The cost of a Custom Cue

[JoeyInCali]

<sarcasm> Hey, I have an idea, lets all see if we can bring the big guys down by badmouthing them, and letting everyone know that no cue should cost more than $500.... </sarcasm>

Don't forget custom fitting and short wait.

 

[bubsbug]

I don't know if I missing your argument or not. In this other thread, you told Arnot his prices were ridiculous. It seems you think some are charging too much for their cues. He must be selling some or he wouldn't be asking that price. He's also got quite a wide range of prices on his site, so there's probably a cue on there for everybody. That's a lot more than most cue makers would offer.

For example, my prices start out at $900 for a four point cue with veneers and ringwork. You may think that's high or you might think that is low. Nobody is forcing you to buy the cue. I really don't care if another cue maker is charging less or offers a sneaky or a conversion for $200-$300 or $3,000 for a cue similar to mine. I don't think I would sell many cues if I was trying to match the $3,000 guy and I'm not interested in competing with guys like Eddie Wheat or Kevin Varney (no offense to either of you, your names just pop up here frequently).

At the same time, the person could go to Arnot's site and decide that he likes his cues, but can't afford one of his high end customs, but there are still plenty of options available to them.

The cue market is no different than any other industry. There are choices and price ranges for everybody. You wouldn't walk into the Ferrari dealership and tell them that they should be charging less because it doesn't take them any more time to build the car than it takes to build a Ford would you? Hell, it probably takes less time because they're not made in America, so the workers probably aren't as lazy. Cues are no different. You can't expect to get a Szamboti for the price of a Player (do they even make those anymore?).

If you don't like the price, then don't buy it. If the prices are really too high, then the cue maker will realize it when he's not selling any cues. There's no need to come on here and complain.

You must have missed this guys post because he deleated it. It was about repairs and he was charging something like $30 to replace a basic tip. Again, I believe that this is taking advantage of people. I have no responce to his price on custom cues.

Why do CM's always see the need to compare there industry to other industries. Its like comparing apples to oranges, it will never be the same. Cue making is a skilled trade. No Education required just plain old experience. And you want to compare this to the medical field full of Doctors who have spent half their lives going to school. or the auto industry full of the same type of people with phd's, Give me a break.

 

[BHQ]

You must have missed this guys post because he deleated it. It was about repairs and he was charging something like $30 to replace a basic tip. Again, I believe that this is taking advantage of people. I have no responce to his price on custom cues.

Why do CM's always see the need to compare there industry to other industries. Its like comparing apples to oranges, it will never be the same. Cue making is a skilled trade. No Education required just plain old experience. And you want to compare this to the medical field full of Doctors who have spent half their lives going to school. or the auto industry full of the same type of people with phd's, Give me a break.

i couldnt pass on this one
auto workers????
OMG!!!
the local bar i hang out at is full of ford workers
educated??????? phd's???????
PHD to these guys is "pass her down"

bubs, werent you going to start building cues?
what happened with that?
got any progress pics to show?

 

[BarenbruggeCues]

Originally Posted by Tony Zinzola
The cue market is no different than any other industry. There are choices and price ranges for everybody. You wouldn't walk into the Ferrari dealership and tell them that they should be charging less because it doesn't take them any more time to build the car than it takes to build a Ford would you? Hell, it probably takes less time because they're not made in America, so the workers probably aren't as lazy. Cues are no different. You can't expect to get a Szamboti for the price of a Player (do they even make those anymore?).

If you don't like the price, then don't buy it.
Pretty simple.....but some people just can't understand this and want what they can't have or afford so they have to whine about.
If the prices are really too high, then the cue maker will realize it when he's not selling any cues. There's no need to come on here and complain.

You must have missed this guys post because he deleated it. It was about repairs and he was charging something like $30 to replace a basic tip. Again, I believe that this is taking advantage of people.
How is this considered taking advantage? There are options and if someone is willing to pay a price for what ever, I don't understand how this is ripping someone off. Just because you wouldn't pay it or don't think if you were doing the work that it would be worth it doesn't mean everyone else feels the same.

I have no responce to his price on custom cues.

Why do CM's always see the need to compare there industry to other industries.
Tony simply used two different type of cars as an analogy. He wasn't comparing building cues to any other industry that I seen.
Its like comparing apples to oranges, it will never be the same. Cue making is a skilled trade. No Education required just plain old experience.
I think in any skilled trade there has to be some form of education. Maybe not "formal" education but the successful builders surely educate themselves every day. Hands on experience is important in any field of endeavor. That's why they have internships.
And you want to compare this to the medical field full of Doctors who have spent half their lives going to school. or the auto industry full of the same type of people with phd's,
Again...where do you see this comparison being made? Maybe I missed it somewhere or it'd been deleted (Lord knows, that rarely happens on AZ Billiards forums).

Give me a break.

Just a guess....but it sounds to me like these are mostly the words and thoughts of someone who may have dumped a bunch of money into equipment and materials to strike it rich in the billiards industry and ended up falling flat on their duff. Just a guess.......

