That's Ridiculous

3andstop

Focus
Silver Member
Well I read this in another thread and I just couldn't help posting a new thread so I can say what I'm compelled to say without it getting lost in a very long thread.

THAT'S RIDICULOUS

Before I tell you what ... I'll tell you, forget scientists .. I don't even care if Jesus Christ himself posts on this thread confirming it .... It's still RIDICULOUS


Ok .. what ... what you ask. Freaking pool balls skidding because of static electricity ... that's what. This is the kind of thing that makes me wonder doesn't anyone have the ability to think anymore?

Now lets take a second to reason this out. Pool balls, as we all know react to the influence of the ball (usually the CB) hitting them. Spinning the CB with left english will result in the OB spinning with right english.

Hitting a CB into an OB with follow will result in the OB picking up underspin or draw.

Hitting a CB into an OB with draw will result in the OB picking up some overspin.

Now ... when a slow rolling CB hits an OB, not only does the OB want to leave the spot it is in, it wants to pick up a bit of this english mentioned above.

A rolling CB has forward spin which isn't really spin at all but forward roll. When it contacts a stationary OB, the OB wants to not only move in the direction opposite the hit, but it wants to turn backward in reverse as the rolling CB rubs it vertically top to bottom.

Three main conditions that effect the amount of this being experienced are ...

1. Friction ... Friction and the effect of friction is increased by the build up of dirt on the balls.

2. Friction is also a product of the material the ball is made out of.

Now don't forget that while the OB wants to pick up the opposite of this forward roll the CB has ... The CB wants to continue rolling until it gives up the forward roll to outside forces. So ... the third major factor is what friction is playing against the CB and OB in terms of preventing the effect.

3. is the lack of friction counteracting this effect by the cloth on the table.

So where conditions are a slick cloth plus dirty balls, or balls made from a composition who's surface is less slick ... skidding happens more.

It's only a split second, but the rolling (rotational) momentum of the CB wanting to continue rolling, encounters the static OB as it rubs past, and imparts a touch of reverse roll to the OB making the OB want to go Backwards from the CBs rolling momentum, and forward from the CBs directional momentum... if the rolling momentum transfer is stronger than the forward momentum, the two balls stay together for a split second as the OB wants to draw into the CB while the CB wants to continue into the OB, before they are overcome by forward momentum and they seem to skid together along the tangent line.

This is why a bit of outside english allows the CB to roll off the object ball horizontally rather than rub off it so it won't skid, and conversely this is why inside english with slow roll enhances the chance of skid.

( In a semi related note to those interested in straight pool. On the opening break, if you spin the CB into the end OB of the last row and allow the CB to "roll" off the corner ball rather than rub or "rip" across the last row taking other balls with it, you will notice a more prevalent opportunity to achieve that textbook opening break where only the two corner balls come out and go back together rather than ripping the enitre back row off the rack.) Just a note there ... :)

But really .... STATIC ELECTRICITY!!!! YEAH ... everyone knows CBs are positively charged while OBs are negatively charged so they stick together. :rolleyes:
 
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ktrepal85

Banned
Well I read this in another thread and I just couldn't help posting a new thread so I can say what I'm compelled to say without it getting lost in a very long thread.

THAT'S RIDICULOUS

Before I tell you what ... I'll tell you, forget scientists .. I don't even care if Jesus Christ himself posts on this thread confirming it .... It's still RIDICULOUS


Ok .. what ... what you ask. Freaking pool balls skidding because of static electricity ... that's what. This is the kind of thing that makes me wonder doesn't anyone have the ability to think anymore?

Now lets take a second to reason this out. Pool balls, as we all know react to the influence of the ball (usually the CB) hitting them. Spinning the CB with left english will result in the OB spinning with right english.

Hitting a CB into an OB with follow will result in the OB picking up underspin or draw.

Hitting a CB into an OB with draw will result in the OB picking up some overspin.

Now ... when a slow rolling CB hits an OB, not only does the OB want to leave the spot it is in, it wants to pick up a bit of this english mentioned above.

A rolling CB has forward spin which isn't really spin at all but forward roll. When it contacts a stationary OB, the OB wants to not only move in the direction opposite the hit, but it wants to turn backward in reverse as the rolling CB rubs it vertically top to bottom.

Three main conditions that effect the amount of this being experienced are ...

1. Friction ... Friction and the effect of friction is increased by the build up of dirt on the balls.

2. Friction is also a product of the material the ball is made out of.

Now don't forget that while the OB wants to pick up the opposite of this forward roll the CB has ... The CB wants to continue rolling until it gives up the forward roll to outside forces. So ... the third major factor is what friction is playing against the CB and OB in terms of preventing the effect.

3. is the lack of friction counteracting this effect by the cloth on the table.

So where conditions are a slick cloth plus dirty balls, or balls made from a composition who's surface is less slick ... skidding happens more.

