i feel that there are 4 players on the i.p.t. that are the strongest there, here are my 4, efren reyes, marlon manalo, thorston hoeman and allison fisher, these 4 in my opinion will consistantly do very well, and then after those players, i'll pick ralf souquet, tony robles and rodney morris, and then (dare i say it) bernie friend. lol?? one thing is for certain, question: when was the last time in our lifetimes, that we (poolplayers) were this excited about a pool tournament/tour????? ANSWER: never!
The Big 4
- Thread starter 8-ball bernie
- Start date
I like those you mentioned to do well, but there will be some kind of unknown players to do well too. One player from Ohio, Troy Frank. I really like his 8 ball game. He plays great 9-ball, but plays the patterns and all other aspects of 8-ball as good as anyone. Sam
Many-time world 8-ball champion efren reyes is always a good bet, especially in 8-ball, but he has placed dismally in his last few outings and has admitted that maybe it's finally time to undergo that long overdue laser eye surgery. hopefully he takes it at the soonest so he can recover in time for the IPT. And Bustamante, despite his recent win at the Fil 9-ball open, should also have that injured elbow checked pronto.
I don't know why alex isn't playing but maybe it's because he wants to compete for the philippines in the south east asian games which unfortunately coincided with the IPT.
I'm looking forward to watching O'Sullivan and Allison play. Then we'll finally have closure on not just one but two consistent threads in the forum regarding snooker and female players.
That's my top 4 - Reyes, Bustamante (provided they're both healthy after undergoing whatever medical attention they need), O'Sullivan, and Fisher.
I don't know why alex isn't playing but maybe it's because he wants to compete for the philippines in the south east asian games which unfortunately coincided with the IPT.
I'm looking forward to watching O'Sullivan and Allison play. Then we'll finally have closure on not just one but two consistent threads in the forum regarding snooker and female players.
That's my top 4 - Reyes, Bustamante (provided they're both healthy after undergoing whatever medical attention they need), O'Sullivan, and Fisher.
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Bernie it is tough to argue with your selection of the top 4. But, looking at the list of 43 people who will be there in November I think I can throw darts at the list and still come up with 4 very impressive names.
The only thing that will really matter is who will be playing at his/her best during the tournament. We have all seen top pros play really, really great in one tournament and then fall apart in the next one. In fact, we see it from match to match.
Of course my pick will be Strickland vs Sigel in the finals. He has really been playing well lately and I expect him to peak in Orlando.
The only thing that will really matter is who will be playing at his/her best during the tournament. We have all seen top pros play really, really great in one tournament and then fall apart in the next one. In fact, we see it from match to match.
Of course my pick will be Strickland vs Sigel in the finals. He has really been playing well lately and I expect him to peak in Orlando.
8-ball bernie said:
Some people become delusional over Allison Fisher (and Karen Corr). Are you kidding? You think Allison has a chance against Souquet, Robles, Morris, and 10s of other players in this IPT?! Allison Fisher would get run over like a freight train against any of these three players playing any game except snooker. Robles is a 250+ ball straight pool runner -- and you think Allison will be more consistent? Give me a break here.
It will soon be determined tho! I sure am excited about it!~BackPocket9Ball said:
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onepocketchump
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BackPocket9Ball said:
I would put Allison or Karen in the box in any given sof 8 ball against any player alive. They have just as much chance to win a race to nine as any male player who lives. For that mattter I'd put Kelly Fisher right there as well.
John
This is an uninformed statement because Karen has been put in the box against many male champions for the cash by Pete Fusco in Philadelphia. And she has proven she needs weight from the entire upper echelon of pros. And in the Joss Tour she consistently has top 10 finishes but only occasionally breaks into the top 5 and only once in a blue moon wins. Neither her tournament nor her gambling record bears any indication that she could hang with any top pro or even middle pro in 8 ball, 9 ball, straight pool, or one pocket. Again, Snooker is a different beast altogether and she probably would beat many top American men at it. But she certainly wouldn't be the favorite against any top male snooker pro.
Do you have any basis for your opinion or is it simply your gut feel and you want to be argumentative?
