The Answer to Fixing Pool is Simple

[336Robin]

This is sort of a rant but sometimes what appears to be complicated like Pool really isn't and Such is the Conundrum with our Sport.

Yes many things are wrong within the Sport itself concerning the Pros, the promoters the lack of events all the differing rack solution ya da, ya da and on it goes but....

Pool really hasn't changed but we did. Pool is played in a room whether that be a stand alone pool room or a Sport Bar there has to be a room with tables in it.

There have been a lot of places close why? No Business due to what? Likely that's money due to a plethora of reasons and who is to blame? Oh its the video game age, no new Color of Money etc, etc and yes there are many things that vie for people's attention.

So you want people in your room, then invite them its simple and give them value and they will return.

Recently I was lucky enough to witness a Room Owner get past himself and make something happen in his business. He had some kids coming in, he had some personnel changes and decided it was a good time to promote the room and stop waiting for people to just come.

So he goes to $5 for the evenings pool per person.

The 6 to 8 kids he had coming in....in one day went to 25 because they told their friends. These kids were having fun, playing the juke box, buying sodas, candy, crackers and its evident that in 2 months time there will be 60 or more of them plus the players that hear about it. From what I see here is that Pool is still Cool with the kids if you make it affordable.

I ask myself what is better to maintain that 4 to 5 dollars an hour is justifiable by a room owner or to accept that people are generally up against the wall....the people that are attracted to pool anyway and offer them a value to come back.

I am witnessing it now. This guy is going to have a skyrocket in sales I have no doubt what so ever.

What is the greatest about it is that he is doing it through kids. Kids are the future of the game. They buy equipment, they get the support of parents, they raise kids later that love the sport and its the thing we need the worst.

Make this sport more affordable and what is the worst that could happen? You might have to cover a few tables but if you have business then you can surely do it.

If you have 60 to 80 at $5 that's 300 to 400 hundred a night in just pool time plus the juke box runs all night, plus the sodas, candy etc and people come back to the rooms.

Its just not so complicated as it cant be fixed.

We just cant seem to get past ourselves.

The truth is people cant drop $20 a night on a regular basis but give them a value and they will drop 30 to 40 a week paying pool time, that ends up with one person spending "160 to 200 a month" isn't that enough," having a brew or a soda or something to eat. Then you recreate the pool room culture and what is that worth?

When kids show you today "in the middle of the video game age" how much they love pool its not the video game age. Its the price and the fact that probably haven't been invited or welcomed and if we invited people in for a value they would come and they would be there when we needed them and the room would be full.

Playing to the upper crust of pool players hasn't been getting us very far.

Creating interest in school age children might teach us where our roots truly are.

Pool didn't change......we did and we might have a skewed view of what its really worth....markets change.

 

[JeremiahGage]

Great post!

In addition to what 336Robin said, I always thought that every room should have an in-house instructor to teach anyone that wants to learn (for free). This sport is very difficult, so the more people that understand and learn, then the more fun they will have and the more likely they will come back!

 

[Ty-Tanic]

I agree. Well MONEY is also a big problem at the tournament level.

 

[StraightPoolIU]

I will say that I think in terms of pool rooms it has a lot more to do with how the business is run and managed a lot of times rather than the popularity of pool itself. Obviously if the game were to boom we'd have more rooms, but I think it is possible to run a successful room in the current environment if the owner wants to put in the effort to make it a comfortable good place to be and spend money. Too many poolrooms are unwelcoming or don't even try.

 

[Barnicoles]

I think another HUGE factor is the type of people the pool room attracts, sure renting tables for $5 is super awesome comparable to a $1 a game. Sure, that will save someone who plays quite a bit of coin thus allowing them to put more money into the bar/pool room they are hanging out at. These things are all good BUT if you allow some of those types of people in the pool room ( we all know who I am talking about) that tends to steer the regulars away as well as makes them think twice about recommending the particular establishment. IMO anyway.

