Ten Ball Rule Question

J

Jeff Rosen

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I'm in the Mega Bucks Pool League of New York. We play alternate week 8, 9, & 10 Ball. In 10 Ball they have a rule that if one doesn't call safety and misses a shot his opponent can give the ball back to him. They said it's a ten ball rule and the pros play with that rule. Now I've seen scores of live streams and YouTubes of the pros playing 10 Ball and have been to a number of pro tournaments at Steinway and Raxx and have never seen any pro asking a shooter to shoot again after a miss, even when their object ball is completely blocked except on a push. Is that a 10 Ball rule and if so why do we never see the pros use it.
Unfortunately as a three (we use same skill levels as APA) I was playing an eight who in my opinion is one of the best players to hide the cue ball of anyone I've ever seen and his whole strategy was to just play safeties and get me on three fouls. It's bad enough for me to get fouls when they snooker me but then to foul when I snooker myself. In the race to 11 I lost 6 games on three fouls alone!!!
 
Yeah its not in the standard BCA rules - its a rule they started using / created for the 'predator tour' or something like that ?? Personally I think it should be a rule for the pro's only...
 
it eliminates totally the lucky factor, I think it is used in 15ball american rotation. I have never seen it in 10ball, amateur or pro, even in 10ball Derby City Classic 2014 pros played without calling the shot...
 
mamics said:
Yeah its not in the standard BCA rules - its a rule they started using / created for the 'predator tour' or something like that ?? Personally I think it should be a rule for the pro's only...
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Interesting, as the Mega Bucks league operators say they are following BCA rules.
 
That's one of the rules that goes back and forth in 10 ball. It has it's benefits.

No-one wants to see a called shot game get luck injected by a miss where you have no clean shot as the incoming player. You basically are penalized because the other guy missed. It's like those bar 8 ball rules where you get ball in hand only behind the line and the 8 ball is there, so you need to kick at it. The other guy scratches but you are in a worse position because of it.

What I like is an option to push out if you are the incoming player and that happens. It's a good compromise between having to kick/jump for him and having the other guy take over where HE is hooked. Call safe, no pass back. Call a shot but miss, guy can push out or shoot.
 
Yes un-called safes and two way shots (as long as you don't make a ball) are allowed in the standard WPA and BCA rules. As far as I know, the rule that allows an option to pass or shoot after an opponent's miss is only used in certain tournaments (like the Predator Tour) in the US. I've never seen them used anywhere here in Asia.
 
frigopie said:
it eliminates totally the lucky factor, I think it is used in 15ball american rotation. I have never seen it in 10ball, amateur or pro, even in 10ball Derby City Classic 2014 pros played without calling the shot...
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It's standard in the WPA rules, and I love it. Its the way all games should be played.

I absolutely hate being responsible for someone elses mistake; I never play without the option.

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WPA Rules

9.6 Safety
The shooter, after the break at anytime may call “safety” which permits him to make contact with the legal object ball without pocketing a ball and end his inning. However, if the shooter pockets the legal object ball the incoming player has the option to play the shot as left, or hand it back to his opponent. (See 9.7 Wrongfully Pocketed Balls which also applies during a safety.)

9.7 Wrongfully Pocketed Balls
If a player misses his intended ball and pocket, and either makes the nominated ball in the wrong pocket or pockets another ball, his inning has finished and the incoming player has the option to take the shot as is, or hand it back to his opponent.
 
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It's pretty pathetic that they're using the 3 foul rule at your skill level.

What a waste of time. I would be much more upset about that then about the miss shot -- give back the table thingy.

The 3 foul rule was never intended to be a way for people to win a match, but just to speed things up a bit. When players are using that rule to actually continually three foul someone in a league setting something needs to be changed. I would complain about that or find a different league.
 
nataddrho said:
It's standard in the WPA rules, and I love it. Its the way all games should be played.

I absolutely hate being responsible for someone elses mistake; I never play without the option.

