The break, let's debate

Slasher

Slasher

KE = 0.5 • m • v2
Silver Member
Just how important do you think the break is, I see some players winning without having an exceptional break at all. You would think a good break gives you the oppportunity to string racks together so would result in more won matches, but the reality is that does not always happen.

Cheers
Slasher
 
Slasher said:
Just how important do you think the break is, I see some players winning without having an exceptional break at all. You would think a good break gives you the oppportunity to string racks together so would result in more won matches, but the reality is that does not always happen.

Cheers
Slasher
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I think that having a solid all around game is much more important than having an exceptional break but lacking in safeties, position play etc. For example, if you can break and drop 3 balls consistently but you can't run more than 2 after that what good is it? However, if you can only make 1 ball consistently but you can run out say 50 percent of the time, or play a solid safety, I would consider that much better
 
Believe it or not, there are some people who seem to think that the break is actually a slight disadvantage. I don't know if this is true because I wasn't there to hear it first hand, but I heard that even Pat Fleming acknowledged that through all the filming of 9 ball matches over the years, they (the peope at accu-stats) have noticed that the racking player wins more often than the breaking player. I heard of someone else who did a little study (using accu-stats' tapes, I believe) and after so many matches, determined that it was something like a 58% disadvantage to be breaking. Supposedly, the matches that were used for the study all involved only top players.

I don't really buy into this, regardless of statistics, and I would much rather be breaking than racking, but who knows ... maybe they're on to something here.
 
That doesn't really surprise me.
let's look at what events have to happen for the break to be an advantage
You have to:
Make a ball
See the next ball on
Be able to make said ball
Be able to make it and get position on the next ball
Be able to play a "good" safety from said ball
the cueball needs to stay on the table :D
Tall orders me thinks
 
Slasher said:
Just how important do you think the break is, I see some players winning without having an exceptional break at all. You would think a good break gives you the oppportunity to string racks together so would result in more won matches, but the reality is that does not always happen.

Cheers
Slasher
Click to expand...

The break is critical. Guys like Archer, Strickland, and Busta are playing either
6 or 7 ball when breaking well. This is why Efren does not string racks as often. Even for amateurs, if you can run an easy rack, then the break ( translation=control of the table) is huge. Of course, if you can only run 2-3 balls, then the break is meaningless. You should be bowling...
 
Sometimes the Difference, Usually Not

The break is simply one of many things on which a match hinges. Sometimes, you break better than opponent, sometimes you pocket better, kick better or play better safeties. Any or all of these can be the difference. At the very top competitive levels, where there are few errors in general execution of shots, the break is much more likely to be the difference. Far too many players who make excuses after a loss cite their break, in which there is an undeniable luck factor, before citing the shortcomings in the rest of their play. Sometimes, their assessment will be accurate, but all too often, such players are living in denial.
 
I think good tight racking on new cloth has changed the importance to some degree. Steve Davis is a good example, thats hardly a ball crushing impact :)
When I look back on matches I have lost I rarely cite the break as the culprit. it's usually simple unforced errors or the exceptional play of my opponent.
 
Jimmy M. said:
Believe it or not, there are some people who seem to think that the break is actually a slight disadvantage. I don't know if this is true because I wasn't there to hear it first hand, but I heard that even Pat Fleming acknowledged that through all the filming of 9 ball matches over the years, they (the peope at accu-stats) have noticed that the racking player wins more often than the breaking player. I heard of someone else who did a little study (using accu-stats' tapes, I believe) and after so many matches, determined that it was something like a 58% disadvantage to be breaking. Supposedly, the matches that were used for the study all involved only top players.

I don't really buy into this, regardless of statistics, and I would much rather be breaking than racking, but who knows ... maybe they're on to something here.
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Hey Jimmy, I've seen you break. And I've seen you play. You better be breaking when my money's riding on your game, sir...nice win over Nick !
 
Alot of players underestimate the importance of the break, most just try to kill the rack as hard as they can usually resulting with slower cue speed and less accuracy or shagging the QB from the other end of the pool hall. Going at it a little softer and leaving the QB center table outwieghs getting extra balls in (one's all you need) if not for the position but for fewer fouls. Having a couple different positions to break from is important for different tables/cloth and for when your original spot isn't working. I think the break is an advantage in 8-ball if it's working you'll have first choice. In 9-ball there's a little more luck, you need position on one ball but you can push out, you can hang the nine or sink it, I'd still rather have the break I think. I don't play much one pocket or straight pool advantage in one hole and you need a good shot in 14.1 IMO.
 
the break in 9-ball on a regulation sized table is important, however on a bar sized table, it is the most important shot, except for pocketing the 9-ball! the only time the break isn't that important is when allison fisher, or efren reyes is playing, both of them have so-so break shots, yet their playing game is so strong, weak breaks don't mean much.
 