It's only a split second, but the rolling (rotational) momentum of the CB wanting to continue rolling, encounters the static OB as it rubs past, and imparts a touch of reverse roll to the OB making the OB want to go Backwards from the CBs rolling momentum, and forward from the CBs directional momentum... if the rolling momentum transfer is stronger than the forward momentum, the two balls stay together for a split second as the OB wants to draw into the CB while the CB wants to continue into the OB, before they are overcome by forward momentum and they seem to skid together along the tangent line.

This is why a bit of outside english allows the CB to roll off the object ball horizontally rather than rub off it so it won't skid, and conversely this is why inside english with slow roll enhances the chance of skid.

( In a semi related note to those interested in straight pool. On the opening break, if you spin the CB into the end OB of the last row and allow the CB to "roll" off the corner ball rather than rub or "rip" across the last row taking other balls with it, you will notice a more prevalent opportunity to achieve that textbook opening break where only the two corner balls come out and go back together rather than ripping the enitre back row off the rack.) Just a note there ... :)

But really .... STATIC ELECTRICITY!!!! YEAH ... everyone knows CBs are positively charged while OBs are negatively charged so they stick together. :rolleyes:

Interesting, I never realized that your chances of a skid are increased with inside english but it makes sense now.
 

pt109

WO double hemlock
Gold Member
Silver Member
Ridiculous?

A bunch of us sat around a practice room in the UK talking about this subject of skids or
kicks as the snooker people call them.
We came up with seven reasons for them, and static electricity was one of them.

Here is a story that I can give you first hand....
Jimmy White was playing a match in a CBC studio in Toronto....80s? Maybe early 90s..
They were getting an inordinate amount of kicks (skids)...
...the ref was wearing white NYLON gloves.
...the sponsor's rep for Canada got the ref to borrow the other ref's COTTON gloves...

THE KICKS STOPPED


Has anybody got a better explanation than static electricity?
 

bdorman

Dead money
Silver Member
Your theory might be entirely true, however it's of no use to me.

Excuses need to be concise and easily understood. When I miss a shot I need a short, sweet excuse like "d@am static electricity caused that skid!"

Heck, my opponent will have finished running out before I can explain your version.

:grin-square::grin-square::grin-square:
 

lfigueroa

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Well I read this in another thread and I just couldn't help posting a new thread so I can say what I'm compelled to say without it getting lost in a very long thread.

THAT'S RIDICULOUS

Before I tell you what ... I'll tell you, forget scientists .. I don't even care if Jesus Christ himself posts on this thread confirming it .... It's still RIDICULOUS


Ok .. what ... what you ask. Freaking pool balls skidding because of static electricity ... that's what. This is the kind of thing that makes me wonder doesn't anyone have the ability to think anymore?

Now lets take a second to reason this out. Pool balls, as we all know react to the influence of the ball (usually the CB) hitting them. Spinning the CB with left english will result in the OB spinning with right english.

Hitting a CB into an OB with follow will result in the OB picking up underspin or draw.

Hitting a CB into an OB with draw will result in the OB picking up some overspin.

Now ... when a slow rolling CB hits an OB, not only does the OB want to leave the spot it is in, it wants to pick up a bit of this english mentioned above.

A rolling CB has forward spin which isn't really spin at all but forward roll. When it contacts a stationary OB, the OB wants to not only move in the direction opposite the hit, but it wants to turn backward in reverse as the rolling CB rubs it vertically top to bottom.

Three main conditions that effect the amount of this being experienced are ...

1. Friction ... Friction and the effect of friction is increased by the build up of dirt on the balls.

2. Friction is also a product of the material the ball is made out of.

Now don't forget that while the OB wants to pick up the opposite of this forward roll the CB has ... The CB wants to continue rolling until it gives up the forward roll to outside forces. So ... the third major factor is what friction is playing against the CB and OB in terms of preventing the effect.

3. is the lack of friction counteracting this effect by the cloth on the table.

So where conditions are a slick cloth plus dirty balls, or balls made from a composition who's surface is less slick ... skidding happens more.

It's only a split second, but the rolling (rotational) momentum of the CB wanting to continue rolling, encounters the static OB as it rubs past, and imparts a touch of reverse roll to the OB making the OB want to go Backwards from the CBs rolling momentum, and forward from the CBs directional momentum... if the rolling momentum transfer is stronger than the forward momentum, the two balls stay together for a split second as the OB wants to draw into the CB while the CB wants to continue into the OB, before they are overcome by forward momentum and they seem to skid together along the tangent line.

This is why a bit of outside english allows the CB to roll off the object ball horizontally rather than rub off it so it won't skid, and conversely this is why inside english with slow roll enhances the chance of skid.

( In a semi related note to those interested in straight pool. On the opening break, if you spin the CB into the end OB of the last row and allow the CB to "roll" off the corner ball rather than rub or "rip" across the last row taking other balls with it, you will notice a more prevalent opportunity to achieve that textbook opening break where only the two corner balls come out and go back together rather than ripping the enitre back row off the rack.) Just a note there ... :)

But really .... STATIC ELECTRICITY!!!! YEAH ... everyone knows CBs are positively charged while OBs are negatively charged so they stick together. :rolleyes:


I believe that a while back Dr. Dave put up a series of tests that showed, pretty conclusively, that static electricity was not a player in explaining skid.

