The base of the problem with the sport

[Harley316]

Pool in North America is marketed so badly. All the televised events are 9ball. Only problem is 95% of the general population don’t know what 9ball is.

They see a 9 on the break = win and go… wtf
A fluke and he keeps shooting…..wtf
A combo 9 and win….. wtf is that!!!!!!! This game is stupid!

The general population understands bar rules 8 ball. Plain and simple.

Show some of that and you’ll give folks something to get ‘amazed’ at. Not some game they know nothing about.

All the people promoting pool are people ‘in the know’. They promote pool they way they want to see it. Not the way the masses want to see it.

 

[Tom M]

Oh lord, another one of these threads.

When will people wake up and realize that pool's popularity has nothing to do with sharks/hustlers? When the Hustler came out, it gave pool a shot in the arm for a brief period. When The Color of Money came out it, it did just the same. And believe it or not, these were movies involving hustlers.

Pool is not popular because people don't like it as much as we do. There's not enough interest in it. Therefore, not enough money for sponsors, tournaments, tours, etc etc etc.

I tend to disagree with both of your points. First, pool is actually very popular at the grassroots level. Go to the Fox & Hound or Dave & Busters on any Thursday, Friday or Saturday night. You will almost ALWAYS have to wait for a table. In Dallas, there are 3 - 4 of each of these establishments, so that's a lot of tables. Serious players tend not to patronize these places, so you're talking about everyday folks who show up and shoot around with a house cue for a few hours. My minor point here is that there might be a demographic out there that could be tapped.

(For those of you who aren't familiar with these places, Fox & Hound is a pretty good restaurant/bar chain with 20 or so 8 footers. Dave and Busters is a chain of upper-scale indoor entertainment complexes with a good restaurant, a very large arcade and a bar, and maybe 12 - 20 tables depending on the location. Both keep their equipment in very good condition.)

So why are "serious" pool rooms closing down left and right? Why aren't the patrons that I'm talking about going to them ? IMHO they're afraid to. Okay, maybe not afraid, but intimidated by their perception of serious players as sharks or hustlers. No, these guys don't want to gamble, but their money is good for table time and drinks and snacks, and would go a long way towards keeping a room in the black. The other dark secret is that action players don't want these people in the room anyway, which is a case in point.

Sponsorship money/promotion and public interest are kind of like the chicken and the egg. Which comes first? It can be argued both ways, but business fundamentals say promotion generates interest. Promotion costs money, more money than companies inside the pool industry can afford. The big sports get sponsorship from OUTSIDE. Golf has all of the insurance and financial companies, football, baseball and basketball have the beer companies etc. I suspect that the hustler/dishonest image of pool also scares off potential non-pool sponsors.

The shark/hustler image in general is not accurate, but the OP is right, some of us do glorify that image and I agree that it's detrimental to the wide acceptance and popularity of pool.

Tom

 

[Tom M]

Let me interject an idea. A great pool player has the precision with his Cue to make a Cue Ball, and Object Ball behave with in a very narrow margin of accuracy. Like a Neurosurgeon has the ability to work in and on very small spaces with his Surgical Knife. The Neurosurgeon is compensated for his skill, but the pool player is no.

Yes, but what's the inherent value of the skill? The neurosurgeon is also being compensated for the 8 years of incredibly expensive education (AFTER College), the willingness to place someone's BRAIN literally in his hands, and for saving or at least greatly improving LIVES.

Tom

 

[PoolBum]

Yes, but what's the inherent value of the skill? The neurosurgeon is also being compensated for the 8 years of incredibly expensive education (AFTER College), the willingness to place someone's BRAIN literally in his hands, and for saving or at least greatly improving LIVES.

Tom

That would be an instrumental value to the skill, not an inherent one.

Great teachers have more value to the lives of their students than great basketball players to do their fans, but I don't think great teachers get paid quite as much as great basketball players.

I think pool is not as popular as other sports in this country because it is simply too subtle for the American sports fan's psyche.

 

[JoeW]

We create a movie about football or basketball or baseball and it is usually about about heroes or good overcoming the bad. In the Color of Money we take a young boy working at Toys R Us and create the ultimate pool hustler. He even hustles Paul Newman and all the pool players love it.

Is this what you want your children to become? If yes send them to a pool hall.

It is not about gambling, it is about hustling as a way of life. If we make a movie about female hustlers this too is a study in pathos so our daughters will not accept this as a life style.

So pool playing is a pass time game for at home, if you can afford the equipment. It is not something we want our children to embrace.

Rationalize it all you want, I'll bet that is how the average person sees it.

I think we need a Rocky Balboa pool movie.

