Ten ball safety rule - WPA

Jobba786

Jobba786

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Ten ball safety rule.
I think this rule 9.6 (safety) is hard to understand. According 9.6 no ball has to be driven to the rail after contact with the legal object ball. Is this correct, and if not why should a player call sefety, it is not a foul to miss the pocket as long as a ball is driven to the rail after legal object is hit. By calling safety you only gain a disadvantage that the opponent may hand the turn back to you if you pocket a ball.
http://www.wpa-pool.com/web/index.asp?id=121&pagetype=rules#3.6
What do I get wrong here...?
 
Jobba786 said:
Ten ball safety rule.
I think this rule 9.6 (safety) is hard to understand. According 9.6 no ball has to be driven to the rail after contact with the legal object ball. Is this correct, and if not why should a player call sefety, it is not a foul to miss the pocket as long as a ball is driven to the rail after legal object is hit. By calling safety you only gain a disadvantage that the opponent may hand the turn back to you if you pocket a ball.
http://www.wpa-pool.com/web/index.asp?id=121&pagetype=rules#3.6
What do I get wrong here...?
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I take back what I posted ....because now the rule is confusing me ....but i don't see the rule about the rail on a safety ...so I assume you have to hit the rail on a safety ....
 
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If you do not have to hit the rail after the object ball, I understand. It was not stated neither in 9.6 nor in fouls or general fouls.

Rule 9.4 about push out states clearly that "no rail after contact" is suspended, so strange they do not state it about the safety.

Anyway thank you!
 
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Jobba786 said:
If you do not have to hit the rail after the object ball, I understand. It was not stated neither in 9.6 nor in fouls or general fouls.

Rule 9.4 about push out states clearly that "no rail after contact" is suspended, so strange they do not state it about the safety.

Anyway thank you!
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Read 6.3 General Rules
 
I think basically it is saying that "if" you call safe on a legal object ball and pocket that ball....you do not have the option to continue play. It is up to the opponent to make that decision.

If you call safe, you still have to hit a rail except for a push out. If you call safe and do not hit the legal object ball or a rail, BIH is enforced with 6.3 ruling.
 
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6.3 No Rail after Contact
If no ball is pocketed on a shot, the cue ball must contact an object ball, and after that contact at least one ball (cue ball or any object ball) must be driven to a rail, or the shot is a foul. (See 8.4 Driven to a Rail.)

Doesn't say anything about safe shot. Push-out rule states that this 6.3 rule is suspended. Safe rule doesn't say that the ball has to hit to rail nor that the 6.3 is supended.

If you have to hit the rail, to call a safety has only the disadvantage that the opponent can chose if ball is pocketed (which they anyway can do when a ball is pocketed in wrong pocket)

And we all agree that it is not a foul not to pocket the legal object ball.

There is no logic then, as far as I can see.
 
Jobba786 said:
6.3 No Rail after Contact
If no ball is pocketed on a shot, the cue ball must contact an object ball, and after that contact at least one ball (cue ball or any object ball) must be driven to a rail, or the shot is a foul. (See 8.4 Driven to a Rail.)

Doesn't say anything about safe shot. Push-out rule states that this 6.3 rule is suspended. Safe rule doesn't say that the ball has to hit to rail nor that the 6.3 is supended.

If you have to hit the rail, to call a safety has only the disadvantage that the opponent can chose if ball is pocketed (which they anyway can do when a ball is pocketed in wrong pocket)

And we all agree that it is not a foul not to pocket the legal object ball.

There is no logic then, as far as I can see.
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6.3 comes under General Rules for both 9 ball and 10 ball. It states that you have to hit a rail after contact with either OB, another ball after the OB contacts it, or the CB or opponent get BIH.

They didn't want to re-write all the rules for 10 ball if they were already listed in section 6.

Don't read too much into it. BIH rules still apply for all fouls. 9.6 is just clarifying the pocketed ball after safety is called. Doesn't eliminate any other rules already in effect in the game.
 
I'm not sure where you are getting confused. Rule 9.6 doesn't state a ball must hit a rail on a safety because that is covered in the rules regarding illegal shots and fouls. On a safety the shooter must still execute a legal shot. The reason it is mentioned in the pushout rule is to over ride this general requirement.

If you mistakenly pocket a ball on a safety it is not a disadvantage because the opponent can hand any shot back to you if you illegally pocket a ball, safety or not.
 
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But then it has to be a foul not pocketing, but rule 9.8 says: If the shooter fails to pocket the called ball or fouls, play passes to the other player, and if no foul was committed, the incoming player must play the
cue ball from the position left by the other player.

My answer was to your post before editing, DogsPlayingPool
 
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klockdoc said:
6.3 comes under General Rules for both 9 ball and 10 ball. It states that you have to hit a rail after contact with either OB, another ball after the OB contacts it, or the CB or opponent get BIH.

They didn't want to re-write all the rules for 10 ball if they were already listed in section 6.

Don't read too much into it. BIH rules still apply for all fouls. 9.6 is just clarifying the pocketed ball after safety is called. Doesn't eliminate any other rules already in effect in the game.
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But why call safety then? If you pocket the ball legaly, you continue, if you don't and do not make any foul, the opponent has to play. If you call safety and do not pocket, just the same as calling and not pocketing. If you call safety and pocket, the opponent may choose.

