Tenons/ferrules
- Thread starter GoldCrown
- Start date
Enigmaticul
Banned
Well there are 2 ways to install new ferrules on tenons.
You can do threaded tenons in which case you will need a compression die to cut the threads on the tenon. You can find these dies at cue components and other cue supply websites.
The second way is to just cut a straight tenon and slide a new ferrule like a sleeve.
Use good glue like epoxy (gorilla, loctite, defcon)
Also ferrules, I buy the threaded and capped ones from cue components and always do threaded ferrules. The ferrules already come bored and threaded to match the same threads as your compression die.
I will make a small instructional video soon on how to install a ferulle.
You can do threaded tenons in which case you will need a compression die to cut the threads on the tenon. You can find these dies at cue components and other cue supply websites.
The second way is to just cut a straight tenon and slide a new ferrule like a sleeve.
Use good glue like epoxy (gorilla, loctite, defcon)
Also ferrules, I buy the threaded and capped ones from cue components and always do threaded ferrules. The ferrules already come bored and threaded to match the same threads as your compression die.
I will make a small instructional video soon on how to install a ferulle.
So much lack of information. This is why you'r previous thread turned the direction it did.
Compression dies only work when done fast, otherwise there is a huge chance you'll just rip the threads apart.
Mid size lathe with drill chuck? Is that the lathe with the chuck mounted directly on the motor? Before I provide more helping information, oriented for a real lathe, I need to know if your using a real lathe or that bastardized one from eBay.
MidAmericaPool large pro bore. Just got it. I can tip and refinish. I saw a tenon kit. Had a bit, compression threader and fluted dowels. Aside from ferrules is that a good start or do I need other stuff? I have been watching C. Hightowers vids and have his cue book.
I suggest using 3/8 dowels to plug up the shaft in replacing that tenon.
That way you can turn down the tenon to 5/16 after installing on the shaft.
Bore the hole about .001.002" smaller than the 3/8 fluted dowel .
http://uniqueinc.com/inc/sdetail/721/820
If you use compression die to threat 5/16 18 tenon, you'll have to turn the tenon down around .280-.285".
Better yet, buy the threading attachment for the lathe.
It took me three slow turns to thread a 7/8" long .280" by 18 when I had a toy lathe.
Wax it, turn the chuck by hand , create 3-4 threads, back out , and start again.
If I did it on one pass, threads got mangled.
I lost my last post I was trying to create, but my problem with the compression die, is that when I went to back out going slow, that's where I ripped the threads apart. Going faster, in one go on a lathe is how I got good threads to form. Personally, I'd prefer to have a live threading setup myself, makes everything easier.
There's a YouTube video out there that talks about threading a tenon. Talks about both live threading and compression dies. I can't find it myself right now, think someone from the forum made it.
But, listen to Joey when he says use a 3/8 dowel. That way you can create a more true center when you cut it down to 5/16.
As for a CueTec ferrule, is the one that broke off in good condition? Reusable condition? Was it threaded on to begin with? Is the person the repair is for, are they wanting to keep the hit the same, or improve it for a break cue? The current ferrule is listed as being a poly-carbonate.
As far as glues go, epoxy, super glue, wood glue all work. Just look at the batch codes on the glue, make sure its fresh and hasn't been sitting on the shelf for a few years. Obviously the super glue is going to be the fastest, but I don't use it for a threaded or capped ferrule, to many gaps to fill. Epoxy and wood glue will fill the gaps well. People have brought up the issue that wood glue likes to fail after a few years, but there are other factors that contribute to that. A good 5 minute epoxy is my choice, though it could be argued that a 30 minute is better.
The CueTec is my shaft. The tenon was threaded but needs to be replaced. A break shaft set up would ok.
Go watch as many of these videos as you can. Covers a lot of the knowledge needed to know about doing a proper ferrule install. What it doesn't tell you is how to use your lathe to do it. Comes close to covering a lot of things, but some you will learn by just using the lathe.
I believe you are referring to the YouTubes that Bob Dzuricky (DZCues) has done. He has one (or more) for live threading and one for a compression die - under power! I haven't tried that yet, but it works for him.
:thumbup:
Gary
First of all, if Todd hasn't already contacted you with help, I would expect him to soon. He's good people.
As far as other stuff - get some wax - beeswax or parafin - to lubricate the wood when your forming the threads. When I first tried to use a compression die, I had the same problem, threads not clean and getting torn up. Two pieces of good info I received on here - 1) turn your tenon blank down to .283 or even .280, smaller than for a metal cutting die. And 2) use wax on the wood. I replied "WAX!?! Epoxy is not going to adhere to wax!