Lou Figueroa
 

alstl

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
If a hitting a cue ball with draw picks up overspin why does it go backward instead of forward?
 

3andstop

Focus
Silver Member
Ridiculous?

A bunch of us sat around a practice room in the UK talking about this subject of skids or
kicks as the snooker people call them.
We came up with seven reasons for them, and static electricity was one of them.

Here is a story that I can give you first hand....
Jimmy White was playing a match in a CBC studio in Toronto....80s? Maybe early 90s..
They were getting an inordinate amount of kicks (skids)...
...the ref was wearing white NYLON gloves.
...the sponsor's rep for Canada got the ref to borrow the other ref's COTTON gloves...

THE KICKS STOPPED


Has anybody got a better explanation than static electricity?

I think I just spent 10 minutes giving you an explanation. what I just wrote was an EXPLANATION ... the two words "static" and "electricity" don't explain a damned thing, they are merely two words.

Ya know ... players that know what they're doing realize the balls are skidding and they compensate with an ever so slight amount of outside english ... maybe that's why they stopped skidding .. ever think of that ... ya know .... logic over Leprechauns.

Now for that explanation of how static electricity causes skidding. Why don't you tell us just how static electricity causes this. While you're at it ... please explain why OBs and CBs have different electrical charges. You know .. likes repel and opposites attract ... so obviously there must be two opposing polls of electricity here... come on .......


Hey, here's a thought... maybe the soft cotton gloves cleaned the balls better than the nylon gloves.

BTW... there just went another explanation.
 
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3andstop

Focus
Silver Member
If a hitting a cue ball with draw picks up overspin why does it go backward instead of forward?

What? I said .. hitting an OB with a CB that has been drawn picks up overspin ... not the CB. Sorry if I didn't make that clear.
 

DJ14.1

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Static electricity cannot produce enough magnetic force to make an object ball skid. Not unless the object ball has been revolving for 10 minutes inside a cloth pocket first :)
 

Neil

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
You pretty much lost me when you stated that you don't care what the facts really are, that anyone that doesn't agree with you is ridiculous. That attitude is far too prevalent on here.
 

pt109

WO double hemlock
Gold Member
Silver Member
I think I just spent 10 minutes giving you an explanation. what I just wrote was an EXPLANATION ... the two words "static" and "electricity" don't explain a damned thing, they are merely two words.

Ya know ... players that know what they're doing realize the balls are skidding and they compensate with an ever so slight amount of outside english ... maybe that's why they stopped skidding .. ever think of that ... ya know .... logic over Leprechauns.

Now for that explanation of how static electricity causes skidding. Why don't you tell us just how static electricity causes this. While you're at it ... please explain why OBs and CBs have different electrical charges. You know .. likes repel and opposites attract ... so obviously there must be two opposing polls of electricity here... come on .......


Hey, here's a thought... maybe the soft cotton gloves cleaned the balls better than the nylon gloves.
I don't feel I'm asking a lot from the anti static crowd...
...when the gloves were changed from nylon to cotton, and the skids stopped, if it was't
static electricity, what the hell was it?
 

3andstop

Focus
Silver Member
You pretty much lost me when you stated that you don't care what the facts really are, that anyone that doesn't agree with you is ridiculous. That attitude is far too prevalent on here.

Please show me where I said that! I said I don't care to hear confirmation of static. There have never been any facts regarding that, just ridiculous speculation. BTW, I wasn't trying to keep you. :D
 

Neil

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Please show me where I said that! I said I don't care to hear confirmation of static. There have never been any facts regarding that, just ridiculous speculation. BTW, I wasn't trying to keep you. :D

Before I tell you what ... I'll tell you, forget scientists .. I don't even care if Jesus Christ himself posts on this thread confirming it .... It's still RIDICULOUS


You said it right there. Not a good way to start a theory or argument.

Static does exist on pool balls, that is why hair and dust and chalk sticks to them. Whether or not there is enough to change the directions of balls by making them stick together...?????
 

3andstop

Focus
Silver Member

Before I tell you what ... I'll tell you, forget scientists .. I don't even care if Jesus Christ himself posts on this thread confirming it .... It's still RIDICULOUS


You said it right there. Not a good way to start a theory or argument.

Static does exist on pool balls, that is why hair and dust and chalk sticks to them. Whether or not there is enough to change the directions of balls by making them stick together...?????

And there you have it... having no desire to listen to anyone confirming the unexplained is not discounting facts. Thank you.
 

3andstop

Focus
Silver Member
I don't feel I'm asking a lot from the anti static crowd...
...when the gloves were changed from nylon to cotton, and the skids stopped, if it was't
static electricity, what the hell was it?

I just explained that. Most likely the pros compensated, or the cotton cleaned the balls better. More logical than static.
 
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