Do you have any basis for your opinion or is it simply your gut feel and you want to be argumentative?
onepocketchump said:
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onepocketchump
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BackPocket9Ball said:
Karen has beaten plenty of pros in single sets. Allison has as well. Kelly is just getting started but she runs out as well as anyone. So, my basis is that they have already proven they can win any given set against top players. In any single set against any player the outcome would be a toss up. I guarantee you that in the IPT Sigel/Jones match that the score would have been A LOT closer if, maybe even a different result if any one of those three had been playing. And I say this despite having watched Sigel run out something like seven or eight racks.
Loree allowed Mike to freewheel, these girls won't. Have you ever seen any of them match up at 8-ball?
Karen has won 2 Joss Tour events. How many other players have done that? Bet it's a short list. The Joss tour is considered the toughest regional tour in America. Karen's consistently high finishes on the Joss Tour prove she can compete. Allison won the only SouthEast event she entered beating Tommy Kennedy in the finals. Kelly stepped in and won three local tourmaments here with a high handicap, spotting the field as much as the six out and the break.
So, in the format of the IPT we will see how they stack up. I bet you will be surprised at where they finish. Maybe Bernie's expectation of Allison being number four is a bit high, but that is ONLY because the field has a small percentage of females compared to the number of males. A mongoose can take down one cobra at a time but even the best mongoose will have a hard time consistently taking down a hundred cobras.
So, yes, I would put any of them in the box for one set against anyone. In any single set I firmly believe that all three of these women have the skill and knowledge to win. If you have anybody that you believe will win every set every time against any one of these three then give me 10 to 1 odds on the money and we will let them play 10 sets of 8 or 9 ball. I will bet up to $1000 per set and freeze up 10 sets worth as long as you freeze up 10x the money. Now, of course you are going to come back and tell me that I have no faith and am a nit and a locksmith and whatever. But here is what YOU missed in my statement - any single set against any top pro even is GAMBLING. If you think they could NEVER win then bet accordingly. Obviously, they can and do win, so I'll never see that bet.
So, don't act like they can't play. Just because Karen and Allison aren't out gambling all the time does not mean that they couldn't hang if they CHOSE to take that path. They do REAL WELL the way it is while the majority of men players stay broke.
There is no onle alive that wins all the time, in gambling or tournaments. I'll tell you this though. IF I were a millionaire, then I would take Kelly Fisher off the WPBA and go around the country BUSTING a lot of so-called high rollers.
I would bet that inside of a year no one BUT the top players would consider playing her even. Kelly is a better player than both Allison and Karen. You'll see it when she gets comfortable over here.
John
onepocketchump said:
At least you realize...
onepocketchump said:
onepocketchump said:
What you seem to miss is very few people are saying that Allison and Karen are unable to take a single set off the top players. They simply lack the skills to go the distance on the IPT tour and be one of the top performers. Earl has lost race to 11 matches to local shortstops in premier events, he is still a far better player but anyone with some skills can get hot and beat someone once in a while and Allison and Karen have the skills to upset a pro on occasion.
onepocketchump said:
Realizing this you really should shut up with your ludicrous locking up 10 sets for $1000 at 10/1 on the money bullshit bets that you know as well as anyone else are ludicrous. You were offered some realistic bets with regards to the women such as me picking a single male player that will end the season ahead of all 3 of these women at the end of the season but you ignore them because you have zero real faith in the women to play at an equal level as the men as anyone else here. You just like to argue this useless topic despite not believing your tripe yourself and that is VERY clear.
onepocketchump said:
Its so typical for someone to exaggerate how good someone plays when they know that person and see him/her play often. Kelly Fisher beat some male shortstop, big deal. Are you telling me that you would put her up against Efren, Alex Pagulayan, or Corey Deuel even? And John no offense because I think you are a cool guy, but you are not showing alot of heart asking for such ridiculous odds. If you are so confident in your horse then why don't you just play even. 10-1 odds is ridiculous.
Interesting...
