The Eyes Have It

boogieman

It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that ping.
hitting the ball "fatter" with spin and throwing it in
takes more "feel"/finesse"but the fatter hit gets you more draw
jmho
icbw
Yep. You can also put side when drawing on a fatter shot to get the angle you need. It can be a deadly combination (for your opponent) when done right. Also it's a good way to learn holdup for games like 1 pocket.
 
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Imac007

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
hitting the ball "fatter" with spin and throwing it in
takes more "feel"/finesse"but the fatter hit gets you more draw
jmho
icbw
The fatter hit is a different kind of resistance, one that the ball can use to get the spin to grab.
A rail does the same, the straighter into the rail the sooner it grabs.
At an angle it slides first just like the ball to ball tangent line dynamic.
 

dquarasr

Registered
I'd like to thank all those who have helped me here. But I think I'm done.

I've practiced at least 5-6 hours per week, and I'm simply not getting any better. Tonight was the final straw. Lost APA 8-ball, 4 racks to 0.

Missed the eight straight in first rack. Missed the eight straight in last rack. I haven't won a match in five weeks. I just can't do this any more.

I think I've found something that helps, and it works for a few hours at the table, then it goes south again.

I fully understand it takes hours and hours and hours and hours and then some more hours. Mark warns in his book: you need to be willing to put in the work. Maybe this game isn't for me.

Regardless of what I ultimately decide, I really do appreciate the help I've been offered and given here.
 

Patrick Johnson

Fish of the Day
Silver Member
hitting the ball "fatter" with spin and throwing it in
takes more "feel"/finesse"but the fatter hit gets you more draw
jmho
icbw
Not sure, but I think you must lose more draw by hitting the CB offcenter than you gain by hitting the OB more full.

pj
chgo
 

evergruven

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I'd like to thank all those who have helped me here. But I think I'm done.

I've practiced at least 5-6 hours per week, and I'm simply not getting any better. Tonight was the final straw. Lost APA 8-ball, 4 racks to 0.

Missed the eight straight in first rack. Missed the eight straight in last rack. I haven't won a match in five weeks. I just can't do this any more.

I think I've found something that helps, and it works for a few hours at the table, then it goes south again.

I fully understand it takes hours and hours and hours and hours and then some more hours. Mark warns in his book: you need to be willing to put in the work. Maybe this game isn't for me.

Regardless of what I ultimately decide, I really do appreciate the help I've been offered and given here.

dang. sorry to hear the pool is so burdensome, especially so, since I can relate ^_^
I started playing "seriously" a few years ago, and am still not where I'd like to be skill-wise
I've definitely improved tho, been plenty frustrated at times, but I've had more fun than frustration
and that's what keeps me going..there is so much to admire and appreciate about the game
but if it's really not fun, trying coming at the game from a different angle (half a pun)
read a book, watch a vid, talk shit on a webforum, whatever- and if the passion is really lost
just take a break. pool will wait for you!! hang in there pal. or, I hear cornhole is pretty popular.. :p
 

dquarasr

Registered
dang. sorry to hear the pool is so burdensome, especially so, since I can relate ^_^
I started playing "seriously" a few years ago, and am still not where I'd like to be skill-wise
I've definitely improved tho, been plenty frustrated at times, but I've had more fun than frustration
and that's what keeps me going..there is so much to admire and appreciate about the game
but if it's really not fun, trying coming at the game from a different angle (half a pun)
read a book, watch a vid, talk shit on a webforum, whatever- and if the passion is really lost
just take a break. pool will wait for you!! hang in there pal. or, I hear cornhole is pretty popular.. :p
Thanks. Maybe I’ll try golf. I hear it’s relaxing and easy to master. Lol
 

BlueRaider

Registered
Thanks. Maybe I’ll try golf. I hear it’s relaxing and easy to master. Lol
People have posted a lot of good advice in this thread, but I think at this point you're dealing with extreme frustration + paralysis by analysis. You've stopped playing pool and instead are forcing your body to execute a perfect pool stroke, which you will never achieve. You've lost all feel to your game.

Take some time off, and if (when) you come back, focus on one thing initially: locking your eyes/chin on the shot line when you stand behind the cue ball, and keeping your eyes/chin on the shot line as you get down into your stance.

This video from Jerry Briesath helped me more than any other instructional video on mechanics/fundamentals:


I found that so many "errors" in my stance and setup were related to my eyes and head not being in the right place. Once I stopped worrying about the exact placement of my feet and instead worried only about the exact placement of my eyes, my game improved. And I suspect that everything else (foot placement, elbow position, grip, etc.) started falling into place naturally.
 

chefjeff

Nazis are back.
Silver Member
It's crossed my mind. I definitely will take a break from pool, playing league only if the team is stuck and needs a body.

It's a really tough game, perhaps one of the toughest of all. That's it's ugliness but also its beauty.