 

[sfleinen]

Good post, Robin!

As a room owner, you have to think outside the box. The days of "This is Ames, Mister" are long gone.

There's a pool hall near me that experienced a renaissance in business just like the one you describe. It's Fast Eddies in New Milford, CT:

"Fast Eddie's more than just another pool hall"
http://newstimes.com/news/article/Fast-Eddie-s-more-than-just-another-pool-hall-3615154.php

He not only was very aggressive with low-balling the table time price, but also runs "free pool" specials on certain days and even weekends. He realized a long time ago that his revenue was NOT from table time, but rather from the amenities he offers -- i.e. the food, bar, jukebox, dart leagues, bands playing (there's a separate stage area), etc.

As a result, people using the tables actually increased as well. The leagues grew. More people became interested in pool, because they were no longer threatened by it ("hey, that pool hall is cool -- why didn't I come in here sooner?").

The other pool halls around took notice, and are now implementing some of Eddie Locke's ideas.

Time's a changin', and you have to adapt.
-Sean

 

[itsfroze]

This is sort of a rant but sometimes what appears to be complicated like Pool really isn't and Such is the Conundrum with our Sport.

Yes many things are wrong within the Sport itself concerning the Pros, the promoters the lack of events all the differing rack solution ya da, ya da and on it goes but....

Pool really hasn't changed but we did. Pool is played in a room whether that be a stand alone pool room or a Sport Bar there has to be a room with tables in it.

There have been a lot of places close why? No Business due to what? Likely that's money due to a plethora of reasons and who is to blame? Oh its the video game age, no new Color of Money etc, etc and yes there are many things that vie for people's attention.

So you want people in your room, then invite them its simple and give them value and they will return.

Recently I was lucky enough to witness a Room Owner get past himself and make something happen in his business. He had some kids coming in, he had some personnel changes and decided it was a good time to promote the room and stop waiting for people to just come.

So he goes to $5 for the evenings pool per person.

The 6 to 8 kids he had coming in....in one day went to 25 because they told their friends. These kids were having fun, playing the juke box, buying sodas, candy, crackers and its evident that in 2 months time there will be 60 or more of them plus the players that hear about it. From what I see here is that Pool is still Cool with the kids if you make it affordable.

I ask myself what is better to maintain that 4 to 5 dollars an hour is justifiable by a room owner or to accept that people are generally up against the wall....the people that are attracted to pool anyway and offer them a value to come back.

I am witnessing it now. This guy is going to have a skyrocket in sales I have no doubt what so ever.

What is the greatest about it is that he is doing it through kids. Kids are the future of the game. They buy equipment, they get the support of parents, they raise kids later that love the sport and its the thing we need the worst.

Make this sport more affordable and what is the worst that could happen? You might have to cover a few tables but if you have business then you can surely do it.

If you have 60 to 80 at $5 that's 300 to 400 hundred a night in just pool time plus the juke box runs all night, plus the sodas, candy etc and people come back to the rooms.

Its just not so complicated as it cant be fixed.

We just cant seem to get past ourselves.

The truth is people cant drop $20 a night on a regular basis but give them a value and they will drop 30 to 40 a week paying pool time, that ends up with one person spending "160 to 200 a month" isn't that enough," having a brew or a soda or something to eat. Then you recreate the pool room culture and what is that worth?

When kids show you today "in the middle of the video game age" how much they love pool its not the video game age. Its the price and the fact that probably haven't been invited or welcomed and if we invited people in for a value they would come and they would be there when we needed them and the room would be full.

Playing to the upper crust of pool players hasn't been getting us very far.

Creating interest in school age children might teach us where our roots truly are.

Pool didn't change......we did and we might have a skewed view of what its really worth....markets change.

Since when has any Pool room played to the "upper crust" as you put it ?
If anything it's the exact opposite.

 

[thintowin]

good post and great insight.

