That "Next" Level

D

DrCue'sProtege

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
how does one get to that so-called Next Level?

i am at a point in time where if i am playing good, i can break and run racks. however, if i am playing bad, its like i have never played before for the most part. last night i broke racks for 2 hours, tried running out, and managed to get out only one time. just one. now for the most part the balls, as always, didnt roll good for me, so i only had a handful of good chances. funny though, the night before i broke and ran the first rack i played.

anyway, you better players out there, how did you get to the Next Level? what can anyone recommend? i play/practice 2-4 hours a day, and its frustrating that i cant seem to see any noticeable difference. i suppose the following might help:

1) Competition. being from a small town there isnt much chance for regular competition, however.

2) Instruction. are there any good instructors out there that can "Fine Tune" your game and help get you started over the hump?

3) Watch & Learn. i do attend professional tournaments, buy tapes, record ESPN shows, buy teaching videos and books, etc, etc.

4) Good Equipment. i have a Gold Crown IV with Simonis 860, belgian balls, custom and production cues, etc, etc.

anyway, can some of you regular posters on here, the ones that are excellent players, make any recommendations? or have any thoughts here? i want to get to that "Next Level" but just cant seem to get there.

any thoughts would be appreciated.
DCP
 
DrCue'sProtege said:
2) Instruction. are there any good instructors out there that can "Fine Tune" your game and help get you started over the hump?
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If I could only give you one tip it would be to go see Mark Wilson. With the amount of time that you spend practicing I would probably say you are at a level that you wont break out of without changing something. What I mean is you have days that you play well, so the ability is there, but you have to find out why its not there on other days.

I was/am at the same place you are, and went to see Mark a couple of weeks ago. I know what he has me working on will help my game. And if I was a gambling man I would bet that you are doing some of the same things I have been doing.

When we get together I can point you in the right direction. But a lesson with Mark would be well worth your time.
 
Lessons with Mark

I agree with Woody. I too just had lessons with Mark Wilson, a week ago, and although I am not playing my best right now I am supremely confident that my game will improve by leaps and bounds once I assimilate all of the changes and become proficient at it!
 
Rackin_Zack said:
I agree with Woody. I too just had lessons with Mark Wilson, a week ago, and although I am not playing my best right now I am supremely confident that my game will improve by leaps and bounds once I assimilate all of the changes and become proficient at it!
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I second that. I have started playing again after a layoff, and have been pretty darn good sometimes, and pretty darn awful other times. I took a lesson from Tony Annigoni (first lesson ever) and it straightened me out. Not that there was that much wrong, but if a lot was wrong I would have played bad all the time. :)

I was nervous about a lesson because I didn't want someone to 'change' what I was doing. He didn't do that, he actually suggested things that when I thought back, I was doing naturally when I was playing my best.

Cheers,
Regas
 
The others in this thread are undoubtedly correct about the value of taking lessons from the right instructor. Surely, this is your best chance to solidify your fundamentals. Still, there are also things you can do for yourself.

First, you can get more committed to your shot selection when you practice alone. Start by playing fewer racks per hour, but think them out more carefully.

Second, ask the good players in your poolroom what they see as your strengths and weaknesses as a player. It may help you to point yourself in the right direction.

Third, review some of the threads on drills on the AZB forum. There ae many useful drills offered by the fine players who visit this forum. Maybe you're working on the wrong thngs.
 
"With the amount of time that you spend practicing I would probably say you are at a level that you wont break out of without changing something."

So true. If you keep doing the same thing over and over you can't expect different results.

It may be something as simple as playing more "two way shots". Proper pocket, shot selection, is important.

Someone pointed this out to me and it helped my game a lot. I had fallen into a pattern where I kept playing a certain shot, that comes up a lot, only one way. If I made it I was okay, but if I missed it I sold out.

At your level any little tweeking of your game can result in the improvement you want. And the only way to find out what you have to change is to see an instructor.

I sure wouldn't expect your playing (gambling) partners to tell you how to improve your game. Not if they want to beat you.

