In cue sticks this equates to low quality materials, such as Plastics used to replace Phenolic in critical areas that suffer stress in all Pool Cues. Adhesives that are low grade, and non-thermostatic that will break down and release materials that have been bonded over time or if exposed to temperatures above 80 degrees for long periods of time.
You know all this for a fact? Are you an engineer and you know all the material data specs on all the materials used in all the cues made? You know the brand and source of the adhesives? If you are an engineer then have you have run tests with verifiable peer-reviewable data to back up your claims?
What is thermostatic? Wiktionary defines it as "having or maintaining a constant temperature."
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/thermostatic
So in your mind there are glues that are thermostatic and glues that aren't and the "good ones" are ones that maintain a constant temperature.
There is no such thing - to use your technique of making GIANT fonts to make a point I want everyone to read this.
There is no such thing as "non-thermostatic adhesive" as Craig Rittel claims there is.
Please stop making claims about how the cues are built and just tell people that you have no idea as you have never been to a Chinese cue factory and you don't know what types of materials they are using nor what types of glues.
Just a point of reference Craig. The average temperature here stays above 80 degress. The majority of the cues made in China are not made in air conditioned moisture controlled environments and yet they come out just fine. If what you say is true then the cues would be falling apart even as they are being built.
Woods, that have not been properly aged and dried are another material that suffers in a major way since it is the base or foundation for everything else.
And as I have explained many times the factory that makes Fury cues has $10,000,000 in wood stock that is ageing and drying in EXACTLY the same manner that the best cue makers in the USA do it. Only on a larger scale.
The woods used are soaked with wood stabilizer in the attempt to counteract movement mainly from shrinkage which is caused by the woods having a moisture content that was too high when used. This is also true with the shaft wood, and much of it also has poor grain which leads to problems down the road.
Sometimes wood is treated with wood stabilizer just like the American manufacturers do it. Where do you think that the Chinese learned this technique of dipping the cue parts? But they don't do this on all cues as I have explained above our factory has $10 million in wood that is drying naturally.
The fact is that the vast majority of the cues made from our factory stay straight and have very little problems as is evidenced by the extremely low rate of returns and the CONTINUING purchases from dealers who have to face their customers.
What I would recommend to anyone who is listening is if you are going to buy an import buy one that has a warranty. Cue and Case is a major distributer located in Florida, they have made a good name for themselves with Brands such as Players, Lucasi, Vintage, The GW Collection, and some lesser brands. McDermott also has a couple of lines of import cues that they are importing and selling, and they also strive to insure that products bearing their name brands such as Star, and Lucky are also quality products. Both of these companies have started offering Warranties for their import products and I personally applaud them for doing so, this shows that their products are a better quality than the others being imported.
It does not show that their products are of better quality. It just shows that they are confident enough in the product to be willing to offer a warranty. For all you know the products from the companies that currently do not offer a stated lifetime warranty could be the exact same product with a different name on it. This is exactly the same situation in car sales where you have two brands with different warranties, one much better than another, but both cars have the same chassis, same engine, same electronics and only look different with a different label. To assume that because one warranty is better make that product a "better" product is a failure in logic.
Guiseppe offers a lifetime warranty. Instroke does not. Which is the better case?
I totally agree that their products are the best being imported into the USA today, now that may seem like a very jaded statement, stop and think about why don't the others offer warranties against warpage, enough said.
Enough said? Your implication is that the products from the other companies isn't good enough to offer these warranties. Will your attitude change tomorrow if suddenly these other brands which currently do not offer the same level of warranty as the ones you think are the best start offering the exact same warranty?
Since I represent Fury cues would you come out and say that Fury cues are as good as Lucasis if Fury offers the same exact warranty as Lucasi does? If I made that announcement right now, which would mean that it applies to the thousands of cues sitting in our warehouse right now would you make the same public announcement?
Do you sell Lucasi cues and McDermott Star and Lucky cues? It seems awfully convenient for you to single out these brands when you want to talk about people being motivated just by money.
The truth is Craig that if you were to take a lot of brands to the local lab and have them cut up and analyzed then you would find that they have almost identical construction. Why is this? Well for one reason the engineers from the big cue makers in China have worked for both companies so they share the techniques with their new employer. For the other they are always studying how to build cues in a better way so they frequently buy the competition's cues and dissect them, as well they buy cues from all brands such as Schon, etc to learn what they can from them.
The real reason that cue companies are offering the warranties is because the rate of returns is low enough to absorb the cost. Almost every importer of note will take back cues of any age that show manufacturer's defects even without a stated warranty to that effect. The warranty is a marketing tool that makes this longstanding policy into a stated benefit.
