The Final Word on Tight Pockets at WPC

[sjm]

Prior to the onset of the WPC, I expressed grave concern that the fact that American pro events are contested on such loose equipment would hurt the chances of the American contingent. This would have concerned me even if the WPC were contested on loose equipment, but when I learned tight equipment would be in use my concern grew even more. Now that the curtain has closed on the WPC for all but two magnficent players from Taiwan, it seems a good time to reflect on whether the American contingent was or wasn't hurt by the fact that the don't compete on tough equipment on the UPA, the qualifying tour for the WPC.

It is my considered opinion that America HAS PAID A PRICE for conducting its top pro events on loose equipment, and that price is that we are no longer the best ball pocketers in the world. Some of our top pros practice almost exclusively on tight equipment, but there's no substitute for competing on tight pockets.

Some of our pros, Grady Matthews in particular, have posted about how ridiculous these tournaments played on loose equipment really are, but until the governing organizations of American pool see the light, we're not on the road back to true prominence on the world stage. Without a switch to tougher equipment, I believe the pedigree of American pool will remain in decline.

We've had only one of the last eight in each of the last three WPC events and not a single finalist. Will we Americans make excuses or will we make the fixes that will give our best a greater chance to succeed? I hope it's the latter.

I'd like to hear from others on this. Has loose pocket competition reduced the pedigree of the elite American pool players or not?

 

[Snapshot9]

It's like ...

Taking a player that plays $100 sets, and putting him in a $1,000 set.
It shows up at 'critical' times. The $100 player will miss at a critical time,
or make a mistake that will inevitably cost him the match.

At that level of play in WPC, 1 mistake can cost the whole match, and so,
my answer to your question is 'YES', loose pockets or inconsistent sized
pockets between professional USA tournaments has cost American players
on the International playing field of competition.

And that could have been the reason Rodney missed those 3 shots, with
one of the shots that could have put him up 5-2 and perhaps have
changed the outcome of the match since he would have been breaking
the next rack instead of Kuo, and it might have affected Kuo mentally too.

 

[cheemagun]

I agree with sjm.. it has hurt the american competitors as evident in the rodney morris match. he missed a lot of shots that these guys should make.. specially when he plays fast like that he lets out the most natural stroke for himself and his shots show that he has been playing on loose pockets instead of tight pockets. but for these top pros it wont take them long to get adjusted to a tight pocket table, but then again even if they did adjust it dont matter because the taiwanese play on it all day everyday. you cant adjust up to that level just playing on it for one tournament. but on the other hand when the taiwanese play on the looser ones they probably get fustrated when they see a player with a bit less pocketing skills titting the balls in. these recent world tournaments has had so many taiwanese players playing world class pool. and this year with the tights they have two in the finals.

 

[Boro Nut]

..and that price is that we are no longer the best ball pocketers in the world.

It's worse than that even. They never were, at any point in time, ever. Nor are they ever likely to be. Apart from that it's hard to disagree with you.

Boro Nut

 

[juegabillar]

Tight pockets got the nod of players, so.....

Prior to the onset of the WPC, I expressed grave concern that the fact that American pro events are contested on such loose equipment would hurt the chances of the American contingent. This would have concerned me even if the WPC were contested on loose equipment, but when I learned tight equipment would be in use my concern grew even more. Now that the curtain has closed on the WPC for all but two magnficent players from Taiwan, it seems a good time to reflect on whether the American contingent was or wasn't hurt by the fact that the don't compete on tough equipment on the UPA, the qualifying tour for the WPC.

It is my considered opinion that America HAS PAID A PRICE for conducting its top pro events on loose equipment, and that price is that we are no longer the best ball pocketers in the world. Some of our top pros practice almost exclusively on tight equipment, but there's no substitute for competing on tight pockets.

Some of our pros, Grady Matthews in particular, have posted about how ridiculous these tournaments played on loose equipment really are, but until the governing organizations of American pool see the light, we're not on the road back to true prominence on the world stage. Without a switch to tougher equipment, I believe the pedigree of American pool will remain in decline.

We've had only one of the last eight in each of the last three WPC events and not a single finalist. Will we Americans make excuses or will we make the fixes that will give our best a greater chance to succeed? I hope it's the latter.

I'd like to hear from others on this. Has loose pocket competition reduced the pedigree of the elite American pool players or not?

Tight pockets got the nod of players. This article is at the WPC website and has comments made by Johnny Archer:

ONE of the more popular aspects of this year’s World Pool Championship in Kaohsiung is the narrowing of the pockets from previous years.

Last year, the pockets were much wider and coupled with a shallower shelf and new cloth, made the tables play fairly easy with a wing ball falling on most break shots.

Corner pockets on all tables in use the tournament in 2005 have been tightened up considerably and the result is tougher tables that will favour the more accurate potter and positional player.

WPA Sports Director Thomas Overbeck, who oversees the rules and technical aspects at the championship is pleased with the change: “It makes the game more precise and concentrated and favours the better players to win. Bigger pockets allow the lesser player to win as there is no onus on accuracy.”

