Techniques generating a more powerful break (greater than 22MPH) ...Anyone?

TrumanHW said:
Have you guys seen De Lunas break? It's ridiculous. Do you think the hardest breakers worked at it? Or that most were naturals?

Thanks a ton to all of those of you whom I didn't mention. As I said, I'm going to compile a list of the best suggestions as well as those things I discover along the way and create a useful post of my own, I hope.

Thanks all.
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Some people are naturally good breakers, but I am fairly certain all the great breakers in the game have worked on it to some extent.
 
8onthebreak said:
I purchased a break Rak and posted my findings and progress here...also, some great advice from others in the thread.
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=315712

I have found that the wrist provides just as much power as the arm, but is much more controllable. Control is so much more important than power. A squatted 21 mph break devastates a rack.
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Yes, exactly ! I watched a pro decimate someone in the finals with a very controlled break about a year ago. So I started trying different things and discovered how much power I can still generate without moving any other part of my body or my head, other than my right arm. Which allows me to deliver a consistent, accurate, repeatable break.

I haven't tried this new break on a break rack yet ( hopefully next week in Vegas I can) but I would bet I'm close to 22 mph. I was able to hit 29 mph last year at in Vegas throwing everything I had at it. .
 
TrumanHW said:
On Airline, right? Played there last time I was there with the guy who worked there I believe. Its a tough diamond we played on... Last time before that I was there, it was with Schmidt who stayed with me and snapped off that tournament. I believe he and Jaime discussed matching up but didnt. Jaime's seemed like a good guy also.

As far as typical speed, I of course want to have the ability to hit them hard when the table is tough, but want a generally solid 20-23 that's very controlled. I'm almost there now... but would love to have the option of getting over 25 -- and am very interested in what the process will be arriving there.

What really blows me away is that some people never have to do all this analysis... they just "get it".

I really wish there was a "like" button here as on FB ... it's a lot more practical to endorse peoples ideas than to reply to each and every one.

My grandmother is the owner of CD Inc - so there's a fair chance we may know people in common.

The work you did with JJ during the OP Of Efren v Shannon was wonderful, as was that with Billy. 3 of my absolute fav matches. Thanks for those.

TW
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Thanks for the kind words about my commentary with Jeremy Jones and Billy Inacardona. That has proven to be much easier than hitting 23 mph on the break. :D

We have a guy who can't run a rack, is overweight by a large margin, but who consistently hits above 22 mph on virtually every single break. Some people DO "just get it" and others like you and I have to work our nutz off. It's all good. It's a journey brother.

There a little button to the lower left side of each post that you read (mine has a small horizontal blue bar) where you can click on it and it gives "rep" to the person that made the post. The little button on the right of that is for reporting posts that are against forum policies. When you click the left button, you can also leave a short message of appreciation or acknowledgment. The person receiving the rep can go to their "User CP
" and read their received "rep". So the closest thing we have to a "Like" button is the "Rep" button.

Have fun. I sent you some REP for wanting to improve your break and asking all the right questions, the right way.

JoeyA
 
I got some lessons from Tony Marcino, and one trick that opened my eyes is to slide your grip hand forward,
to the front of the wrap. When you take practice swings, get very close to the CB (millimeters)
and when you're all the way forward, the back arm should be bent quite a bit at the elbow.

At this point, if you just use your arm and nothing else, you won't get much power.
Imagine your arm swinging and bending at the elbow as you deliver the cue.
Your arm power sort of maxes out when the forearm is straight up and down
at the moment you impact the cue ball.
If it makes contact after that point, when your elbow is fully bent, it's weaker.

So why do we start out with your elbow fully bent, if that's weaker?
Because if you put your body into it and lunge forward, pushing off your back foot,
your grip hand's shoulder and upper arm will come along for the ride.
At the moment of impact, they will be much further forward than they were
when you started. So now the elbow won't be fully bent anymore.

If you time your lunge and swing so that the stick contacts the ball at the moment
when your forearm is pointing roughly straight up and down at the floor... you're going
to get tons of force. That's the 'timing' thing people talk about in your break.
If you lunge and then swing early, the elbow is bent too much. If you swing late, it isn't bent enough.

This lunging motion allowed me to crack 23, but it does take practice.
You may feel like the tip is pulling back through your bridge too far or hitting the CB wildly
because there's so much extra motion in your break. But if you get a square hit just once you'll
be amazed at the difference, it's like an extra 5mph with hardly any strain.
 
