The Fight to Save Ping Pong...lots in common with pool

bdorman

Dead money
Silver Member
From the Wall Street Journal Website
Seems that Ping-pong shares a lot in common with Pool...including Barry Hearn organizing a World Championship
Interesting that in order to make the game more spectator-friendly they want to slow it down.

The Fight to Save Ping Pong
Some Players Are Trying to Add to the Game's Excitement by Going With Paddles Designed for Power Rather Than Spin

By FREDERICK DREIER

Every sport has its seminal, game-changing moment, when new techniques or technology brings about a revolution in play.

For ping pong, that moment came in 1952.

Rec room historians love to tell the tale of Marty Reisman, the skinny Jewish kid from Manhattan's Lower East Side who entered that year's Table Tennis World Championships in Bombay as the front-runner. Standing in Reisman's way was the little-known Japanese player Hiroji Satoh, who used an unorthodox paddle fashioned with spongy rubber on each side. Unlike the hard, sandpaper-sided paddles of the day, the sponge allowed Satoh to manipulate the ball with vicious spins, flummoxing his opponents. With his competitive advantage, Satoh handily beat Reisman en route to the world title.

Sponge quickly replaced sandpaper paddles on the international circuit. Asian players came to dominate, and the sport evolved into its modern era, where spin decides the outcome.

Reisman refused to evolve. His flamboyant style and hustler persona made him America's foremost ping pong personality, and he used his celebrity to promote "hardbat" competitions, which outlawed sponge paddles in favor of old-school sandpaper. Until his death in December at age 82, Reisman would tell anyone within earshot why sandpaper was superior to sponge.

"If you got Marty started on hardbat versus sponge, he'd talk to you all night, maybe until 2 a.m.," said Dean Johnson, Reisman's longtime friend and member of the Table Tennis Hall of Fame. "That was his life. He really hated sponge."

Reisman's arguments against sponge and spin have become the battle cry of table tennis purists. Excessive spin, they say, shortens rallies and puts too much emphasis on a player's wrist movement, not his foot speed and lateral reach. The shortened rallies make the game boring to watch. And sponge rackets can cost in excess of $300.

"It's hard to keep the ball on the table with sponge," said Tahl Leibovitz, a member of the U.S. Paralympic team. "Sponge is a more complex game because deception is part of it."

In the months since Reisman's death, his hardbat movement has gained steam in ping pong bars and professional table-tennis halls across the world. This past January, veteran English sports promoter Barry Hearn organized the World Championships of Ping Pong at the Alexandra Palace in London. The stock-car style tournament forced players to use sandpaper paddles.

Hearn, who has helped snooker, fishing and darts become mainstream televised sports in Great Britain, got the idea after meeting Reisman in 2009. Hearn saw images of Reisman playing at the Garden in the early 1950s in front of 20,000 fans and saw potential.

"For once in my life, I looked backward rather than forward in history, and I found out that current table tennis had no television appeal," Hearn said. "The rallies are too short. It lacks athleticism. It's just not big enough."

Hearn filled Alexandra Palace with booming rock music for the competition, and he made sure the beer stands were always pouring. He wooed top players with a $100,000 prize purse—10 times greater than Table Tennis's U.S. Open pays its winner. The two-day tournament attracted several thousand spectators and a million television viewers on Sky Sports.

"Guys would make these amazing shots from 15 feet past the table and just smash it into the corner," Hearn said. "The rallies went on and on. The crowd would go crazy."

In New York City, Reisman's vision has continued at a more grass roots level. In 2007 he founded the company Table Tennis Nation alongside former elite player and entrepreneur Tony Ettinger to produce simple sandpaper paddles for mass distribution.

The group now manufactures sandpaper paddles that are designed to make the game easier for novice players. The face of the sandpaper paddle is 25% bigger than that of a competition-grade sponge paddle. Layered wood and a carbon-fiber interior also create a bigger "sweet spot." It costs just $30, and players can customize designs on the paddle's face.

Ettinger claims the paddle also neutralizes spin from sponge paddles.

"A $300 sponge paddle tries to shorten the rallies," Ettinger said. "Our paddle is designed to make it easier to return the ball."

Table Tennis Nation promotes hardbat play at bars and restaurants around the city, and the upscale table-tennis club SPIN, with amateur tournaments it calls Slams. It also holds regular competitions at the headquarters of various tech startups, where ping pong tables have become regular office furniture.