Jake
 
DrCue'sProtege said:
how does one get to that so-called Next Level?

i am at a point in time where if i am playing good, i can break and run racks. however, if i am playing bad, its like i have never played before for the most part. DCP
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DCP,
I can't help but agree with the other posters about lessons. I am no world-beater (hope to get there though), but I NEVER have anything even remotely resembling a slump. If you perfect (and stick with) a fundamentally sound stroke, then you should always play at a certain level. Then as you identify and correct your weaknesses, add new shots to your arsenal, refine your existing shots - you should only improve (thus avoiding the dreaded slumps). That is why pool is (or should be) 100 times less frustrating than golf. You should only be improving - thats the beauty of the game. A good stroke is so easy and uncomplicated that it should not be going bad on you (at least with the amount of time you are dedicating to the game). Good luck.
 
quote:
Instruction. are there any good instructors out there that can "Fine Tune" your game and help get you started over the hump?




I may be wrong, but i think george breedlove and jeanette lee live in indiana, both give lessons. again i may be wrong but i think that is where they live.

also, i don't know how far a drive it would be for you, but tony robles in nyc is a great instructor. i drive up to nyc once a month to take lessons from tony, and he's very good.

hope this helps
 
There will be setbacks.

Williebetmore said:
you should only improve (thus avoiding the dreaded slumps). That is why pool is (or should be) 100 times less frustrating than golf. You should only be improving - thats the beauty of the game.
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Willie, while I agree with most of your post, and agree that as your stroke improves you shouldnt really fall into a slump, I dont agree with the "you should only be improving". I think I understand what you are saying, but want to be clear on it.

IMO pool can be a one two step forward and one step back kind of game. At least that can be the way it feels. When working on something new the first time it "clicks" doesnt always mean it is there to stay. So on days it can feel like you are not playing as well as you had the day before, even though it is better than when you started working on it.

In your case maybe the first time you do something right it sticks, and if so that is great, but for most players they will probably experience what I am talking about above. Im not trying to be nit picky on words, I just dont want people to get discrouaged as they go through the learning process by thinking that they shouldnt ever strugle after they have learned something.

Maybe once I get my stoke perfected I will change my mind :D


Woody
 
Well, it sounds like you are already good enough in basic shot making, pocketing balls type of offense. You need to work on consistency. There might be a couple of areas you can dramatically improve in.

For most of us, I think the answer is this:Stop and Think!Plan the table carefully, examine the quality of your patterns, be careful, and really try hard to make every shot center pocket.

I will say this here and now. Breaking and running racks will sure impress, but it doesn't really matter as much as you might think in the end. (Here comes the rocks, duck!).

I would take getting out those last 5 or 6 balls almost every time and playing rock-solid, lock-up safeties over breaking and running any day of the week. If you are not consistently getting out, the balls aren't rolling up wrong. Your pattern play needs work.

Most player take shots that are way too risky. It's as if they think they'll win by making ridiculous shots. The players who win play excellent safeties and get out when they have an opening. They don't try ridiculous shots.

Improving safety play can dramatically improve your winning percentage. You can do this by improving your overall banking ability and object ball/cue ball speed control, and practicing safety situations. In practice, take an easy safe over a difficult shot, and see how often you can lock-up the cue ball.

But what makes it all come together is to stop and think. Do it on every shot and you will not be disappointed.
I will caution you - no matter how good you get in practice, competeing is a different issue. If you are not fundamentally sound, it will all unravel.

Chris
 
Last edited:
DrCue'sProtege said:
how does one get to that so-called Next Level?

i am at a point in time where if i am playing good, i can break and run racks. however, if i am playing bad, its like i have never played before for the most part. last night i broke racks for 2 hours, tried running out, and managed to get out only one time. just one. now for the most part the balls, as always, didnt roll good for me, so i only had a handful of good chances. funny though, the night before i broke and ran the first rack i played.

anyway, you better players out there, how did you get to the Next Level? what can anyone recommend? i play/practice 2-4 hours a day, and its frustrating that i cant seem to see any noticeable difference. i suppose the following might help:

1) Competition. being from a small town there isnt much chance for regular competition, however.

2) Instruction. are there any good instructors out there that can "Fine Tune" your game and help get you started over the hump?

3) Watch & Learn. i do attend professional tournaments, buy tapes, record ESPN shows, buy teaching videos and books, etc, etc.

4) Good Equipment. i have a Gold Crown IV with Simonis 860, belgian balls, custom and production cues, etc, etc.

anyway, can some of you regular posters on here, the ones that are excellent players, make any recommendations? or have any thoughts here? i want to get to that "Next Level" but just cant seem to get there.

any thoughts would be appreciated.
DCP
Click to expand...