) But I was assured "Try it, you'll like it:smile:" I did try it and I did like it!!One thing you have to remember is that a compression die doesn't cut threads, it "compresses" them or forms them - very little cutting going on, so it is different than using a metal cutting die on a metal dowel.
The other thing I have learned is to use the alignment bar that comes with your tenon threader to keep the die in line with the dowel being threaded. Chamfer off the leading edge of the tenon dowel so the threader can get a grip to start.
It just takes practice.
HTH
Gary
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I tried searching from my phone, couldn't find it. Came to my computer, pulled up YouTube, dug through my past watches, and found it. I just linked his entire channel. It's easier than way than listing every single video that's applicable to this.
I had them saved for a while now.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JVAyMQj1DqI
and this one
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p6M7EEqHsM0
Enigmaticul
Banned
Yes live threads are the best I totally agree but the setup is very expensive and it takes a good metal lathe capable of cutting threads. We are talking thousands. This is the problem I have with people bashing others over cheaper ways of installing with the minimum required tools. I have ripped my fair share of tenons because I rushed it. As long as you wax the tenon and cut it to the exact dimensions ( there is a guide on the back side of the compression die) and go slow in couple of turns back out again, go back in slow and so on you should be fine. You don't always need to buy a plane to get the free peanuts. I am the kind of person that will buy the minimum necessary to do the job good. I can't afford to over kill.
Bob from Dz cues is a amazing cue maker and he can afford crazy good lathes and cnc. I mean the guy cuts ferrules with cnc. I wish one day I will afford that kind of setup ( my work will definitely be better) but until the , compression dye, wax and patience.
Bob from Dz cues is a amazing cue maker and he can afford crazy good lathes and cnc. I mean the guy cuts ferrules with cnc. I wish one day I will afford that kind of setup ( my work will definitely be better) but until the , compression dye, wax and patience.
I use a different compression die than most,mine is the aluminum Atlas style.
I saw pics on Bob's page of a tenon he did with a compression die,and they looked so much nicer than mine I had to know what was what.
I emailed him,he emailed me back and POOF,he posted that video of him actually using the die. So,in a way you can thank me too
.
The dies work if used properly,but you still have to tweak the ferrule to get a good,solid fit,so you don't have to use excess glue.
I too,want to start live-threading,but my main repair lathe isn't up to it yet,and I'm not sure my Deluxe can be adapted to Chris' threading setup. Tommy D.
I saw pics on Bob's page of a tenon he did with a compression die,and they looked so much nicer than mine I had to know what was what.
I emailed him,he emailed me back and POOF,he posted that video of him actually using the die. So,in a way you can thank me too
. The dies work if used properly,but you still have to tweak the ferrule to get a good,solid fit,so you don't have to use excess glue.
I too,want to start live-threading,but my main repair lathe isn't up to it yet,and I'm not sure my Deluxe can be adapted to Chris' threading setup. Tommy D.
Thanks Gary. I want to get very familiar with the lathe and bother Todd only as needed. I know he is there for me. He has a great rep. The purpose of this thread is to get a few different opinions, comments...whatever. You guys have been very informative. I'm learning. Thanks for sharing.
Negative rake taps and dies cut wood better than positive rake tools like used for steel.
The other difference is that due to the grain of the wood,you can not go as deep in the thread depth and generally require a coarser pitch.Hence all the modified versions of thread forms mainly having a larger root diameter, or the coarse 8 or so tpi thread forms.
There was a guy in Dec last year who had a thread about making threads on the taig type cue lathes, please excuse the pun. It could be worth looking into as well.
The other difference is that due to the grain of the wood,you can not go as deep in the thread depth and generally require a coarser pitch.Hence all the modified versions of thread forms mainly having a larger root diameter, or the coarse 8 or so tpi thread forms.
There was a guy in Dec last year who had a thread about making threads on the taig type cue lathes, please excuse the pun. It could be worth looking into as well.
Those are both good videos, thanks. Here is a link to Bob Dzuricky's entire library of YouTube videos - he's one of the most generous guys here with all of his expertise. Thanks Bob!
Also, in spite of other (mis)information, you don't need a metal lathe and the gears to do live threading. Searching on this site, you will find a number of live threading jigs that guys have come up with over the last couple of years.
Here are a couple:
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=338471&highlight=threading
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=285866&highlight=threading
But you're heading in the right direction, easy method first, followed by more advanced techniques. Trial and error and experience are your best teachers.
:thumbup:
Gary
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You can also buy a mini lathe for $600 and a bosh colt for about $110. Set up a bearing for a collet for rear holding and make or have a mount made for the colt, and you have a good tip and ferrule lathe and are set up for live threading for less than $1000.