 

[rossaroni]

I have seen rooms charge $10 to play open to close. Did not really seem to draw them in.

I agree with many of your points, but it doesn't seem so cut and dry to me.

 

[336Robin]

Since when has any Pool room played to the "upper crust" as you put it ?
If anything it's the exact opposite.

I understand your confusion but that's my point. An uppercrust pool player in this area isn't all that uppercrust to start off with. If pool is the poor mans golf, then we seem to be priced above his head.

I have seen rooms charge $10 to play open to close. Did not really seem to draw them in.

I agree with many of your points, but it doesn't seem so cut and dry to me.

I understand why you would say it doesn't seem so cut and dry. It seems like the owners I have had dealings with will make a tweak to their business at the pool room but then they are off to deal with something else and do nothing to invite the groups in that would make for some New and Good customers.

The point is that the best New and Good customers are kids and they wont come in if they don't know about the special.

Its seem like there is a great leap to be made by room owners when it comes to marketing in a affordable way. The pool tables are bait and my observation is use them. Invite groups in to play some for free and then let them know about your special. People see an entertainment value and come back. Its really nothing more than standard business practice. If there isn't anyone out there saying.....Got Pool? to the American public then whose job does it become?

The Room Owner....its his investment and his job to promote his business and standard forms of advertisement are very expensive so why not use the tools you already have in the tool box just learn to invite people in for fun and give them an offer they wont refuse.....Hey come to my place and have fun all night for $5. I think it sends a very strong message but...of course that's just me and Its working for people from what I see of course all of this started with 6 to 8 kids....yes high school kids who also think that Pool is Cool and there were several young girls in the group which makes it even better for young men.

Yes it takes a minimum of effort but its not that complicated.

 

[Bambu]

I like Robins idea, but I don't know if a room owner would. It seems as if the kids become the focus, the place becomes family oriented. Nothing wrong with that, but what about the alcohol aspect? Is it possible to be kid friendly and still serve alcohol? Tough sell. I've only seen the Dave and Busters chain pull it off. Even then, nobody really plays pool in there anyway.

 

[takeitdown]

This is sort of a rant but sometimes what appears to be complicated like Pool really isn't and Such is the Conundrum with our Sport.

Yes many things are wrong within the Sport itself concerning the Pros, the promoters the lack of events all the differing rack solution ya da, ya da and on it goes but....

Pool really hasn't changed but we did. Pool is played in a room whether that be a stand alone pool room or a Sport Bar there has to be a room with tables in it.

There have been a lot of places close why? No Business due to what? Likely that's money due to a plethora of reasons and who is to blame? Oh its the video game age, no new Color of Money etc, etc and yes there are many things that vie for people's attention.

So you want people in your room, then invite them its simple and give them value and they will return.

Recently I was lucky enough to witness a Room Owner get past himself and make something happen in his business. He had some kids coming in, he had some personnel changes and decided it was a good time to promote the room and stop waiting for people to just come.

So he goes to $5 for the evenings pool per person.

The 6 to 8 kids he had coming in....in one day went to 25 because they told their friends. These kids were having fun, playing the juke box, buying sodas, candy, crackers and its evident that in 2 months time there will be 60 or more of them plus the players that hear about it. From what I see here is that Pool is still Cool with the kids if you make it affordable.

I ask myself what is better to maintain that 4 to 5 dollars an hour is justifiable by a room owner or to accept that people are generally up against the wall....the people that are attracted to pool anyway and offer them a value to come back.

I am witnessing it now. This guy is going to have a skyrocket in sales I have no doubt what so ever.

What is the greatest about it is that he is doing it through kids. Kids are the future of the game. They buy equipment, they get the support of parents, they raise kids later that love the sport and its the thing we need the worst.

Make this sport more affordable and what is the worst that could happen? You might have to cover a few tables but if you have business then you can surely do it.

If you have 60 to 80 at $5 that's 300 to 400 hundred a night in just pool time plus the juke box runs all night, plus the sodas, candy etc and people come back to the rooms.