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WPA Rules

9.6 Safety
The shooter, after the break at anytime may call “safety” which permits him to make contact with the legal object ball without pocketing a ball and end his inning. However, if the shooter pockets the legal object ball the incoming player has the option to play the shot as left, or hand it back to his opponent. (See 9.7 Wrongfully Pocketed Balls which also applies during a safety.)

9.7 Wrongfully Pocketed Balls
If a player misses his intended ball and pocket, and either makes the nominated ball in the wrong pocket or pockets another ball, his inning has finished and the incoming player has the option to take the shot as is, or hand it back to his opponent.
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I totally agree. Why would you want to play any other way?
 
I think of the rule possibilities in ascending order of difficulty:

1. No call. Common in 9-ball. Everything counts and you don't need to call anything. High element of luck.

2. Call Shot. Typical in 8-ball and 10-ball. Call the intended ball and intended pocket. A missed shot (without a foul) results in opponent's turn, even if he's snookered behind a ball.

3. Call Shot/Call Safe. If you call a shot, and miss, your opponent has the option whether to shoot the next shot or make you shoot it.

I prefer 2. Call Shot because I think there's a real skill in recognizing and playing a two-way shot. Plus, I'm not very good so I need to get a lucky roll every once in a while :D

It seems like 80% of pro 10-ball matches are Call Shot and 20% are Call Shot/Call Safe.
 
I play many two way shots. I don't like this rule. You should be able to call a two way shot. Luck leaves are different though. If I call a ball and say I am putting cue ball behind this cluster In case I miss should be allowed.
 
fasted71465 said:
I play many two way shots. I don't like this rule. You should be able to call a two way shot. Luck leaves are different though. If I call a ball and say I am putting cue ball behind this cluster In case I miss should be allowed.
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Gotta pick one, that's the price of a fair game :)
 
nataddrho said:
It's standard in the WPA rules, and I love it. Its the way all games should be played.

I absolutely hate being responsible for someone elses mistake; I never play without the option.
---
WPA Rules

9.6 Safety
The shooter, after the break at anytime may call “safety” which permits him to make contact with the legal object ball without pocketing a ball and end his inning. However, if the shooter pockets the legal object ball the incoming player has the option to play the shot as left, or hand it back to his opponent. (See 9.7 Wrongfully Pocketed Balls which also applies during a safety.)

9.7 Wrongfully Pocketed Balls
If a player misses his intended ball and pocket, and either makes the nominated ball in the wrong pocket or pockets another ball, his inning has finished and the incoming player has the option to take the shot as is, or hand it back to his opponent.
Click to expand...

Ummm - am I missing something ?
Why is there a pass back option after a wrongfully pocketed ball (BCA & WPA), but a 'lucky' safety after a clean miss doesn't have a pass back option ? (seems like 'half arsed' call safe rules ?)
Cheers.
 
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mamics said:
Ummm - am I missing something ?
Why is there a pass back option after a wrongfully pocketed ball (BCA & WPA), but a 'lucky' safety after a clean miss doesn't have a pass back option ? (seems like 'half arsed' call safe rules ?)
Cheers.
Click to expand...

A lucky-safety-after-a-miss DOES have the pass back option.

Think of it this way:

Incoming player always has the option to pass back unless
1) you made a called ball or
2) you called a safe and executed it without pocketing any balls.

BIH on a foul otherwise.
 
Essentially the WPA world standardized rules (which the BCA rules follow verbatim) allow for the two-way shot, while the so called WPA+ rules don't. In so doing it also allows for the lucky safety to occur.

The WPA+ rules (i.e. option any ANY miss, used on the east coast Predator tour) have also been used on and off at a few other events, most notably on and off the last 2-3 years at the SBE. Allen Hopkins included these rules as a concession to the ABP, which came out and stated this is the way they want 10 Ball to be played in order for an event to be ABP sanctioned.
 
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