I cannot see what you gain by calling safety.
 
Jobba786 said:
But then it has to be a foul not pocketing, but rule 9.8 says: If the shooter fails to pocket the called ball or fouls, play passes to the other player, and if no foul was committed, the incoming player must play the
cue ball from the position left by the other player.
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Spoken just as the game is played. When you miss, play goes to the other player. If you foul, then you have BIH.

Safety play doesn't say you have to make the ball. If you do, it passes to the opponent. You do not get to play on. IF you shoot a ball straight into the pocket (I do not know why you would call safe in this case) and do not hit a rail, (ball stops before falling) it is BIH for the opponent.

If you call safe and bank the ball two rails and it glances off another ball and drops in the pocket, you do not shoot again....it is up to the opponent to take the shot or pass back to you. If you are hooked on the next ball you can bet you will be shooting. :smile:
 
Jobba786 said:
But why call safety then? If you pocket the ball legaly, you continue, if you don't and do not make any foul, the opponent has to play. If you call safety and do not pocket, just the same as calling and not pocketing. If you call safety and pocket, the opponent may choose.

I cannot see what you gain by calling safety.
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As I stated in my other post, I think the pocketed ball comes into play when it is accidentally knocked into a pocket.

8.17 Safety Shot
A shot is said to be a safety shot if the game in play is a call shot game and the shooter declared the shot to the referee or his opponent to be a “safety” before the shot. Play passes to the other player at the end of a safety shot.

Hope this helps. Call shot game.
 
Based on the safety shot being used in a call shot game. Many a player will call safety on a shot whereas if pocketed, it leads to nowhere.

Meaning that even if he makes the shot in sequence, there is not a good shot on the next ball. So, he will try to place the shot in a better position for a breakout, while possibly hooking you in order to get BIH. 9.6 simply covers a situation where the ball is pocketed during that safety play.
 
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I have written to WPA to clearify the rule.

Calling a shot:
1. you pocket legally and continue
2. you miss (do not pocket) but do not make any foul, other player HAS to play from position
3. you make a foul, ball in hand
4. you pocket wrong ball or legal ball in wrong pocket, the other player may choose

Safety:
1. you pocket a ball, the other player may choose
2. you miss but do not make any foul, other player HAS to play from position
3. you make a foul, ball in hand
4. not available

I cannot see an advantage there. The only difference is if you pocket a ball in a pocket that you could have called, you give the other player the option to choose.
 
klockdoc said:
Based on the safety shot being used in a call shot game. Many a player will call safety on a shot whereas if pocketed, it leads to nowhere.

Meaning that even if he makes the shot in sequence, there is not a good shot on the next ball. So, he will try to place the shot in a better position for a breakout, while possibly hooking you in order to get BIH.
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But if you make the ball, the other player may choose unlike 8-ball where he has to take the shot.
 
Jobba786 said:
But why call safety then? If you pocket the ball legaly, you continue, if you don't and do not make any foul, the opponent has to play. If you call safety and do not pocket, just the same as calling and not pocketing. If you call safety and pocket, the opponent may choose.

I cannot see what you gain by calling safety.
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There may be situations where you know you don't want to have to play the following shot. If you inadvertently make the shot you must continue but if you call a safety and knock a ball in your opponent may choose to take the table instead of giving it back to you.

But I get what you are saying and safety play has a more integral role when 10 Ball is played with the option available to the incoming player on ALL misses (whether a ball falls or not).
 
You may use the safety, pocket a ball and hope that the other player takes a hard shot (not giving it back to you) - this option for the opponent is different from 8-ball rules

If you do not pocket a ball, there is no difference between calling a pocket or safety. - exactly as 8-ball


And I do not believe that this is the intention with the 10-ball rules. I know they have been changed, but this makes no sense to me.
 
Jobba786 said:
I have written to WPA to clearify the rule.

Calling a shot:
1. you pocket legally and continue
2. you miss (do not pocket) but do not make any foul, other player HAS to play from position
3. you make a foul, ball in hand
4. you pocket wrong ball or legal ball in wrong pocket, the other player may choose

Safety:
1. you pocket a ball, the other player may choose
2. you miss but do not make any foul, other player HAS to play from position
3. you make a foul, ball in hand
4. not available

I cannot see an advantage there. The only difference is if you pocket a ball in a pocket that you could have called, you give the other player the option to choose.
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You can't see an advantage where? Calling safety?

The only reason that you are calling safety is because the game is a "call shot" game. You have to call your pocket. If you cannot pocket a ball, you call safe so the referee knows your action.
 
Jobba786 said:
You may use the safety, pocket a ball and hope that the other player takes a hard shot (not giving it back to you) - this option for the opponent is different from 8-ball rules

If you do not pocket a ball, there is no difference between calling a pocket or safety. - exactly as 8-ball


And I do not believe that this is the intention with the 10-ball rules. I know they have been changed, but this makes no sense to me.
Click to expand...

Good luck with that thought. ;)
 
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