The company's paddle, however, won't be seen at international tournament soon. The International Table Tennis Federation bans sandpaper paddles, requiring all players to use sponge.

Dr. Michael Babuin, chairman of USA Table Tennis, said the ITTF has no motivation to promote cheap sandpaper paddles, when the technology used in sponge paddles continues to drive the sport forward.

"They are not in the business of promoting sandpaper bats, they are in the business of promoting higher-dollar bats," Babuin said.

But Babuin believes the hardbat competitions could help bring more recreational participants further into the sport. A statistic often repeated by table tennis aficionados holds that 20 million Americans play recreational table tennis each year. USA Table Tennis, by contrast, has a membership of 9,000.

"We need to develop a grass-roots level," Babuin said. "In my opinion, there is no better way to bring people into the sport than with a sandpaper paddle."

Sandpaper's defeat by sponge frustrated Reisman for decades, said Johnson, who is writing a book on the history of American table tennis from 1931-1966. The chapter on Reisman contains numerous photos of the table tennis hero alongside various celebrities, always dressed in flashy styles, dark glasses and a fedora.

The book also contains a photo of a then 22-year-old Reisman, just before his famous match with Satoh in 1952. In the final years of his life, Johnson said, Reisman began to view his defeat by Satoh as a positive chapter in his life.

"It tickled him because so many people talked about what a tragedy it was that he lost in 1952," Johnson said. "But if he'd won, maybe he'd just be some other world champion."
 
I noticed in some photographs of Amsterdam Billiards several of the tables had conversion tops on them for table tennis. Does it have that much of a following?
 
I noticed in some photographs of Amsterdam Billiards several of the tables had conversion tops on them for table tennis. Does it have that much of a following?

It became an Olympic sport in 1988. So there must be a big following in Asia and Europe.
 
Ping Pong

From the Wall Street Journal Website
Seems that Ping-pong shares a lot in common with Pool...including Barry Hearn organizing a World Championship
Interesting that in order to make the game more spectator-friendly they want to slow it down.

The Fight to Save Ping Pong
Some Players Are Trying to Add to the Game's Excitement by Going With Paddles Designed for Power Rather Than Spin

By FREDERICK DREIER

Every sport has its seminal, game-changing moment, when new techniques or technology brings about a revolution in play.

For ping pong, that moment came in 1952.

Rec room historians love to tell the tale of Marty Reisman, the skinny Jewish kid from Manhattan's Lower East Side who entered that year's Table Tennis World Championships in Bombay as the front-runner. Standing in Reisman's way was the little-known Japanese player Hiroji Satoh, who used an unorthodox paddle fashioned with spongy rubber on each side. Unlike the hard, sandpaper-sided paddles of the day, the sponge allowed Satoh to manipulate the ball with vicious spins, flummoxing his opponents. With his competitive advantage, Satoh handily beat Reisman en route to the world title.

Sponge quickly replaced sandpaper paddles on the international circuit. Asian players came to dominate, and the sport evolved into its modern era, where spin decides the outcome.

Reisman refused to evolve. His flamboyant style and hustler persona made him America's foremost ping pong personality, and he used his celebrity to promote "hardbat" competitions, which outlawed sponge paddles in favor of old-school sandpaper. Until his death in December at age 82, Reisman would tell anyone within earshot why sandpaper was superior to sponge.

"If you got Marty started on hardbat versus sponge, he'd talk to you all night, maybe until 2 a.m.," said Dean Johnson, Reisman's longtime friend and member of the Table Tennis Hall of Fame. "That was his life. He really hated sponge."

Reisman's arguments against sponge and spin have become the battle cry of table tennis purists. Excessive spin, they say, shortens rallies and puts too much emphasis on a player's wrist movement, not his foot speed and lateral reach. The shortened rallies make the game boring to watch. And sponge rackets can cost in excess of $300.

"It's hard to keep the ball on the table with sponge," said Tahl Leibovitz, a member of the U.S. Paralympic team. "Sponge is a more complex game because deception is part of it."

In the months since Reisman's death, his hardbat movement has gained steam in ping pong bars and professional table-tennis halls across the world. This past January, veteran English sports promoter Barry Hearn organized the World Championships of Ping Pong at the Alexandra Palace in London. The stock-car style tournament forced players to use sandpaper paddles.