I agree that a warranty is a powerful consideration when purchasing a cue in so much as the warranty doesn't give something in the large print that the fine print takes away. It's easy to warrant against warpage and then attach conditions to it that allow the company to not replace the cue if it warps. But one company offering a warranty does not make that cue better than the cues from a company that does not.
When it comes to manufacturing equipment and craftsman the Chinese can compete with any country in the world, and I would never argue with anyone about this fact.
Well you should because it's not a fact. I felt the same way when I was ignorant of China and Chinese people and manufacturing. In may areas the Chinese are very competitive and skilled and in other areas they are far behind the curve. If you bothered to really study this or if you had spent some time in China then you would know more about this subject and be able to make statements grounded in real experience rather than based on uneducated opinion.
However, Cues being imported are built to the standards of the importer not the builder, and this is where the difference in quality comes into the picture.
Again you distort the picture. Cues being made in China have different price levels and those price levels dictate what materials and what amount of care goes into the cues. That's all. The importer isn't deliberately specifying what materials have to be used and what shortcuts to take. If it were up to the importer then they would insist on the best parts and best production at the lowest price. Why not as that would give them the largest advantage.
The Chinese cue maker has to be able to build cues profitably at every price point because that is his business model. When a customer shows up and says I want to buy $50,000 worth of cues at $5 a cue then the supplier has to try and satisfy that demand. If the next customer says they want to buy $300 cues then the supplier has a lot more room to use the best parts and take the most time and care to build those cues.
So the difference in quality is purely based on price. That's why there are $30 retail cues in the marketplace.
You however like to make a practice of lumping them all together and making blanket statements about the quality.
Like I said in the beginning of this post it is all about the almighty Dollar, and greed certainly plays a major factor.
Yes, it's greedy to want to make money. Why are you in business? Would you want any person to come into your pool room and tell you how much you were allowed to charge, who you were allowed to buy from and who you were allowed to employ? Yet you want to label others as greedy who exercise their choice to have cues made overseas to maximize their own ability to prosper.
To keep this really simple - let's say that Importer X buys 10,000 cues a year from overseas and USA-Based Cuemaker Y has to fire 18 employees because of the sales he is no longer making to Importer X. Importer X on the other hand now has to hire 18 people to handle all the extra business that comes with being able to sell more cues at a broader range of prices with more profit. Why is that wrong or "greedy"?
Business is about making a profit and without profit there is no innovation.
While I know some of those who work for or have personal interest in some of the companies importing cues will attempt to dispute and wash over what I have said.
Surely you don't expect your word to be taken as gospel do you? You don't bow down for others and allow their comments to stand without challenge so why should yours be given that status? You sell McDermott import cues and probably Lucasi as well so you have a personal interest in touting them over others. As pointed out above you really have no idea what the material properties of cues are as evidenced by your "Thermostatic Glue" comments. Why do you then think that your comments on business motivation should be taken any more seriously?
But the fact remains that the companies these individuals are involved with do not offer a Warranty on their products. This is a company policy that clearly says one thing at least to me, we do not have long term faith in our products as they are built today, and we do not want to spend any additional money than we currently spending.
So now it's all about the warranties and that's the deciding factor for you. Ok we will see if you change your tune when other companies add similar warranties to there marketing package.
People take the time to ask the right questions, and listen closely to the answers given by those selling or supporting those products and you will see they are hollow and have no substance.
And what are the right questions? Ask them of me here publicly since I am one of those you target and then let everyone else judge if they are hollow or not.
In the end you get what you pay for and if it seems to good to be true some where along those lines it certainly is.
And sometimes you get more than pay for. Sometimes you get a damn good cue for a good price. Sometimes you get less than you pay for and get a crappy cue for a high price. Sometimes either cue could be made anywhere on Earth.
You are always subject to getting the golden egg or getting a lemon with any transaction. There is no guarantee in life which is why it's called life and not security.
There are tons of gadgets sold on late night television that offer lifetime warranties and money back guarantees. They know that the majority of people who buy their products won't return them even if they are not happy with it. They know full well the rate of returns that they will have to deal with and have factored in the real cost of the "lifetime warranty". it's a marketing gimmick pure and simple. But Craig, you are right in that it does show one very very important point that is particular to the cue industry which goes right to the beginning of this thread, (I will do this in Craig Rittel style)
AND THAT IS THAT CURRENT IMPORT CUES ARE VERY GOOD NOW.
did everyone hear me better when I shouted like Craig does?