Its just not so complicated as it cant be fixed.

We just cant seem to get past ourselves.

The truth is people cant drop $20 a night on a regular basis but give them a value and they will drop 30 to 40 a week paying pool time, that ends up with one person spending "160 to 200 a month" isn't that enough," having a brew or a soda or something to eat. Then you recreate the pool room culture and what is that worth?

When kids show you today "in the middle of the video game age" how much they love pool its not the video game age. Its the price and the fact that probably haven't been invited or welcomed and if we invited people in for a value they would come and they would be there when we needed them and the room would be full.

Playing to the upper crust of pool players hasn't been getting us very far.

Creating interest in school age children might teach us where our roots truly are.

Pool didn't change......we did and we might have a skewed view of what its really worth....markets change.

Both local rooms have gone to this and it helps. The one room cleans up on alcohol and lottery quick pick.

What a lot of people want is action. Whether it's just an opponent to play, match up for 20 dollar sets or more. If more people are around the atmosphere picks up, more people get into leagues and some even try to step up to weekly events. Although I barely see anybody improving or getting the heart to matchup.

I like to see some new fish and when you play for cash now there's no haggling over table time. Used to suck winning 20 and picking up table time.

 

[336Robin]

Alcohol

I like Robins idea, but I don't know if a room owner would. It seems as if the kids become the focus, the place becomes family oriented. Nothing wrong with that, but what about the alcohol aspect? Is it possible to be kid friendly and still serve alcohol? Tough sell. I've only seen the Dave and Busters chain pull it off. Even then, nobody really plays pool in there anyway.

I agree that alcohol does make of somewhat of a conundrum but Ive not seen a place yet that would kick a kid out that just wanted to play pool and have a soda. I guess technically they aren't supposed to be without a guardian. Now define guardian. The lady behind the bar says that my cousin.. I don't know of an instance where its been a real problem and if kids want to go and need an adult they will find one. They know they aren't supposed to be drinking, the bar knows to card them and I think everyone is fine. I see that as sort of an issue but maybe not but that will depend on location, etc.

The place I mentioned has beer and wine but the cops walk in and kids are playing having a good time...nothing said. Its not a private club.

 

[Bambu]

I agree that alcohol does make of somewhat of a conundrum but Ive not seen a place yet that would kick a kid out that just wanted to play pool and have a soda. I guess technically they aren't supposed to be without a guardian. Now define guardian. The lady behind the bar says that my cousin.. I don't know of an instance where its been a real problem and if kids want to go and need an adult they will find one. They know they aren't supposed to be drinking, the bar knows to card them and I think everyone is fine. I see that as sort of an issue but maybe not but that will depend on location, etc.

The place I mentioned has beer and wine but the cops walk in and kids are playing having a good time...nothing said. Its not a private club.

On a local level, I guess the tolerance would vary from town to town. (Wouldnt be me complaining, thats for sure.)

I could see some stiff lipped school board members opposing any link to a pool room on account of the alcohol.

 

[3andstop]

It's my opinion that the difference between 10 bucks and 5 bucks isn't the answer to increasing pool's popularity.

There's only one way IMO. That is ... introduce the game as an extra curricular activity starting with grade 7. Inter school competitions will involve the parents and the game will explode in popularity.

Its going to take some creative engineering to design 9' tables that can tilt up and roll out of the way so schools can have at least 4 at their disposal. Personally, I'd hate to sacrifice the game to 7' tables to do this because doing so will surely redefine the game in the wrong direction. So ... come on designers some kind of hydraulic assist table tilting mechanism for 9 footers.
I really think that if this type table construction was designed, kick starting the game in schools would be the easy part. I think there would be plenty of donations to equip the schools. It's the only way.

 

[Banks]

There's only one way IMO. That is ... introduce the game as an extra curricular activity starting with grade 7. Inter school competitions will involve the parents and the game will explode in popularity.