But it doesn't have to be played at high levels to have fun and get value out of it.

I figured out long ago that if I just play the best I can, that's all I am responsible for; the results take care of their own.

fwiw,


Jeff Livingston
 

Bob Jewett

AZB Osmium Member
Staff member
Gold Member
Silver Member
I'd like to thank all those who have helped me here. But I think I'm done.
I looked over the whole thread here, and I didn't see anywhere that you had someone look at your fundamentals/mechanics. Have you looked at yourself on video? Do you know what to look for?
 

dquarasr

Registered
I looked over the whole thread here, and I didn't see anywhere that you had someone look at your fundamentals/mechanics. Have you looked at yourself on video? Do you know what to look for?
I like to think I do. :) Yes, I've recorded myself. I eliminated a tendency to have my elbow move out during my stroke. I've minimized elbow drop (although I've left a little bit, what I consider acceptable). I have verified I am stroking straight and lining up.

I suppose I could use some critique on head position but again, I've tried very square, cue centered under my nose; cue under my vision center (just left of the bridge of my nose); cue centered under my dominant left eye; head somewhat canted to facilitate having the cue more easily near my vision center (I broke my neck in 2010).

Nothing has worked consistently for potting balls.

Oh, and I can miss them both left and right, and I rarely use anything but center ball, so I'm pretty sure misses are not caused by CIT, or SIT, or squirt/swerve.

I obviously need a coach. But I've been quoted some rather hefty fees from highly effective and accomplished instructors here. I'm not sure I want to invest that much $ in getting better (take that for what it says). I've been trying to arrange some casual settings with some better players locally, who volunteer doing clinics. So far haven't been able to hook up with any.
 

Bob Jewett

AZB Osmium Member
Staff member
Gold Member
Silver Member
... I obviously need a coach. But I've been quoted some rather hefty fees from highly effective and accomplished instructors here. ...
You can get a competent instructor to video record you and give you ways to improve your weak points for under $100 for a two-hour session. That should be more than long enough to do the evaluation and figure out recommendations that might work for you. That is cheap compared to how much effort you have already put into your game without guidance.

Whether there is an instructor near you that wouldn't require travel from one of you is another matter. If you travel for other reasons, that opens up other possible options.
 

dquarasr

Registered
I found that so many "errors" in my stance and setup were related to my eyes and head not being in the right place. Once I stopped worrying about the exact placement of my feet and instead worried only about the exact placement of my eyes, my game improved. And I suspect that everything else (foot placement, elbow position, grip, etc.) started falling into place naturally.
I am very confident I fully understand the point of impact Jerry describes in the video you recommended. I’ve been *all over that* in the last year. But the video did indeed remind/reconfirm what I suspect is going on with me: inconsistent placement of my head over the shot, mostly because of me having broken my neck in 2010, and my left eye dominance/right had shooter and the discomfort I feel when I have to get over the shot aligning my head thusly. I find I slowly start looking at the shot with my head slightly pointed right because of the limitations of my limberness to be square over the shot.

That said, this is one of the things I have worked on in the last year and I found that even when I am ensuring my head and chin are square to the shot line, I still experience inconsistency I described above. I’m sure a coach can verify this and suggest ways to remedy….
 

BlueRaider

Registered
I am very confident I fully understand the point of impact Jerry describes in the video you recommended. I’ve been *all over that* in the last year. But the video did indeed remind/reconfirm what I suspect is going on with me: inconsistent placement of my head over the shot, mostly because of me having broken my neck in 2010, and my left eye dominance/right had shooter and the discomfort I feel when I have to get over the shot aligning my head thusly. I find I slowly start looking at the shot with my head slightly pointed right because of the limitations of my limberness to be square over the shot.

That said, this is one of the things I have worked on in the last year and I found that even when I am ensuring my head and chin are square to the shot line, I still experience inconsistency I described above. I’m sure a coach can verify this and suggest ways to remedy….
I'm also cross-dominant (left-handed, right-eyed). What helps me is to focus on seeing the shot with my right eye while I'm standing, then locking my chin/eyes in that position. It takes some getting used to. I don't really even turn my head to accomplish this. I just make sure that I'm involving my right eye as much as possible when standing behind the cue ball and sizing up the shot line.

I agree that an instructor will be helpful. But I would be wary of a complete breakdown and rebuild of your mechanics, unless they are completely horrible (subjective, I know). That will introduce a lot of frustration and take a lot of fun out of the game unless you're prepared to really rebuild things. I went through a similar process around 4 years ago, and ultimately, the biggest change for me was simply learning to allow my arm/elbow to relax to fix a chicken wing. My instructor wanted me to completely rebuild my stance, but I couldn't make it work. But I did improve hugely because I became aware of how crooked my elbow was.

Good luck, and don't give up. You will figure this out, and it will be the biggest light bulb moment you've had playing pool and 100% worth all the trial and error and frustration.
 
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