Years ago i remember hearing of a sprinter who claimed she could beat any man alive to the finish line in a 100 meter race..all she wanted was a 10 meter heard start..Is there something wrong with that ...U bet..Run on you merits and skills..Same in pool...If Kelly/Karen/Allison are so skillful as to think they can match up against the top players for serious cash let them play even...Spot..Only time i should hear of spot is "see Spot run"..cuetechasaurus said:
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onepocketchump
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Celtic said:
No dick, I have plenty of faith in them. I also realize that they are in the minority and as such have an uphill battle. You are right, I don't have the faith to put them up even against Efren or Johnny in gambling sessions. I also don't believe that they WILL LOSE EVERY SINGLE SET as some people have either said or insinuated. That is my point that you will never GET, ever.
And, furthermore, I certainly believe that the three women I mentioned can and do play at an "equal" level with the men, the issue being that there are three of them and hundreds of men who play the same speed.
Your bets turned into nonsense so there was no bet. My offers were to illustrate that all you WANTED to do was dis the women. Was it you or some equally obnoxious asshole that said that Karen, Allison and Kelly would end up in the bottom 20% of the field at the IPT? Or were you the dick that said they would lucky to barely make the top 75 IF THEY PLAYED THEIR BEST?
I offered to bet you based on YOUR statements, not mine. Your problem if YOUR NUTS disappeared. If you are so convinced of your position then the odds shouldn't matter, a lock is a lock isn't it?
John
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onepocketchump
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cuetechasaurus said:
I am not confident that they can beat those guys in a gambling session. They know it and I know it. The bet was to illustrate that they wouldn't lose every set all the time to those guys like some people here want to spout off.
How about we turn it around? Since the other side is SO CONVINCED that the girls HAVE NO CHANCE, why do the odds matter? I am not asking for a ball spot, or games or anything else that makes winning any single game or set easier physically. Just simply better odds that make tackling the best in the world worthwhile. Since they HAVE NO CHANCE, as has been stated here by some people, it ought to be a NO BRAINER to give the odds.
And this is my point - it's easy to type in that the women will get crushed, that they can't compete with the men, and other equally finite statements but hard to back it up when asked to financially. Any one can bet even money when they feel that their guy is a LOCK to win. Whenever I get in a game where I am a lock to win - or when the "rail" feels I am a lock to win - they can't get the money out fast enough to get a piece of my action. But when I am in a tough game they not only won't bet with me they want to bet against me. That's pretty nitty if you ask me. So, lastly, once again, if the men are a LOCK to beat the women every time they play then I have $100 to bet on EVERY SINGLE IPT match where a woman plays a nationally known male player as long as anyone will give me 10:1 odds. Hell, I could probably get that bet in a heartbeat from Stan James.
John
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onepocketchump
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cuetechasaurus said:
You don't get it. One time someone was arguing with me in a little bar/poolroom about playing pool and he was using a pro's name to illustrate his point, I disagreed with him, and he turned to me and said loudly, "How many pros do YOU know" and before I could respond, my friend pipes up and says, "all of them".
I don't know all the pros. But I have spent a lot of time around quite a few of them. Besides simply observing them I have been fortunate to have learned from them and discussed pool with them. My statements about Kelly's game are based 100% on comparison with other pros I know. She runs out as well as any pro, male or female out there. What she lacks is match experience and that plays a huge part in knowing what the right shots are, and of course, she lacks a lot of the tricks that pros learn over time. But, on pure talent, she LACKS nothing that Johnny, Efren or any other top pro has.
I will make this BET even. Show Kelly any shot and within twenty tries she will have it down consistently. The only stipulation is that whoever shows her the shot must be able to perform that shot themselves at whatever consistency is reasonable. I don't want people coming up with impossible shots that they heard about someone making in 1850.
John
Oh, you're bright. You claim...
And then follow right in the next paragraph with...
And then claim
Ignoring the fact that I said YOU TAKE ALL THREE OF YOUR WOMEN AND I WILL PICK ONE LONE MALE THAT WILL END THE SEASON AHEAD OF THEM. Hell I will pick 5 men that will likely end the season ahead of them, you can pick the one you want to be my horse.
THAT gives you a 3-1 advantage on the number of horses you have in the race. Your women are not a minority in this bet, they are a majority. 3>1, it is grade 1 math man.
