The Break Cue Lie

Agreed.
They make break cues not for marketing issues, but to meet the demands of the pool community. Even breaking with a playing cue will result is some sort of change to it. I've learn that by using my playing cue as a break cue, that I had to get it more maintained more than usual. Which would mean less time for me to shoot.... hey, for a long time I had only one cue so bringing it in to get it maintained bited the bag. So eventually I bought a breaking cue, i've obtained two benefits:
1. Less maintenance on both cues than having one cue doing two jobs.
2. Lessons learned on breaking efficiently.
 
tigerallenyim said:
Agreed.
They make break cues not for marketing issues, but to meet the demands of the pool community. Even breaking with a playing cue will result is some sort of change to it. I've learn that by using my playing cue as a break cue, that I had to get it more maintained more than usual. Which would mean less time for me to shoot.... hey, for a long time I had only one cue so bringing it in to get it maintained bited the bag. So eventually I bought a breaking cue, i've obtained two benefits:
1. Less maintenance on both cues than having one cue doing two jobs.
2. Lessons learned on breaking efficiently.
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Completely agreed. Less re-tipping on your cue. Less maintenance on the shafts. Less chance of damage to the playing cue.

I just recently got a bocote Jerico Stinger and man. Let me tell you what that thing is *insane* (for me anyway)
 
My .03

.01: I shape my tips the way I like them. They somewhat shape themselves thru use. The are shaped by my lathe and stroke. I find that if I use the same shape tip, I play more consistant. With that said, if I break with said tip, I will most certainly change the shape of the tip thus creating inconsistancy.

.02: I break with a custom SledgeHammer. Been using it for several years now and have developed a consistant break. I like it!!

.03: It probably doesn't bother Bernie to break with his playing cue because he doesn't get a chance to break except when playing the 8 Ball ghost!;)

Sorry Bernie, got to tell it like it is buddy!
Purdman:cool:
 
i read your replies,and most of them wer'e interesting, some did agree with me,yes, if you break like sigel in a downward motion, your playing shaft doesn't have a chance, however, if you break flat across at 19 mph,your cue will be perfect,without any clue of damage. and this is the other point i want to drive home,the break shot is pure luck, if you don't believe me, try this experiment, break 5 times with your favorite break cue, note the results, then break 5 times with your playing cue,was there a difference?

on an 8-ball break could you predict what would happen? the answer is no and no,the break is pure luck in 8-ball from the box, and your playing cue,does just as fine of a job without damage.
 
perhaps you might wish to rephrase the 8-ball statement.

I believe that the existence of most of the popular break or jump break cues today are due to the 9-ball crazy the last 20-30 years. They were designed so that players with weaker strokes were able to create more cue ball speed in order to get similar results like some of the pros were.

True, some players do prefer to break with a standard playing cue using a leather tip but there are quite a few players out there who break with a phenolic or specialty designed break cues and will swear by them.

Its not so much a scam but definitely a marketing strategy that just about every industry utilizes. Its simply supply and demand in motion. Public wants something that will improve their lives and the industry responded. In the process, they gave every possible reason they could think of to make their product appealing. It worked, like it does everywhere, with everything, at anytime.
 
8-ball bernie said:
i read your replies,and most of them wer'e interesting, some did agree with me,yes, if you break like sigel in a downward motion, your playing shaft doesn't have a chance, however, if you break flat across at 19 mph,your cue will be perfect,without any clue of damage. and this is the other point i want to drive home,the break shot is pure luck, if you don't believe me, try this experiment, break 5 times with your favorite break cue, note the results, then break 5 times with your playing cue,was there a difference?

on an 8-ball break could you predict what would happen? the answer is no and no,the break is pure luck in 8-ball from the box, and your playing cue,does just as fine of a job without damage.
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Dude, either you have a grandma break, or your playing cue IS a break cue, because you WILL NOT get the desired effect from breaking with your playing cue, especially if your playing cue has a soft tip on a thin flexible shaft.

Do you drive with your putter? NO.

My playing cue has a width of 11.75mm and a triangle tip on it. It is a little bit harder than most tips, but not half as hard as a phenolic. My shaft is very flexible on my playing cue, which translates into MORE SPIN, LESS IMPACT FORCE. MY break cue however, with its phenolic tip and 14mm shaft that is not flexible, transmits MORE ENERGY into the rack sending balls screaming for help.

Can you break with your playing cue, yes. Should you? Hell no, not if you don't want to RESHAPE and RETIP, and PURCHASE NEW SHAFTS, and HAVE SHITTY BREAK SPEED, and whatever else.

Get a clue man, you are wrong and everyone else is disagreeing with you.
 
final post from me on this subject, this is what i'm saying, the break in 8-ball from the box, is pure luck, and no matter what cue you break with, you can not~ and will not predict the results,it's up to god, so go ahead, spend a fortune on a break cue, if that is your fancy, but if the ipt continues,and breaking from the box in 8-ball stays as the current rules are, you will see, more and more players, selling off their break cues,because~~~~~in 8-ball breaking from the box is 100% unpredictable.the end,over and out.
 
8-ball bernie said:
it is in my opinion, that a while back, when pool players started buying break cues, that they wer'e told that you can damage your playing cue,so you need a cheaper cue to break with.then manufactueres saw that players wer'e buying cheaper cues as if to not damage their playing cue, so they sold us on, here look these are cues that are made to improve your break. question, what would happen if you broke with your playing cue? and used the exact same force/speed as you would with a so called "break cue" my answer?= the same results, first of all, no damage would occur to your precious playing cue, none what so ever! your tip will remain intact, ferrull will hold up,and your shaft will be the same as well. my point? break cues do not improve your break,and more importantly, you can not damage your playing cue,if you chose to use it as a break shot cue as well.
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After reading this I'm reminded of the Principal's speech in the movie Billy Madison,

"Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."