CreeDo said:
I got some lessons from Tony Marcino, and one trick that opened my eyes is to slide your grip hand forward,
to the front of the wrap. When you take practice swings, get very close to the CB (millimeters)
and when you're all the way forward, the back arm should be bent quite a bit at the elbow.

At this point, if you just use your arm and nothing else, you won't get much power.
Imagine your arm swinging and bending at the elbow as you deliver the cue.
Your arm power sort of maxes out when the forearm is straight up and down
at the moment you impact the cue ball.
If it makes contact after that point, when your elbow is fully bent, it's weaker.

So why do we start out with your elbow fully bent, if that's weaker?
Because if you put your body into it and lunge forward, pushing off your back foot,
your grip hand's shoulder and upper arm will come along for the ride.
At the moment of impact, they will be much further forward than they were
when you started. So now the elbow won't be fully bent anymore.

If you time your lunge and swing so that the stick contacts the ball at the moment
when your forearm is pointing roughly straight up and down at the floor... you're going
to get tons of force. That's the 'timing' thing people talk about in your break.
If you lunge and then swing early, the elbow is bent too much. If you swing late, it isn't bent enough.

This lunging motion allowed me to crack 23, but it does take practice.
You may feel like the tip is pulling back through your bridge too far or hitting the CB wildly
because there's so much extra motion in your break. But if you get a square hit just once you'll
be amazed at the difference, it's like an extra 5mph with hardly any strain.
Click to expand...

We have a couple of guys that break well and their forearm seems to stay bent (going backward and forward) and they just drop their elbow with a slight lunge. I haven't been able to get that technique down pat but they regularly hit 21-24 mph and look like they aren't straining to do it. Looks like they use less energy on their break than I do.
 
measureman said:
Bingo we have a winner.I am 66 years old and 5'9" 170 pounds and not a strong person.
But i can break consistently at 20 mph using a boxing type of break. In other words I let the big muscles of the legs generate the power and speed.
Pretty much like throwing a right hand punch by turning the body into it.
It does require some practice to get everything moving correctly at the same time. But after you get some muscle memory it's really easy.
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Truman, Watch Louie break, this description reminds me of his break to a T.
 
I recently purchased the TAR breaking Shane's way. It wasn't what I expected, but very informative. It's more about the importance of control and concistancy, not speed. He states that he usually only puts 75% power behind the break because any harder and you lose control of the cb.

Also watch the 2013 USBTC nine ball final with SVB v Orcullo. Mostly soft breaking, but the table layout was basically the same every rack.

I'd rather have a run out staring me in the face with a 19mph break than hit 25 mph
 
LuckyStroke said:
I recently purchased the TAR breaking Shane's way. It wasn't what I expected, but very informative. It's more about the importance of control and concistancy, not speed. He states that he usually only puts 75% power behind the break because any harder and you lose control of the cb.

Also watch the 2013 USBTC nine ball final with SVB v Orcullo. Mostly soft breaking, but the table layout was basically the same every rack.

I'd rather have a run out staring me in the face with a 19mph break than hit 25 mph
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They were using magic racks. If you dont have one of those you are better off breaking hard to increase the odds of making a ball.
 
TrumanHW said:
Joey, I'm FROM Gretna. My whole family lives out there. Heard of Carlo Ditta Inc.?

Ahhh, New Orleans. $4 an hour pool, open all night..... You ever played at Honey's? lol

I am on the verge of buying a break rak. I've been eyeing it for a while... I want to split it with a few friends ideally... or maybe just leave it at hard times and rent it out for $20 per hour. :)
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buy a break rack, best $$$ you can spend in pool on a training aid. :):)
 
JoeyA said:
We have a couple of guys that break well and their forearm seems to stay bent (going backward and forward) and they just drop their elbow with a slight lunge. I haven't been able to get that technique down pat but they regularly hit 21-24 mph and look like they aren't straining to do it. Looks like they use less energy on their break than I do.
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Recently I was at an event that had the super nice breakrak with the built-in radar. One of the guys on here who can hit 30 wasn't having much success with it (though he did better than me). Then a smallish guy did exactly as you described, his break looked like a sudden stabby motion with very little body lunge, and he was going 25 over and over.

I dunno what that is. No idea at all. It's tempting to just write it off as "he was born with more fast twitch muscle fibers" or something but maybe anyone can get there with hours of practice.
 
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