Its going to take some creative engineering to design 9' tables that can tilt up and roll out of the way so schools can have at least 4 at their disposal. Personally, I'd hate to sacrifice the game to 7' tables to do this because doing so will surely redefine the game in the wrong direction. So ... come on designers some kind of hydraulic assist table tilting mechanism for 9 footers.
I really think that if this type table construction was designed, kick starting the game in schools would be the easy part. I think there would be plenty of donations to equip the schools. It's the only way.

Would you also suggest that they have regulation hoop height and baseball fields?

I'm beginning a invasion of Diamond tables into the area. I'm suggesting to those that own old Valleys that they either sell them cheap to get rid of them or simply donate them to schools and/or Boys and Girls Club types of organizations.

Kids don't need professional equipment. They need introductory equipment - something that can be cheaply replaced and allows them to learn the basics. Perhaps at the college level there may be more reason to have the good stuff.

 

[sfleinen]

Would you also suggest that they have regulation hoop height and baseball fields?

I'm beginning a invasion of Diamond tables into the area. I'm suggesting to those that own old Valleys that they either sell them cheap to get rid of them or simply donate them to schools and/or Boys and Girls Club types of organizations.

Kids don't need professional equipment. They need introductory equipment - something that can be cheaply replaced and allows them to learn the basics. Perhaps at the college level there may be more reason to have the good stuff.

I agree with this. It's difficult to purge Valleys in my area, because most of those tables are rented from a third-party. The bars don't buy tables any more -- they rent them. It's an uphill battle to try to convince those third parties that Diamond tables simply are a better investment, because they have warehouses full of the old Valleys.

Pool halls are a different matter, but will all the closures, there's a flood of inexpensive Gold Crowns on the market that are simply too cheap to pass up (from a pool hall owner / operator perspective).

But I agree that kids don't need expensive equipment. Mosconi learned on his kitchen table with potatoes, so it's not hard to think about the impact that a playable table would have on someone who's impressionable / inclined to take up the game.

The key is to make the game *accessible*, and I think that's the crux of what Robin's trying to say. We're pricing-out those that don't even know they'd like the game -- we're putting an obstacle right in front of them that discourages them from even investigating the game in the first place.

-Sean

 

[Banks]

I agree with this. It's difficult to purge Valleys in my area, because most of those tables are rented from a third-party. The bars don't buy tables any more -- they rent them. It's an uphill battle to try to convince those third parties that Diamond tables simply are a better investment, because they have warehouses full of the old Valleys.

Pool halls are a different matter, but will all the closures, there's a flood of inexpensive Gold Crowns on the market that are simply too cheap to pass up (from a pool hall owner / operator perspective).

But I agree that kids don't need expensive equipment. Mosconi learned on his kitchen table with potatoes, so it's not hard to think about the impact that a playable table would have on someone who's impressionable / inclined to take up the game.

The key is to make the game *accessible*, and I think that's the crux of what Robin's trying to say. We're pricing-out those that don't even know they'd like the game -- we're putting an obstacle right in front of them that discourages them from even investigating the game in the first place.

-Sean

I've got a rough business plan that addresses all of those issues and a few others. This Spring, I plan on seeing how the league portion of it fares with a test run in the Portland area.

 

[sfleinen]

I've got a rough business plan that addresses all of those issues and a few others. This Spring, I plan on seeing how the league portion of it fares with a test run in the Portland area.

Man, I love to hear this kind of stuff! I'm sure I speak for others when I say, "I think we all do."

If more folks would stop throwing their hands up in the air, and instead address their own little corner of the pool universe -- their own little habitat -- like this, it'd go a long way to fixing some of the woes.

It's that old adage about how do you tackle a task like eating an elephant...
a bite at a time.

:thumbup2:
-Sean

 

[3andstop]

I personally just would hate to see this great game morph any closer to a cheap carnival game with toy tables.