Hearn, who has helped snooker, fishing and darts become mainstream televised sports in Great Britain, got the idea after meeting Reisman in 2009. Hearn saw images of Reisman playing at the Garden in the early 1950s in front of 20,000 fans and saw potential.

"For once in my life, I looked backward rather than forward in history, and I found out that current table tennis had no television appeal," Hearn said. "The rallies are too short. It lacks athleticism. It's just not big enough."

Hearn filled Alexandra Palace with booming rock music for the competition, and he made sure the beer stands were always pouring. He wooed top players with a $100,000 prize purse—10 times greater than Table Tennis's U.S. Open pays its winner. The two-day tournament attracted several thousand spectators and a million television viewers on Sky Sports.

"Guys would make these amazing shots from 15 feet past the table and just smash it into the corner," Hearn said. "The rallies went on and on. The crowd would go crazy."

In New York City, Reisman's vision has continued at a more grass roots level. In 2007 he founded the company Table Tennis Nation alongside former elite player and entrepreneur Tony Ettinger to produce simple sandpaper paddles for mass distribution.

The group now manufactures sandpaper paddles that are designed to make the game easier for novice players. The face of the sandpaper paddle is 25% bigger than that of a competition-grade sponge paddle. Layered wood and a carbon-fiber interior also create a bigger "sweet spot." It costs just $30, and players can customize designs on the paddle's face.

Ettinger claims the paddle also neutralizes spin from sponge paddles.

"A $300 sponge paddle tries to shorten the rallies," Ettinger said. "Our paddle is designed to make it easier to return the ball."

Table Tennis Nation promotes hardbat play at bars and restaurants around the city, and the upscale table-tennis club SPIN, with amateur tournaments it calls Slams. It also holds regular competitions at the headquarters of various tech startups, where ping pong tables have become regular office furniture.

The company's paddle, however, won't be seen at international tournament soon. The International Table Tennis Federation bans sandpaper paddles, requiring all players to use sponge.

Dr. Michael Babuin, chairman of USA Table Tennis, said the ITTF has no motivation to promote cheap sandpaper paddles, when the technology used in sponge paddles continues to drive the sport forward.

"They are not in the business of promoting sandpaper bats, they are in the business of promoting higher-dollar bats," Babuin said.

But Babuin believes the hardbat competitions could help bring more recreational participants further into the sport. A statistic often repeated by table tennis aficionados holds that 20 million Americans play recreational table tennis each year. USA Table Tennis, by contrast, has a membership of 9,000.

"We need to develop a grass-roots level," Babuin said. "In my opinion, there is no better way to bring people into the sport than with a sandpaper paddle."

Sandpaper's defeat by sponge frustrated Reisman for decades, said Johnson, who is writing a book on the history of American table tennis from 1931-1966. The chapter on Reisman contains numerous photos of the table tennis hero alongside various celebrities, always dressed in flashy styles, dark glasses and a fedora.

The book also contains a photo of a then 22-year-old Reisman, just before his famous match with Satoh in 1952. In the final years of his life, Johnson said, Reisman began to view his defeat by Satoh as a positive chapter in his life.

"It tickled him because so many people talked about what a tragedy it was that he lost in 1952," Johnson said. "But if he'd won, maybe he'd just be some other world champion."

Who is Ping Pong? Is he/she an up and coming pool player?

Is he/she in some trouble? Or maybe needs a transplant of some kind.

More info on this player would help.

Don :thumbup:
 
From the Wall Street Journal Website
Seems that Ping-pong shares a lot in common with Pool...including Barry Hearn organizing a World Championship..."

I would likely more compare Ping-Pong to say... Bad-Mitten. After all, just how many different types of games can be played on a Ping-Pong table? Also (just like B-M) P-P (even though a faster paced game) is not an exactly accurate challenge compared to Billiards. In P-P, If you're 1/2" off your target and the ball still hits the table then you didn't miss the shot. I wouldn't want to shoot on any pool table that I could make that same comment about... although I've played on a few tables that were like reading the breaks on a putting green.