 

[memikey]

We create a movie about football or basketball or baseball and it is usually about about heroes or good overcoming the bad. In the Color of Money we take a young boy working at Toys R Us and create the ultimate pool hustler. He even hustles Paul Newman and all the pool players love it.

Is this what you want your children to become? If yes send them to a pool hall.

It is not about gambling, it is about hustling as a way of life. If we make a movie about female hustlers this too is a study in pathos so our daughters will not accept this as a life style.

So pool playing is a pass time game for at home, if you can afford the equipment. It is not something we want our children to embrace.


Rationalize it all you want, I'll bet that is how the average person sees it.

I think we need a Rocky Balboa pool movie.

Yes Joe, would agree with you about how many view pool......and it's not just confined to seeing it as something for their children to be steered away from.

This subject has interested me for a long time and I've had lots of informal conversations about it with people in various countries over the last 30 years. I've come across a lot of prospective employers (or managers delegated with the responsibility of hiring others on behalf of employers) who have admitted straight out that if a prospective employee were to state on an application form or in an interview that one of his favourite leisure pastimes was playing pool he would be straightaway crossed off the list as being unreliable and quite possibly untrustworthy. It is slightly harder to get people to admit to such prejudice in today's litigious environment but it definitely still goes on.

I remember one guy telling me that he'd hire someone who put on his application form that his favourite pastime was gambling at the racetrack before he'd hire someone who admitted he spent a lot of time in a pool hall

.....and another thing while we're in full flow....there are lots of two faced people out there who on first learning that you can run with the best in a pool hall will tell you to your face how interesting that is whilst discreetly immediately taking a rather firmer grip on their wallet and making a mental note never to disclose their address. You can bet your last dollar that those of you who have kids who you are encouraging to take up pool will have at least a few friends who thoroughly disapprove of what you are doing but who are unlikely to tell you so.

Here endeth this rant

 

[MinoInADixeCup]

Pool in North America is marketed so badly. All the televised events are 9ball. Only problem is 95% of the general population don?t know what 9ball is.

They see a 9 on the break = win and go? wtf
A fluke and he keeps shooting?..wtf
A combo 9 and win?.. wtf is that!!!!!!! This game is stupid!

The general population understands bar rules 8 ball. Plain and simple.

Show some of that and you?ll give folks something to get ?amazed? at. Not some game they know nothing about.

All the people promoting pool are people ?in the know?. They promote pool they way they want to see it. Not the way the masses want to see it.

I couldn't agree more. I think you could get more people to watch pros playing 8 ball on a 7 foot bar box under your typical bar rules then you ever could with 9 ball.

How about a reality TV show where they try to teach 10 people who only have a passing acquaintance with pool (know enough to run 3 to 4 balls once in awhile) how to really play. At the end, they could do a round robin tournament with a real pro mixed in just to see how they do. Sounds completely off the wall, but I bet we see something like it for poker and or fishing in the next couple years.

It is not about gambling, it is about hustling as a way of life.

I agree, I don't think it's the gambling that turns many people off; it's the kind of gambling that goes on.

 

[scenario]

Why Pool Is Just Pool

I feel that the whole problem is that pocket billiards is not fan friendly. Tens of thousands at golf tourneys on one day, football games 50,000 ++ baseball, soccer and basketball. You cant get 5000 seated well enough to veiw a billiards match. So therefore sponcers are going where they can get the most bang for thier buck. And we need sponcers for the cash, endorcements, TV and the tourneys.

 

[1pocket]

Not to mention that Tiger Woods is recognized through out the world by people of all walks of life.
Efren is not recognized outside the pool playing community and for that matter a small subset of the pool playing community. Most pool players don't know or care who the pros are.

From what I have heard, that's not true in Efren's home country (not that I've ever been there )

Try this experiment next time you bump into someone (not a pool player) from the Philipines -- ask if they have heard of Efren Reyes. Way up here in New England I have got at least one non-pool player (a "Filipino bride") who was very excited to hear that I had met him, and had photos of him.

 

[Harley316]

I feel that the whole problem is that pocket billiards is not fan friendly. Tens of thousands at golf tourneys on one day, football games 50,000 ++ baseball, soccer and basketball. You cant get 5000 seated well enough to veiw a billiards match. So therefore sponcers are going where they can get the most bang for thier buck. And we need sponcers for the cash, endorcements, TV and the tourneys.

People want to watch what they can relate to. People can't relate to 9ball because they've never played it and dont know anything about it. People understand 8 ball because its the game they've learned how to play their whole life. At least here in North America anyway.

You dont learn how to play golf one way your whole life only to turn on the tv to watch the pro's and see them playing a completely different game with a whole new set of rules.

 

[Vinnie]

...

So why are "serious" pool rooms closing down left and right? Why aren't the patrons that I'm talking about going to them ? IMHO they're afraid to. Okay, maybe not afraid, but intimidated by their perception of serious players as sharks or hustlers. ...