You've received some very good advice but let me add this-----------

You say run racks, what does that mean? You break and run several or you run out sometimes?

People tend to explain and go from one extreme to another. That could be playing but usually it's mental. When some play good their running racks. When they play bad they can hardly hold a cue.

Be realistic, you either run some balls or struggle a bit at times. We all do that to a degree but don't exaggerate what you do on a consistant basis. You either run 3 balls, 5 balls, 9balls or whatever, with some consistancy.

Be honest with your self and use that as a guide to guage improvment. Same goes with all aspects of your game. I'll just offer much of the same. Improve your basic fundamentals. If your not sure how, get help. That next step might be a baby step or a large one but it will happen if your dedicated and honest with yourself.

Rod
 
Williebetmore said:
DCP,
I can't help but agree with the other posters about lessons. I am no world-beater (hope to get there though), but I NEVER have anything even remotely resembling a slump. If you perfect (and stick with) a fundamentally sound stroke, then you should always play at a certain level. Then as you identify and correct your weaknesses, add new shots to your arsenal, refine your existing shots - you should only improve (thus avoiding the dreaded slumps). That is why pool is (or should be) 100 times less frustrating than golf. You should only be improving - thats the beauty of the game. A good stroke is so easy and uncomplicated that it should not be going bad on you (at least with the amount of time you are dedicating to the game). Good luck.
Click to expand...
I like what you said except for your comparison about golf. I feel golf is a bit easier than billiards. The dreaded slumps is what kills it. They say work through it. I just quit for a while and when I come back I forgot my bad habits that got me in that slump. My game is up and down and I have a good time at it, it's always a suprise to me. I do like a lot of the advice I hear on this forum, please keep it up.
 
Practice, practice, and then practice

That's the secret. You have to be completely obsessed with seeing the balls fall into the hole. Nick Varner is one of the hardest players in the game, he has won 12 world titles and still practices every day for several hours. You have to devote yourself with getting better. Most of us are content with how we play so we don't try to see how good we can be. As far as fundamentals go, they are definitely a must.

I agree with williebetmore in that you should only be improving. There are definitely days that we feel we didn't play well, and mostly that's from not focusing hard, no sleep, or just mental fatigue, but over all you always should be improving.

Sometimes when we get in "slumps" it's from practacing bad habits. It's hard to explain what that is but, it's kinda like when you just get up there and slap the balls around not bearing down on every shot. Sometimes we may go a few days with out playing any competition may it be gambling or tournament pool, and this is when we fall into those slumps.

I know many good players from league players to World champions, and the secret, as i said, is to be completely obsessed with pool and to have the burning desire to be the best that you can be.....and practice it like it's a job and never miss a day.....do that for 1 year, and the ask yourself if you are still in a slump.........i think you willl be happy with the results........

good luck
 
I'm just a decent player but I'll try to give you some advice. If you think there might be a problem with your fundamentals I would see a good instructor. When you say that sometimes you can run racks but other times you basically play like a beginner that does seem a little extreme. Running racks but also playing that poorly?

I've been playing pool seriously for six years (before that I would occasionally play on bar tables-hitting the balls hard and hoping one might accidentally go into a pocket). This can be a frustrating game at times and it seems from reading some of your previous posts you've let it get overly-frustrating from time to time.

Over the last year or so I've realized just how important the mental aspect of pool really is. When I'm at the table I've just really tried to focus on every shot and treat each with equal importance.

Going back to what you said about running racks and then playing badly, now that I think about it maybe anger and frustration could be a cause of it. It took me some time to realize that frustration was going to make progress very difficult. You really need to try hard to stay positive. If you believe that one day you feel you didn't play up to your ability, don't let anything negative from it effect your next time at the table.

Good luck to you.
 
I believe everyone can improve with some dedicated work on their game,however,their are people out there with natural God-given abilities who will catch on much,much quicker.We have one such individual (locally) who went from B Level to a pro in about 3 years.Others will plateau and reach a certain level with minimal improvement.

I improved from a B level player to an A level player (1 1/2-2 years) in the following manner.

The Basics:

Made sure my stance,grip stroke etc were OK and had them checked out with some professional lessons.Also practice long straight in shots regularily and rail bounce back straight stroke checks etc.Made my own stroketrainer.

Education:

Obtained many instructional videos and books, learning a lot in doing so.I also checked all the free instructional info the internet has to offer.In years gone by everything was a closely guarded secret, today almost everything has been revealed if you look hard enough.Also watched many accustat videos and World pool Championships of the worlds best players in action.