There is nothing nonsense about my bet at all. I am giving you the 3 best women players in the world and saying I will pick one of any 5 top men players that will beat then ALL by the seasons end. This is a bet that gives you 3 horses to my one, only you have to sweat the women, but then you keep saying they are equals with the best men in the world, so this 3-1 advantage of yours should make this bet a no brainer. But you are an all talk nit who does not believe the shit he shovels and is always jumping onto these threads for nothing more then a chance to argue a goofball point that he does not even believe. Some would call that a troll.
onepocketchump said:
And then follow right in the next paragraph with...
onepocketchump said:
And then claim
onepocketchump said:
Ignoring the fact that I said YOU TAKE ALL THREE OF YOUR WOMEN AND I WILL PICK ONE LONE MALE THAT WILL END THE SEASON AHEAD OF THEM. Hell I will pick 5 men that will likely end the season ahead of them, you can pick the one you want to be my horse.
THAT gives you a 3-1 advantage on the number of horses you have in the race. Your women are not a minority in this bet, they are a majority. 3>1, it is grade 1 math man.
onepocketchump said:
There is nothing nonsense about my bet at all. I am giving you the 3 best women players in the world and saying I will pick one of any 5 top men players that will beat then ALL by the seasons end. This is a bet that gives you 3 horses to my one, only you have to sweat the women, but then you keep saying they are equals with the best men in the world, so this 3-1 advantage of yours should make this bet a no brainer. But you are an all talk nit who does not believe the shit he shovels and is always jumping onto these threads for nothing more then a chance to argue a goofball point that he does not even believe. Some would call that a troll.
I expect Allison and Karen to turn a few heads on the IPT and have some good finishes, but to say that they will be consistantly be beating the likes of Archer, Hohmann, Reyes, etc is just ridiculous IMO. Karen has won two Joss Tour events and that's great, how often do you see Efren or Archer play in these events? Can anyone provide me with an example of Allison or Karen beating a top male pro? Oh and Jim Rempe is NOT a top male pro.
sniper said:
Karen beat Mika Immonen in one of those tournaments, and one or two more pros, but I don't remember their names. That doesn't mean that she plays better than them, but it does mean that Karen can play. I don't see her or Allison winning any of these events, however.
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onepocketchump
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Celtic said:
Yup, some would and do, whether it's true or not. The issue HERE is that YOU made some dumbass statements about how badly the women will do in your opinion and when called on it - your response was to change the criteria and not even own up to what you said in the first place.
Wasn't it you who said that Karen would be LUCKY to make it into the top 75 and then ONLY if she played her VERY BEST?
Let's just bet $1000 on that alone. I bet Karen will finish 2006 higher than #75. Oh screw it, I'll spot you 15 places, and bet $1000 that Karen Corr finishes at #60 or higher. This is just using YOUR OWN WORDS - based on what YOU predicted will happen. How secure are you in your predictive powers now? Didn't you say that Kelly Fisher would be lucky to NOT finish in the bottom 20%? Your asinine comments were all about where the women would finish - not which men would be higher ranked, which guys are "better" and so on. You made general statements that insinuated that the women would be LUCKY to make the cut.
And as ususal, you are nothing but a crawfishing nit when called out on YOUR OWN WORDS. So bet or get the hell out of the room cuz your ignorance is stinkin' up the place.
John
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onepocketchump
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sniper said:
Yup, Allison beat Tommy Kennedy in the finals of the one and only SouthEast tour event she played in. You remember him, the one who won the US Open against Johhny Archer.
And CJ Wiley said that he considers Allison a tough opponent after they sparred for most of a day where she started out by putting a four pack on him.
Allison has stated many times that she has nothing to prove by beating the guys. It's a no win situation, because if she wins she got lucky or they were distracted or some other bullcrap and if she loses then she was supposed to lose.
We'll see soon who's right. In the meantime I am glad that all the players are getting and opportunity like this.
I give anyone on here a sweat bet of $50 (which is about enough for a decent dinner at Outback) that Allison puts at least two current top ten players out of IPT tournaments in the coming year.
John