But organizing a "World" Championship for Ping-Pong... so just how many "APPA" (American Ping-Pong Players Association) leagues are forming around the US lately? Personally, I don't shoot APA... but look at how many people are doing it. Also go on eBay and look at all of the bids on high-end cues... then search "Ping Pong Paddle"... LOL. The highest priced paddle that I found that actually sold was $317.00 and that was a vintage rare German paddle. Most people here on AZB (as well as myself) probably don't have many (if any) cues worth less than $400 and $500-$1200 is not uncommon for single cues around here (AZB) at all.
Ping-Pong is fun to watch (and play) and the pace is incredible at a championship level, but it's rather repetitive at best and (at least for me) gets old after an hour or so. Try to watch a match and ask yourself (before the shot) how would I play that shot?

OH YEA... I've (personally) never heard of a single American Ping-Pong champion (other than Forest Gump)... But I've lost count of how many excellent Asian billiard players have emerged over the last decade or so.

I guess that's why this is AZB and not AZPP.
 
Kind of interesting... they changed the game radically 60 years ago and he's trying to change it back to add excitement. Not unlike banning jumps and going to ten foot tables in pool, except pool will never be as fun to watch. And nobody wants to pony up 100k.
 
I am intrigued by the "I have zero knowledge, but strong opinions" crowd.

Table tennis and badminton are both VERY fast paced, athletic, Olympic sports. Both have national and world championships as well as national and international governing bodies.

Check out some of the Table Tennis videos at the ITTF site LINK. There are lots of badminton videos available on YouTube.

Pool is a great, and very, VERY tough game, but isn't even remotely close to badminton or table tennis from an athleticism point of view. Trying to hit a little ball that is travelling 60mph and spinning at 8000rpm onto the table - where your opponent can't reach it - is pretty tough.

bes
 
FWIW, Christopher Walken was in both Balls of Fury and Poolhall Junkies. You can draw your own conclusions. :-)
 
state of pool today

my buddy has 4 pool tables in his bar in mid missouri, he just put a ping pong top on one of his tables.
 
I am intrigued by the "I have zero knowledge, but strong opinions" crowd.

Table tennis and badminton are both VERY fast paced, athletic, Olympic sports. Both have national and world championships as well as national and international governing bodies.

Check out some of the Table Tennis videos at the ITTF site LINK. There are lots of badminton videos available on YouTube.

Pool is a great, and very, VERY tough game, but isn't even remotely close to badminton or table tennis from an athleticism point of view. Trying to hit a little ball that is travelling 60mph and spinning at 8000rpm onto the table - where your opponent can't reach it - is pretty tough.

bes

Somehow I get the feeling that the above was addressed at my comment. If so then maybe you should re-read what I wrote and how it was written. The summation was mostly how Billiards is in a totally different class of sport than PP & BM and not nearly as popular in the US as Billiards (thus, why compare PP to Billiards?). I never said that Ping Pong isn't tough (and exhausting). I've played my share of HARDCORE PP and BM games and was once quit good at both, even though I would be accused here perhaps of having "zero knowledge" of the sport. I do believe that my quoted words read... "Ping-Pong is fun to watch (and play) and the pace is incredible at a championship level, but it's rather repetitive at best and (at least for me) gets old after an hour or so."

"incredible at a championship level"... "repetitive... (AT LEAST TO ME)".
Look, I'm not going to go on dissecting everything that I said here to justify myself... if you want to get offended and take me out of context then you will find a reason to do so. And just why do you think that I included Badminton equal to a game that I referred to as (again) "incredible at a championship level". I've obviously watched (and played) the real matches (not the backyard playtime stuff).

My point (which I thought was obvious) was that on a WORLDWIDE standpoint I don't believe the two should be compared, as they are vastly different types of games and that I also believe that Billiards in the US (at this point in time) far outweighs the popularity of Ping Pong. I was very clear that these were just MY OPINIONS but since they disagree with yours, you seem to think that your opinion is gold and that (how did you state that again?)... "I have zero knowledge". I realize the physical strengths and agility required in both PP and BM and that they are Olympic sports. But that had nothing to do with my subject matter. (and I would never suggest that Billiards should become an Olympic sport).
Why you chose to take a simple morning comment and make it so personal, turning it into something falsely defaming, I don't know. Personally I try not to attack someone's thread comments, unless they are attacking mine first.

I'm not trying to start a flame war on this thread. But (as I said) this is AZB.. not AZPP.
 
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