 

[JoeyInCali]

I have a card with Bill Gates signature that says I am engineer.
Somehow building a computer, installing software, troubleshooting LAN's and WAN's are easier than building a cue. A lot less costly too.
Hell, I crash one computer, I just clone another one and be up in an hour or two.
I wish I can do that with cues.

 

[BarenbruggeCues]

I have a card with Bill Gates signature that says I am engineer.
Somehow building a computer, installing software, troubleshooting LAN's and WAN's are easier than building a cue. A lot less costly too.
Hell, I crash one computer, I just clone another one and be up in an hour or two.
I wish I can do that with cues.

Quit comparing the two industries.

 

[JoeyInCali]

Quit comparing the two industries.

What's the difference making moonshine and making cues?
I dunno but some people get drunk making both.

 

[bubsbug]

Just a guess....but it sounds to me like these are mostly the words and thoughts of someone who may have dumped a bunch of money into equipment and materials to strike it rich in the billiards industry and ended up falling flat on their duff. Just a guess.......

No you are absolutely wrong. I havnt fallen at all. Oh, i stumble from time to time but thats about it. I am progressing at the pace I thought I would and am loving it all the way through it. I fiquer I have 30 more years to do this stuff. I repair approx 60 bar cues every week for free, or should I say in exchange for bar food. I have about 7 meal tickest from 6 different bars. I am tickled pink about this. I have learned very much from you guys, and appreciated it. I will probably purchase my first CNC before the year is out. If you were to ask anyone that knows me they would say that I am pretty frugal with my money. Money isnt the issue for me, or at least something within reason. If I think something is a fair deal, (not necessary a great deal) then I partisipate in it and thinking nothing about it. I make a good living and I dont have to hustle any one for it.

I used to know a guy that would purchase kmart cues, do a little tweeking of is own and get an extra $100 for it. Unfortinutaly this is the face that has been bestowed upon this industry. Arguing about price of materials and labor is doing little to change this opinion.

Billiards is know for hustling! State your price and be done with it and quit crying. Sooner or later you will fiquer it out.

 

[JoeyInCali]

No you are absolutely wrong. I havnt fallen at all. Oh, i stumble from time to time but thats about it. I am progressing at the pace I thought I would and am loving it all the way through it. I fiquer I have 30 more years to do this stuff. I repair approx 60 bar cues every week for free, or should I say in exchange for bar food. I have about 7 meal tickest from 6 different bars. I am tickled pink about this. I have learned very much from you guys, and appreciated it. I will probably purchase my first CNC before the year is out. If you were to ask anyone that knows me they would say that I am pretty frugal with my money. Money isnt the issue for me, or at least something within reason. If I think something is a fair deal, (not necessary a great deal) then I partisipate in it and thinking nothing about it. I make a good living and I dont have to hustle any one for it.

I used to know a guy that would purchase kmart cues, do a little tweeking of is own and get an extra $100 for it. Unfortinutaly this is the face that has been bestowed upon this industry. Arguing about price of materials and labor is doing little to change this opinion.

Billiards is know for hustling! State your price and be done with it and quit crying. Sooner or later you will fiquer it out.

More power to your crusade.
Here are the threads you started.
http://forums.azbilliards.com/search.php?searchid=1910305
I bet those who willingly gave you free tips and advice are really glad they helped you.
I'm pretty sure they saved you a dollar or two. But, those dollars spent in developing the skills don't count.
Billiards is known for hustling and crabs.

 

[BarenbruggeCues]

What's the difference making moonshine and making cues?
I dunno but some people get drunk making both.

Quit comparing the two industries!

 

[Flex]

Like I suggested thats his business and his option. If youre really that interested why not give him a call and ask.


Reading between the lines above its obvious you have issues with Arnot. Why not just lighten up some. And again if youre really interested in knowing more about his cues why not give him a call. That would be much better than making yourself look silly here.

Unfortunately, Mr. Wadsworth decided to do his best to belittle me and my ideas, not only in this but in other threads. He sent me an extremely offensive PM, which I don't plan on quoting here. I think his cues are beautiful. Would I buy one from him? Not after the bad rep he gave me, telling me he had no time to answer any of my questions, or something along that line.

Mr. Wadsworth came on here and defended Cue Components, whose problems you can read about in some other threads. I'm sorry Mr. Wadsworth got so upset that he apparently felt it necessary to delete his contributions to the threads. But he did say some extremely offensive things to various posters. Not everything he said was quoted by subsequent posters, so it can be difficult to reconstruct just what happened.

In any case, Mr. Wadsworth isn't on my potential list for direct purchases, for reasons that are obvious. (I won't be calling him.) Other cuemakers, both here on AZ and elsewhere, certainly are.

Flex

 

[TellsItLikeItIs]

Unfortunately, Mr. Wadsworth decided to do his best to belittle me and my ideas, not only in this but in other threads. He sent me an extremely offensive PM, which I don't plan on quoting here. I think his cues are beautiful. Would I buy one from him? Not after the bad rep he gave me, telling me he had no time to answer any of my questions, or something along that line.

Mr. Wadsworth came on here and defended Cue Components, whose problems you can read about in some other threads. I'm sorry Mr. Wadsworth got so upset that he apparently felt it necessary to delete his contributions to the threads. But he did say some extremely offensive things to various posters. Not everything he said was quoted by subsequent posters, so it can be difficult to reconstruct just what happened.

