on page 1 of this thread show a normal "half spliced" cue and another which I thought was a "full splice". The "full splice" has however a metal joint in the middle of the spliced section which I have no idea on how they managed to put it together. But it hit's nice even if it has a cavity in there...

But I guess we are migrating from the threads topic and possibly are in for a "hi-jack" now..

N