The corner pockets are now 4.25 inches (10.8 cm) at the mouth with shelf considerably deeper than last time, making it harder for a jawed ball to drop.

“This is the best thing that’s happened here in a long time, said top American player Johnny Archer. “This will make the tournament favour the stronger players and I’m happy about that!”

 

[Celtic]

As much as I wanted to see Rodney shoot well and win he chopped it up bad, he made some good safeties but in all honesty the amount of relatively simple shots he missed was ludicrous for a top pro, he looks very much like a player that would excel on loose tables with that massive break and flowing style but he was nowhere near accurate enough in that match. Kuo had one game where he missed 2 shots, other then that I dont think he missed a pot he went for in the entire match. Rodney missed in multiple games. Also watch the pots Rodney makes compared to Kuo, Rodney is rattleing the balls in while Kuo is splitting the heart, and that is not cheating the pocket to get better shape, that is just the fact that Rodney is not nearly as accurate.

 

[Krypto]

It Aint the Pockets Guys

I have another theory guys. When is the last time you flew to the other side of the world? It has been a while for me, but I remember feeling like #$%% for about a week. It really hits hard after about three days. Combine this massive Jet Lag with a lot of strange food, strange water, and high stress, and you have a #$%% load of problems concentrating on your game. I know that the American players are not the only ones that travelled a long way, but they and the Canadians probably travelled the longest distance. The Asian foods, lifestyle, and HEAT is also a factor in an American player adjusting. As for me, I still believe our guys are the best in the world. Let them bring their best to LA, Atlanta, or New York, and I'll put my dollars on Deul, Archer, Strickland, Morris, or one of several other top U.S. players. No, we don't dominate the world, nor should we. This is not U.S. Football. This is a game that many players of many nationalities have mastered. This week, the home team had their way. That's just fine. We'll be back. Maybe the time is right for a Mosconi Cup knock-off with an Asian / Filipino Team. Wait a minute, how about that Olympic thing???

 

[Warren]

We've had only one of the last eight in each of the last three WPC events and not a single finalist. Will we Americans make excuses or will we make the fixes that will give our best a greater chance to succeed? I hope it's the latter.

I'd like to hear from others on this. Has loose pocket competition reduced the pedigree of the elite American pool players or not?

this is kind of a glass half full/empty kind of thing! how many nations can say they put at least one person in the last 8 in the last 3 competitions? only a very few i'm sure (too tired to look it up). not only that, in two of those years we had a semifinalist, and it was only 3 years ago Strickland brought home the championship. in fact, only one time since the world pool championship began in 1990 has the USA failed to place at least one player in the final eight. that's pretty impressive if you ask me.

i think krypto had it right. and all the better if the rest of the world is producing championship caliber players.

if anything, i think american pool pro's (and foreigners who compete here)tend to be chameleons when it comes to adapting to equipment and conditions, since there is so much variation. i think matchroom made the right move and i am not too worried about the american pros!

warren..

 

[sjm]

I have another theory guys. When is the last time you flew to the other side of the world? It has been a while for me, but I remember feeling like #$%% for about a week. It really hits hard after about three days. Combine this massive Jet Lag with a lot of strange food, strange water, and high stress, and you have a #$%% load of problems concentrating on your game. I know that the American players are not the only ones that travelled a long way, but they and the Canadians probably travelled the longest distance. The Asian foods, lifestyle, and HEAT is also a factor in an American player adjusting. As for me, I still believe our guys are the best in the world. Let them bring their best to LA, Atlanta, or New York, and I'll put my dollars on Deul, Archer, Strickland, Morris, or one of several other top U.S. players.

Most of the Europeans traveled 10,000 miles to the WPC, and had to endure the food and the heat to which they were surely unacustomed. How did they do? Brilliantly! Vandenberg, Hohmann, and Immonen were all among the last eight and Europe had ten of the last thirt two left. Forget about this home court advantage nonsense. Top players are able to win on the road.

 

[lewdo26]

Aside from the poster of this thread and a couple of others, I hear a lot of lukewarm, cozy excuses for a painfully obvious reality: Americans are lagging behind on the green felt.

Another issue that has been mentioned by Celtic several times on this forum is the fact that Johnny Archer and Rodney Morris won't last forever. Has the U.S. produced the kind of young (read teenager) talent that can stand up to Wu and others? The answer is also painfully obvious.

My problem with the brand of patriotism I've seen a lot of on this forum is that it is based on denial and wishful thinking. Whereas I too was behind Rodney, I also noticed he wasn't playing his best and was surprised to see him coming this far. I also noticed the fact that the newer American names, like Charlie Bryant and Danny Basavich, didn't have a prayer.

My opinion, I think, has to be given less weight than that of other more knowledgeable forum members who will surely post on this thread. But here it is: I do not see HOW the big pockets could do ANYTHING but compromise the level of American pool. But I'd go further: We have to remeber why the big pockets are there in the first place. And that is because of the pool-as-circus mentality that assumes that the lay public "does not want to see pros miss" or "wants to see some offense" or "wants to see the guy get up and run 4-5 racks."