In any case, Mr. Wadsworth isn't on my potential list for direct purchases, for reasons that are obvious. (I won't be calling him.) Other cuemakers, both here on AZ and elsewhere, certainly are.

Flex

One look at my username should tell you Im apt to speak my mind. Anything I type on a keyboard Ill say to a mans face. Ill try not to insult anyone or hurt feelings but at the same time I will get my point across.

That said.

You both share the responsibility for your disagreements. Arnot has a passion for his work just like most cuemakers do. Its a damn tough business to survive in and some of us take offense to what appears to be demeaning remarks. Yes I thought your remark and several others you made were demeaning.

One remark Im referring to was your post asking about dyeing leather for your stacked wrap. Im not trying to single you out and I know it goes on every single day in here. But that doesnt make it any easier to swallow for the person trying to make a living at this crazy business. Theres at least one company that pays to advertise here that sells that leather. Theres also a reapair man that does a good job at a very fair price to install that leather. Why not throw a few bucks their way.

Theres nothing wrong with trying to save a few bucks by doing it yourself. I dont really have a problem with that. I quit doing repairs years ago. But can you imagine how cuemakers that do repairs and repair persons feel when they see or read information being passed around that could conceivably effect their income? Put yourself in that position and ask yourself honestly how you would feel.

Im not going to defend Arnot. Like I said earlier hes a grown man and can speak for himself. But when he defended Cue Components Im sure he was speaking of his personal experience with the man. If he had been through a bad experience with CC Im sure he would have stated that as well. Dont
think for a minute Im defending CC. I had my turn with them once and thats it.

I agree Arnot can be a gruff old fart sometimes. But the truth is if he is treated respectfully he would give a man his shirt off his back. That may not be a well known fact but it is the truth.

Cordially-Believe it or not.

 

[Flex]

One look at my username should tell you Im apt to speak my mind. Anything I type on a keyboard Ill say to a mans face. Ill try not to insult anyone or hurt feelings but at the same time I will get my point across.

That said.

You both share the responsibility for your disagreements. Arnot has a passion for his work just like most cuemakers do. Its a damn tough business to survive in and some of us take offense to what appears to be demeaning remarks. Yes I thought your remark and several others you made were demeaning.


I'm sorry you think that. It was not my intention to be demeaning. It's just too bad that prices being what they are for having a stack leather wrap are simply prohibitive for me. That's why I sought advice on how to do it myself.


One remark Im referring to was your post asking about dyeing leather for your stacked wrap. Im not trying to single you out and I know it goes on every single day in here. But that doesnt make it any easier to swallow for the person trying to make a living at this crazy business. Theres at least one company that pays to advertise here that sells that leather. Theres also a reapair man that does a good job at a very fair price to install that leather. Why not throw a few bucks their way.

I'm sorry once again that business is tough. As for throwing "a few bucks" to Ryan at Muellers, even $95 for a stack leather wrap is prohibitive to me. Sad to say, I'm not wallowing in cash, but I do like stack leather wraps, and especially the ones I've done... I like them more than those I've seen on many cues. If money were no issue for me, I'd ship the cues off today, but money is an issue for me. And as for making money at this "crazy business," one fellow begged me to do a stack leather wrap for his cue just like that on mine. I declined. Imagine I were to mess up a rather expensive Viking. It can happen, as I'm sure you know. He didn't care if I messed it up, but I did, and didn't take the work.

Theres nothing wrong with trying to save a few bucks by doing it yourself. I dont really have a problem with that. I quit doing repairs years ago. But can you imagine how cuemakers that do repairs and repair persons feel when they see or read information being passed around that could conceivably effect their income? Put yourself in that position and ask yourself honestly how you would feel.

Regarding stack leather wrap installation, I had read a few years ago, online, just how to do it. My method is better, IMHO. I simply wanted to know if others knew how to produce the penetration style leather. I have figured it out, I'm sure, and won't be passing that idea on to others, at least not for the time being. In the future, who knows? Since nobody apparently knows how to do it, except Tiger, what's the deal? Offhand, I can think of several ways to change the appearance of leather, stack and otherwise.


Im not going to defend Arnot. Like I said earlier hes a grown man and can speak for himself. But when he defended Cue Components Im sure he was speaking of his personal experience with the man. If he had been through a bad experience with CC Im sure he would have stated that as well. Dont
think for a minute Im defending CC. I had my turn with them once and thats it.

I agree Arnot can be a gruff old fart sometimes. But the truth is if he is treated respectfully he would give a man his shirt off his back. That may not be a well known fact but it is the truth.

Truth be told, it's pretty hard to respect someone who starts off, first, misreading, or misinterpreting, or misunderstanding, or whatever, my post on penetration style stack leather, and then jumping to conclusions about my intent and telling me I have a "lot of gall." Give me a break. He jumped to conclusions, and decided to go on the offensive, with explicitly offensive comments. I reacted. So what else is new?



Cordially-Believe it or not.

Yes, you are being cordial, just as I am. Thanks so much.

Flex