Constructive practice:

Set up many, many,many drills and practiced them for hrs and hrs and hrs etc, etc.
A few months back started working on my weaknesses like banking,caroms, safties and kicking systems.I have no doubt that my much improved saftey/kicking game has influenced my peers to suggest I move up to an A level Player.Before I was going for everything and selling out too much.

Also incorporated a pre-shot routine and a lighter (cue hold) grip.VERY IMPORTANT!

Mental:

Read some books on the mental side of pool like ,"The Inner Game of Tennis" and "The Pleasures of Small Motions" to name a few.Also obtained some self hypnosis tapes called "The Deadstroke tapes" and "Overcoming Contenderosis"

Playing time:

All the afformentioned mental stuff has helped(I think) a bit, however,nothing replaces playing against the best competition you can find in tounaments and money matches.I meet and play all levels of players in tournaments, however, all my money matches are against A level players and higher.

Sometimes I shoot just awesome (for me) in practice and I'm slowly(ouch!) learning to bring my practice game into those pressure situations. I can now challenge any A and sometimes give A+'s a respectful go. There are also times where I can really suck and lose to anyone..

Summary:

I've improved my game with hard work and dedication, while I have friends who have never done a drill, had a lesson,watched a video or read a book in their life who can kick my a$$.God's given me the willingness to practice and blessed the lazy suckers with a game for free...LOL (only kidding, these guys play a lot of pool).If your game isn't coming along naturally, I'm afraid you'll have to work your butt off. RJ

ps.Getting to an A+ level is going to be a tough-tough challenge....I'm up to it,let the journey begin.
 
DrCue'sProtege said:
how does one get to that so-called Next Level?

i am at a point in time where if i am playing good, i can break and run racks. however, if i am playing bad, its like i have never played before for the most part. last night i broke racks for 2 hours, tried running out, and managed to get out only one time. just one. now for the most part the balls, as always, didnt roll good for me, so i only had a handful of good chances. funny though, the night before i broke and ran the first rack i played.

anyway, you better players out there, how did you get to the Next Level? what can anyone recommend? i play/practice 2-4 hours a day, and its frustrating that i cant seem to see any noticeable difference. i suppose the following might help:

1) Competition. being from a small town there isnt much chance for regular competition, however.

2) Instruction. are there any good instructors out there that can "Fine Tune" your game and help get you started over the hump?

3) Watch & Learn. i do attend professional tournaments, buy tapes, record ESPN shows, buy teaching videos and books, etc, etc.

4) Good Equipment. i have a Gold Crown IV with Simonis 860, belgian balls, custom and production cues, etc, etc.

anyway, can some of you regular posters on here, the ones that are excellent players, make any recommendations? or have any thoughts here? i want to get to that "Next Level" but just cant seem to get there.

any thoughts would be appreciated.
DCP
Click to expand...


Biggest thing for me, when I have one of those nights is to tell myself to stay down. I have a terrible problem when I'm playing bad of coming up out of my stance. I may go weeks playing good, and then fall apart at the worse time. When I look back at those times its when I'm just not comfortable playing and I tend to come up. Who knows what your doing right and wrong, have to have someone play with you, watch you, that knows a thing or three about playing and that you trust.

And I know this has been said, but I'll say it again. Running out isn't everything, often times its your safety play that really improves your game. If I'm playing eight ball I'll play leaves until I get a run out that I like, and the same with 9 ball.
 
i think there are a lot of good ideas here. someone wrote about getting a lesson from tony annagoni(sp). how is it possible to set something like that up? also are there any other good teachers here in california? and how to get a hold of them?
 
Tony Annigoni lessons

pooljunkie0082 said:
i think there are a lot of good ideas here. someone wrote about getting a lesson from tony annagoni(sp). how is it possible to set something like that up? also are there any other good teachers here in california? and how to get a hold of them?
Click to expand...

His cell phone number is on the www.usppa.com website. I've found him to be very responsive. If you have trouble getting a hold of him, pm me and I'll put you in touch. He's in the S.F. bay area.

Somebody else mentioned to get lessons if you are having mechanical problems. In my opinion, if you are not having mechanical problems, and you're still not at the next level, then it can even MORE helpful to take lessons from a top player.

Cheers,
Regas
 
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