I agree. There are many people in my area that love to go play pool at the bar every weekend, but you don't ever see them at the local tournaments. Sometimes when I'm playing at the bar and run the table, my opponent will get pissed off and storm away. There are many people that love to play, but then will get embarrassed or intimidated by good players. That is why I am always willing to give free advice to people if they are willing to accept it. The key is to get all of those people "over the hump".

 

[Tom M]

I agree. There are many people in my area that love to go play pool at the bar every weekend, but you don't ever see them at the local tournaments. Sometimes when I'm playing at the bar and run the table, my opponent will get pissed off and storm away. There are many people that love to play, but then will get embarrassed or intimidated by good players. That is why I am always willing to give free advice to people if they are willing to accept it. The key is to get all of those people "over the hump".

I agree with your point. Some of my buddies don't like to play me anymore because I always beat them even though we're not gambling. Other friends love to play because they feel they can learn from me. (Their mistake. I really don't know that much).

But I was really talking about folks being afraid of somehow getting taken or "hustled" in serious pool halls.

It's funny, the popular image of hustlers is that they're somehow magic and can cloud your mind or force you to do something you don't want to do. The sitcoms always portray it the same way. The victim wins a few games for $5 or $10 and when he's up by maybe $100, the hustler says "Hey, give me a chance to win my money back. Let's play for your dad's Mercedes", and the victim says "I'm unbeatable tonight. You're on!"

Yeah right...

 

[sjm]

I personally think it is a disgrace to go to prestigious tournaments like Derby City and see competitors dressed like slobs. I know i will catch a lot of flak for this, but i believe that if you are going to compete in any tournaments beyond your pool rooms local sunday nighter, you need to get yourself together and play the role of a professional and present pool to the public as a dignified sport. I dont mean throw on a three piece suit, but come on, a lot of us have been to the Derby and other such tournaments and i think most of us can agree some of the attire and attitudes of the competitors is sometimes shameful. I think anyone who tries to wear baggy, dirty clothes and flip flops should be barred from a tournament such as the Derby. I believe people owe it to pool to clean up its image. I dont care how comfortable you are playing in your filthy bare socks, grow up and buy a decent pair of shoes. Its just another punch in the teeth to pool everytime the public has to see some kid with his shirt down to his ankles compete in an event. I consider it disgusting.

If you are going to post as well as this, Febreze, I am really looking forward to your posts in the future. Every top pool player that is willing to present him/herself to the public in a slovenly way is at fault. If a top pool player dresses down when they go to a movie, that's fine, but whe they are paying pool in a public place, it is unacceptable. Not just at tournament venues, but in a poolroom!

 

[bandido]

If you take a long look at American society, when there were 5,000 pool rooms alone in New York City at the turn of the 20th century, a handful of great players that equal Efrens ability were born/created, that in itself is a great tell on how, when, and why players came out of this culture. America is the bedrock of competition pocket pool (not snooker).
Back in the day....lack of structure, education and financial opportunities drove many to spend their time doing what?.........SOMETHING.
The game of pool offers life, in all its forms, to be portrayed right in front of your eyes. Everything that goes on in a pool room goes on in every arena, from work to play to whatever.
The essence of pool alone gives it, its ability to "stand alone" pool...in the big picture....only needs itself to take care of itself. The Phillippines has a socio economic platform much like the US had when first convieved, we've lost tradition and values by the day/week/minute, whereas your country would appear to of kept its traditional values.
Now, where we're at, pool is what it is 'til someone has the ability show the masses, its simplicity, beauty, difficulty, and its culture.
We have too much ability in the US, its how and where we apply it that's lost.

Right on target! America just got too busy getting ready to pay credit card bills for other things like, as I've read in another thread, wide-screen TV and somehow lost the time to stop and smell the roses. Maybe the window that's conducive to easily develop pool, because of popularity, has passed. Not saying that America cannot do it at this time, it's just apparent that it will be a lot more difficult in present situation.

 

[bandido]

From what I have heard, that's not true in Efren's home country (not that I've ever been there )

Try this experiment next time you bump into someone (not a pool player) from the Philipines -- ask if they have heard of Efren Reyes. Way up here in New England I have got at least one non-pool player (a "Filipino bride") who was very excited to hear that I had met him, and had photos of him.

And I agree with you. How can people here not know of Efren when local TV channels show him in commercials of locally popular product like McDonalds Burger and San Miguel Beer that both target the great majority of the population aside from their both having the highest budgets for Marketing.

Efren even joins politicians in their campaign trail aside from co-starring in a movie with the Box Office King/former Presidential Candidate here. So how can he not be a familiar face here?