Bernie, you make me smile, thank-you. :)
 
The biggest issue in breaking with your playing cue is the tip. I had the same problem as Snapshot in that tips would occassionally fly off when I broke.

As far as having a predictable break, yes if you practice it you can make predictions and they should be making the head ball in the side pocket and stopping the cue in the middle of the table when not breaking from the box which is typically only seen in the IPT. As far as the IPT goes, if there was no discernable difference in breaking with a leather tip and a phenolic tip, why did the IPT outlaw the phonelic tip? Because it gives the player an advantage...

Jim
 
8-ball bernie said:
final post from me on this subject, this is what i'm saying, the break in 8-ball from the box, is pure luck...
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You really have no clue what you are talking about. If you are playing 8ball or rotation you can not break softly. It's not a question of just pocketing a ball on the break, but really trying to get all the balls open to possibly run the table too. People who break hard need a harder and more durable ferrule and a harder tip helps too. Who in their right mind would slam a break shot with a ivory Ferrule and have a good chance of it cracking on them. You are clueless if you believe that a ferrule can not crack or break. You will NEVER get a clean open rack breaking soft in rotation, 8 Ball and 10 Ball. You have a chance in 9ball or 7ball because of less resistance, but once you add another ball your odds of an open rack really diminish. Once again you prove that you don't know Jack from Jill.
 
hahahahahah

junior718 said:
Well for Bernie its ok cause he dont really do much breaking.
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Very funny, lol!
Absolutely correct. Bernie breaks only if he wins the lag!
Bernie loves to give bad advice and spew on about things he really doesn't have any expertise in. It may have a negative affect on new pool players but true pool players will realize that Bernie is not very knowledgeable.

Bernie, Do the entire pool community right and do not offer any more tips!!!
Thanks
Sincerely yours, Pool World at Large
 
8-ball bernie said:
it is in my opinion, that a while back, when pool players started buying break cues, that they WER'E....
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Also on another note. If you make the mistake once, fine; But THERE IS NO SUCH WORD AS WER'E!!! You spell it wrong EVERYTIME!!! It's either we're, were or where!
 
8-ball bernie said:
final post from me on this subject, this is what i'm saying, the break in 8-ball from the box, is pure luck, and no matter what cue you break with, you can not~ and will not predict the results,it's up to god, so go ahead, spend a fortune on a break cue, if that is your fancy, but if the ipt continues,and breaking from the box in 8-ball stays as the current rules are, you will see, more and more players, selling off their break cues,because~~~~~in 8-ball breaking from the box is 100% unpredictable.the end,over and out.
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It was up to God when he wrote the laws of physics. Have you studied physics? I have, somewhat extensively, but when I was faced with a difficult problem or equation i didn't pray about it.

Pool is not chaos, it is governed by laws which are determinant in form. Yes we may have trouble predicting the outcome of a break, but only because we are human. How do you think video game software programmers write the code for the game? Physics, predictable, calculable, physics.

Let me give it too you this way, may be too over your head, but here I go.

When two spherical objects collide they transfer energy to eachother. Some of the energy is lost in this collision which can be heard or seen (by a high speed video). When the object striking the other is deformed, it loses energy. A deformation is proportional to an objects density. If an objects is "softer" is will deform more, producing a weaker collision. (ie. not as much impact force, breaks don't spread with as much velocity, lesser chance of making a ball, etc.).

Therefore, if you use a harder (phenolic resin or other substance) tip. More energy is transferred to the cue ball equaling greater impact velocity which in turn produces a greater probability of making a ball on the break.

There, undisputable fact.

Billiard-ball collisions

http://www.silcom.com/~aludwig/Physics/Particle_collisions.htm
 
supergreenman said:
I'd go to 8-ball bernie for tax advice before I went to him for advice on pool.
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If you did that YOU'D get a call from the IRS really really fast... or in Bernie's language , YO'UD.
 
8-ball bernie said:
question, what would happen if you broke with your playing cue? and used the exact same force/speed as you would with a so called "break cue" my answer?= the same results
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This is not an accurate statement. More conical tapers and different hardnesses in materials will yield different results in cue ball velocity. There is analytical data showing this.

Also, as mentioned before, mushrooming is a possibility with soft single layer tips. Further, if you have an ivory ferrule, there is a well-known possibility of damage to your cue - which is (generally) not present for phenolic tipped break cues.

Moreover, in the high stakes world of professional pool, any advantage that can be gained by using specialized equipment can be the difference between winning and losing.

-td
 
Tristan said:
If you break hard, your tip will flatten, mushroom, and wear out more quickly. Also one might like to break with a different tip hardness/diameter and/or shaft stiffness than that of their playing cue.

If you break soft it probably wouldn't make much difference.

--
Tristan
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I play with a predator shaft with a soft Moori tip and I don't think it can take many sessions of playing 9 Ball for 5 hours. The tip will flatten and mushroom and the shaft itself has a hollow section behind the ferrule. I just don't think a shaft like this is intended to break with in 9 ball. My break cue has a stiff shaft with a phenolic ferrule tip combo and it's almost indestructable while my playing shaft is much more fragile.
 
td873 said:
This is not an accurate statement. More conical tapers and different hardnesses in materials will yield different results in cue ball velocity. There is analytical data showing this.

Also, as mentioned before, mushrooming is a possibility with soft single layer tips. Further, if you have an ivory ferrule, there is a well-known possibility of damage to your cue - which is (generally) not present for phenolic tipped break cues.

Moreover, in the high stakes world of professional pool, any advantage that can be gained by using specialized equipment can be the difference between winning and losing.

-td
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uhhhhh, thanks for reiterating my above post that proves this statement
 
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