The definition of skid.

[mnorwood]

Players always refer to balls skidding on the diamond tables with new simonis. Also 3 cushion players talk about using skid to make certain shots and it is said that some shots are not possible without skid.

Are 3 cushion players and pool players talking about the same thing? How do you define skid in both instances?

Thanks,
Marcus

 

[Jeff G. Martin]

Here's a post from Bob Jewett in the giant thread regarding object balls being thrown.

Most of the time when people use the word "skid" in this context, it means a very, very extreme kind of throw due to the contact surface of the collision being much more sticky than it usually is. This seems to usually be from a chalk spot at the contact point. When you get a skid -- which is also called "cling" in the US, "kick" in the UK and other snooker-playing countries, and "bad contact" by carom players speaking in English -- the object ball may throw by several times its usual amount of throw.

But that is all separate from using side spin on the cue ball to throw an object ball.

For reference, with relatively clean but used balls, it is possible to get about 5 degrees of throw. That's the same as five inches in the length of your cue stick. You can get that throw from either spin or cut -- both can do it.

 

[dr_dave]

Players always refer to balls skidding on the diamond tables with new simonis. Also 3 cushion players talk about using skid to make certain shots and it is said that some shots are not possible without skid.

Are 3 cushion players and pool players talking about the same thing? How do you define skid in both instances?

Generally, "skid" implies "cling," which refers to excessive throw, usually caused by a chalk smudge.

With a slow stun shot close to a 1/2-ball hit, cut-induced throw is maximum, and the amount of throw might seems excessive to some people (e.g., those who aren't familiar with throw effects). Some people might use the terms "skid," "kick," or "cling" any time the throw is significant, but I think these terms should be used only when the throw is much more than should be expected.

Regards,
Dave

 

[Patrick Johnson]

Players always refer to balls skidding on the diamond tables with new simonis.

I've heard this said once or twice, but not "always". However often it's said, it can't be true - the brand of table can't possibly matter at all and the newness of cloth can't matter much.

Also 3 cushion players talk about using skid to make certain shots and it is said that some shots are not possible without skid.

"Skid" usually refers to the unexpected, exaggerated throw that happens when a spot of chalk is between the balls at contact (as others have said). Since it's unexpected, it can't be part of a plan. These 3C players must be talking about throw.

pj
chgo

 

[Bob Jewett]

Sometimes the term "skid" is used to mean something other than extreme throw. On new cloth, when a stripe rolls directly into a cushion, you can see it keep its forward spin, which is "draw" after it comes off the cushion, and as it turns into normal roll it will slow the ball down. Sometimes people refer to shots like this as "skidding". I think a better term is "sliding" which I think is what most carom players would call it.

On new cloth, there may be a combination of the two effects. When you play nearly full on an object ball with follow, the object ball may get a little draw from the friction during contact. On new, slippery cloth, the effect will last longer and be more visible than on sticky cloth. If you also get skid on such a follow shot, the backspin on the object ball will be very noticeable due to the added presence of slide.

 

[Jude Rosenstock]

I've heard this said once or twice, but not "always". However often it's said, it can't be true - the brand of table can't possibly matter at all and the newness of cloth can't matter much.


"Skid" usually refers to the unexpected, exaggerated throw that happens when a spot of chalk is between the balls at contact (as others have said). Since it's unexpected, it can't be part of a plan. These 3C players must be talking about throw.

pj
chgo

I agree with Patrick here - the brand of table should not have any influence over a skid. With that said, I think there are certain elements that may cause a ball to skid that are common in tournament play and tournaments are often played on Diamonds while poolrooms typically have Brunswicks. That is to say, most players will not play on a Diamond unless they're in a tournament.

I'm fortunate to say that I play on Diamonds every day and have decades of experience on Brunswicks. I see no difference in the two in regards to skids.

Regarding tournament play, I would imagine there are a lot more people using talc than usual and balls are getting cleaned less often. This, combined with the typical amount of dirt balls accummulate from usual play can attribute to an increase in skidding. New cloth also has a bit of fuzz that goes away with routine vacuuming. Perhaps this may have something to do with skids? I'm not sure.

 

[iralee]

Players always refer to balls skidding on the diamond tables with new simonis. Also 3 cushion players talk about using skid to make certain shots and it is said that some shots are not possible without skid.

Are 3 cushion players and pool players talking about the same thing? How do you define skid in both instances?

Thanks,
Marcus

Ball "skid", which results from a high friction contact point between two balls, occurs more frequently during extended playing sessions where the cue ball has not been wiped down for a while.

It's a fairly common event that occurs in all cue sports (snooker=bad kick, carom=butage, pool=skid) as long as chalk is nearby [ from French billiard glossary: http://regis.petit2.perso.sfr.fr/bil_pra.htm ]. The high friction is a result of chalk residue transferred from the tip to the cue ball. The phenomenon should be completely independent of pool table brand - unless something in the design/material of the pockets leaves a high-friction residue on the balls' surfaces.

Most beginner carom players become aware of the butage effect early on - Balkline/Straight-rail players are especially paranoid of butage (as it reaks havoc on subtle touch strokes). Smart pros will ask to polish the balls mid-run (at least every 100 pts) to prevent it. No player likes butages.

While there are known cuing strategies and practices to minimize the distortions somewhat (Raiford sheds some light on this within his detailed study of throw), I have never heard anyone claim to use the unpredictable distortions of skid to their advantage. Whoever says that they can utilize skid reliably either is mixing up terminology or doesn't know what they are talking about.

I will say this, however - that it pays to be sensitive to detect the conditions that "attract" skid. For example, in extremely humid-sticky-dirty table/ball conditions, "skid" occurs more frequently - and certain 3c shot approaches emerge as better choices. I would describe this as adapting one's playing style to a tables' personality than actually using skid to one's advantage.

My opinion is that until the advent of chalk-less tips, skid is a fact of billiard life. Here's a good habit: whenever you are given the rare opportunity to handle the cue ball mid-game (i.e. ball in hand) - keep your sweaty hands away and wipe away the chalk markings that have accumulated upon it.

-Ira

 

[mnorwood]

Hey thanks for all the insightful responses.

Question...

Is it possible that the reduced friction between the object ball and the brand new tightly stretched simonis cloth creates more throw?

 

[Bob Jewett]

Hey thanks for all the insightful responses.

Question...

Is it possible that the reduced friction between the object ball and the brand new tightly stretched simonis cloth creates more throw?

For the cloth to have an effect on throw during the collision, the force at the bottom of the object ball would have to act in a direction to move the object ball in the direction of throw. I do not see any possible mechanism for that. Even if there was motion in the right direction, there seems to be no source of a large enough force to compare to the force between the balls. Unless I slipped a decimal point, the force between the balls during a collision is up to 2000 lbs (or 8000 newtons in metric units) or so. The collision lasts about 1/5000th of a second. The cloth cannot act comparably in such a short time.

 

[mnorwood]

For the cloth to have an effect on throw during the collision, the force at the bottom of the object ball would have to act in a direction to move the object ball in the direction of throw. I do not see any possible mechanism for that. Even if there was motion in the right direction, there seems to be no source of a large enough force to compare to the force between the balls. Unless I slipped a decimal point, the force between the balls during a collision is up to 2000 lbs (or 8000 newtons in metric units) or so. The collision lasts about 1/5000th of a second. The cloth cannot act comparably in such a short time.

Very interesting....Thanks....