That mentality is killing american pool and STILL has failed to bring in money for our top players. And by the way, the tightER pockets this year have still not kept Manalo, Wu, or Kwo from producing offensive brilliancy and stringing racks together. For them and their Taiwanese fans pool is not some QUICK-AND-EASY form of entertainment. It is a DIFFICULT sport, which deserves respect all the more for being so.


True patriotism has nothing to do with denial and head-in-the-clouds wishfulness. True patriotism gets up and does what is necessary to bring the home team the advantage.

 

[vagabond]

It is my considered opinion that America HAS PAID A PRICE for conducting its top pro events on loose equipment, and that price is that we are no longer the best ball pocketers in the world. Some of our top pros practice almost exclusively on tight equipment, but there's no substitute for competing on tight pockets.

Hi SJM,
Don`t worry, we will be ordering our Marines to march to WPA`s office to force our will on them and get the rules changed .Next World championships will be on loose pockets and we can dominate the world pool again.LOL
Vagabond

 

[sjm]

With tight pockets at the WPC, with very few exceptions, we haven't seen anyone monopolizing control of the table. The three pack is very special again, and we all knew how impressive it was when Kuo hit Morris with three break and runs in a row to go from 7 - 6 down to 9 - 7 ahead to take control of that semifinal match.

Who in the hell needs alternate break when it's this tough to monopolize control of the table? Winner breaks is how this game is meant to be played, but the loose pockets in America have brought us the break box and alternate break, two corrections that simply aren't necessary if equipment befitting world class professionals is in use.

Nice to see the game being played the way it should be again. Those who have produced this world championships should be very proud and I commend them.

 

[sjm]

Hi SJM,
Don`t worry, we will be ordering our Marines to march to WPA`s office to force our will on them and get the rules changed .Next World championships will be on loose pockets and we can dominate the world pool again.LOL
Vagabond

Thanks for a good laugh, Vagabond.

 

[juegabillar]

I know that the American players are not the only ones that travelled a long way, but they and the Canadians probably travelled the longest distance.

Krypto, the South Americans (Gustavo Espinoza from Argentina and Enrique Rojas from Chile) were the ones that travelled the longest to Kaohsiung.

 

[SplicedPoints]

I know how the players can get used to the hot conditions and the local foods. If the WPC will be held in Taiwan again, spend the month before the tournament wearing a winter coat in June, and eat real chinese food for a month (none of the lemon chicken stuff). THat'll get them climatized even before heading there.

Seriously though. The level of play worldwide has improved so much in the last 10 years that the US can no longer expect to dominate the sport like before. Rodney played pretty well and his finish is nothing to laugh at. Duel played better this year than the last 2 years I think. Stricland and Archer hit some taugh opponents shooting well. The only player I can think of doing badly is Charlie Williams.

 

[sjm]

...I also noticed the fact that the newer American names, like Charlie Bryant and Danny Basavich, didn't have a prayer....

Loved your post, Lewdo, but can't let this go. Charlie Bryant took Marlon Manalo to double hill in the knockout stage, and is deserving of some praise for his play.

 

[monski]

The good players also were able to sting racks together. The final example of which is Wu who needed to string racks to win the championship.

 

[lewdo26]

Loved your post, Lewdo, but can't let this go. Charlie Bryant took Marlon Manalo to double hill in the knockout stage, and is deserving of some praise for his play.

I stand corrected, sjm. Going double hill with Manalo is indeed a great achievement at any level.

I also think Charlie and Shawn Putnam still have room to grow. I'll be following their careers closely and would love to see them at the WPC again.

 

[lewdo26]

I stand corrected, sjm. Going double hill with Manalo is indeed a great achievement at any level.

I also think Charlie and Shawn Putnam still have room to grow. I'll be following their careers closely and would love to see them at the WPC again.

BTW, would also like to see John Schmidt play the WPC again. He's downright one of my favorite american players to watch.

 

[sniper]

I have another theory guys. When is the last time you flew to the other side of the world? It has been a while for me, but I remember feeling like #$%% for about a week. It really hits hard after about three days. Combine this massive Jet Lag with a lot of strange food, strange water, and high stress, and you have a #$%% load of problems concentrating on your game. I know that the American players are not the only ones that travelled a long way, but they and the Canadians probably travelled the longest distance. The Asian foods, lifestyle, and HEAT is also a factor in an American player adjusting. As for me, I still believe our guys are the best in the world. Let them bring their best to LA, Atlanta, or New York, and I'll put my dollars on Deul, Archer, Strickland, Morris, or one of several other top U.S. players.

This is what everyone is talking about when they say were making excuses for a mediocre performance at WPC, this includes the Canadian players that made the trip over BTW. sjm pointed out that the European players had to make the same long trip over that we did and they had an impressive performance. I guess I should also point out that the Euro-tour is played on the same equipment as the WPC, so that would make us the only ones playing on tables with five inch pockets. I have no doubt our performances would be better if we started playing all our tournaments on diamond tables or any kind of tighter equipment. We had a bad showing but let's not make excuses about jetlag and other changes in conditions that others had to endure as well.