I think breaking is extremely important in many ways. Mental wise ... think about this-You are playing race to 5 for $20 and he breaks. You see him breaking and he doesn't make 1 ball and barley breaks them apart. You are having a good time and thinking this player has nothing on you! Know think about this-You are playing race to 5 for $20 and he breaks. He has a great break! I mean 2-3 balls go in the sound hurts your ears and he has a good shot on #ball. You are gonna be a little more nerves and thinking this guy might beat me. So...a good break is good for you mental wise, plus of course you wanna break'n run, lol. Well, I got homework and my arm hurts from pool today. Night guys!
P.S. Wish me luck in my tournament!
 
the mental edge may come in to play as you say in some cases.
couple weeks back in a doubles match race to 13 I put a stack of 5 then a stack of 4 back to back on em and it was all over from there, they folded like a house of cards lol :D

cheers
Slasher
 
Breaks are an important part of the game, no matter which game. Nothing much to debate there. In some games, they're indoubtedly more important. I'd actually say that it's more important in straights or one hole than 9 ball. I know that might sounds nuts to some, but if you open the pack in one of those games, or open it in the wrong way, you may as well sit down and start thinking up excuses to give the kids when ya don't have lunch money tomorrow morning, hehe.

In 9b, being a game with such an element of unpredictability, even a bad break with a clear shot on a 1-9 combo can turn around for ya pretty quickly and you might end up with a win.

In 14.1, even playing an average player, you might end up down 20-40 points from the get-go and get left a solid safe... that can really get to ya, especially if you lose the safety battle and watch another 20-40 take off for the other guy.
 
Slasher said:
Just how important do you think the break is, I see some players winning without having an exceptional break at all. You would think a good break gives you the oppportunity to string racks together so would result in more won matches, but the reality is that does not always happen.

Cheers
Slasher
Click to expand...

I agree to a certain extent, depending on the equipment. I would not want to give up the break to a good player on fast tables that have large, receptive pockets. It's too easy to pocket a ball and get a shot. Even if the player can't get out they'll control the game. On very tight tables (about 4" corners) it's not a huge issue.

Chris
 
the break is just another shot. i break with what i play with. the guy who made the cue told me that if i couldnt break with it, then it wasnt worth playing with. so i break with my Szamboti
 
I'd say that depends on how well you break. I wouldn't say it's worth two points, maybe two easy banks - since there is still the chance you'll screw up.

Thing is, if the breaker leaves an easy return, a good player will bank into the pack and bring 3-5 balls toward their pocket, if not drop one and run out.
 
Depends who you're playing Slash. Playing good players in 9ball: without a good break (not necessarily a hard break) you're dead. Even if you don't always have a great shot after the break, at least you're in control of the table. You get to push, or try to safety, or try to pot a ball. Point is, you're in control. Against players who run racks, you have to have a complete game. Simple. My opinion anyway.
 
one pocket break

jer9ball said:
Depends who you're playing Slash. Playing good players in 9ball: without a good break (not necessarily a hard break) you're dead. Even if you don't always have a great shot after the break, at least you're in control of the table. You get to push, or try to safety, or try to pot a ball. Point is, you're in control. Against players who run racks, you have to have a complete game. Simple. My opinion anyway.
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I believe that the break in one pocket is worth one and half to two balls. Certainly the ball that will go to your opponents corner if he is breaking in a semi competent manner and one bank. One of the primary objectves in good one pocket is to turn the break around if your oppenent has a good one pocket break. Jersey Red , Grady Matthews ,Ronnie Allen, Strawberry Brooks, now Cliff Joyner were masters at turning breaks back to their advantage.How i wish TV would mature to the point where pool televised could display these skills, all be itthese are discreet points of pool they are fascinating to watch as they are executed.If Red were still with us he would say Ill either give you a couple of balls or the break .
 
Duck said:
I believe that the break in one pocket is worth one and half to two balls. Certainly the ball that will go to your opponents corner if he is breaking in a semi competent manner and one bank. One of the primary objectves in good one pocket is to turn the break around if your oppenent has a good one pocket break. Jersey Red , Grady Matthews ,Ronnie Allen, Strawberry Brooks, now Cliff Joyner were masters at turning breaks back to their advantage.How i wish TV would mature to the point where pool televised could display these skills, all be itthese are discreet points of pool they are fascinating to watch as they are executed.If Red were still with us he would say Ill either give you a couple of balls or the break .
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Keep up the good posts, duck. You are an asset to this forum.
 
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