The Floor is Open... But, Banger need not apply

This is just an idea and may have nothing to do with your issues, but it just might. Have you considered you may be getting a little burnt out. It doesn't necessarily have to be physical in nature, it could be mental in nature - as in your trying too hard or what not.

I know this has happened to !e in the past. I've found taking a good long break helps me become motivated again. When i come back I feel almost a sense of rejuvenation, and every single time I've stopped playing for a period of time I've found that after getting back in stroke my speed has actually improved as well. Not sure what causes this but I believe it is mental in nature.

I don't think it really needs to be a very long break, maybe even a couple weeks or a month may work. If you do try this don't hit one ball, don't even go to the pool room. Good Luck
 
BmoreMoney said:
This is just an idea and may have nothing to do with your issues, but it just might. Have you considered you may be getting a little burnt out. It doesn't necessarily have to be physical in nature, it could be mental in nature - as in your trying too hard or what not.

I know this has happened to !e in the past. I've found taking a good long break helps me become motivated again. When i come back I feel almost a sense of rejuvenation, and every single time I've stopped playing for a period of time I've found that after getting back in stroke my speed has actually improved as well. Not sure what causes this but I believe it is mental in nature.

I don't think it really needs to be a very long break, maybe even a couple weeks or a month may work. If you do try this don't hit one ball, don't even go to the pool room. Good Luck
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Someone that knows me very well once said to another person in my presence "this guy would probably leave his wife if he knew he could reach the level he wants" or something to that nature.
I don't know what that says about me or how I feel about pool but I will agree that I put a tremendous amount of pressure on myself, and this is done with everything. I know that the break from pool does yield good results at times but I think it's the randomness of the break and not the planning of it that does this. IMO I have made about a years worth of progress in the last 3-4 months, which in my case is years due to certain factors but that a different story. So, at this time i am frozen with fear that if i was to step back now i may never cross this wall that i should of been over a few years back. I have refocused and changed my entire approach which has helped me to have a noticeable change in my game and this is not me talking, others have said to me "I have not seen you play like this in a looooong time" "wow, your game has really improved what did you do?" and let me tell you I have waited a long as time to hear that.

I grew tired of not seeing what others did and thus really put myself down. Now I am at a point where I feel good about me, F what others think, this feel to good and at this time right now in my life (other than my little 1yro, but we not talking that deep) in the only thing that I can look for to make me feel good or brings me joy. For those higher speed players, year some of the lower ones too but the higher one spend more time there so that they, it's like being in the zone where you are on auto aim and making it look like you are robbing that person or the tournament, THAT is what I feel and if I let that go there is nothing left to even brush my finger tips against to give that false sense of security that I won't hit the ground. So I need this.

The problem is, this game we follow is an emotional roller coaster and i'm having a bit of a hard time accepting that the key to keeping the roller coaster going is that it must go down in order to come back up so that it can keep going.
 
measureman said:
I play well enough to run a rack of 10 or 9 ball every time I step to the table.
It doesn't matter if Efren Reyes or Joe Banger is my opponent.
They can't win if they are sitting in the chair.
Play the table not the opponent.
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Tap tap tap!

There are only a few things mentioned after this post that even matter with an opponent IMO.

How many chances am I going to get?
What kind of chances am I going to get?
How many mistakes you can make and get away with.

Thats about it as I see it, the rest is self imposed stress/pressure based on the mental comparisons you make in your own head by 'measuring up' your skills vs your opponent.
A certain amount of stress can be beneficial, but if negative thoughts and self condemnation creep in it can be hard to get rid of.

One of the best pieces of instruction Ive seen on the mental game (and Ive read the Inner Game of Tennis, and Pleasures of Small Motions) is Jimmy Reids "No Time for Negative". He shares a few tips that he was successful with through the years, and really, its just good sound advice for anyone willing to listen and try it with an open mind.
 
Chuck Fields said:
the rest is self imposed stress/pressure based on the mental comparisons you make in your own head.
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One of the most poignant things I've ever seen written here. I was taught at a very young age that "fear" & "pressure" aren't real, they are not tangible entities. The only place that they exist is in your mind. That is where they are created & where they live if you allow them to, that choice is yours.

Reality? There is no real difference between the shot you shoot alone in practice 100 out of 100 times and that same shot when it is on a case 9 ball to win the U.S. OPEN, it's just your perception of it. It's the same shot but because of the situation you attach more importance to it than when you drill it in practice. It's that change in perception that you need to overcome, it's just a shot, look at it as such.
 
Chuck Fields said:
Tap tap tap!

There are only a few things mentioned after this post that even matter with an opponent IMO.

How many chances am I going to get?
What kind of chances am I going to get?
How many mistakes you can make and get away with.

Thats about it as I see it, the rest is self imposed stress/pressure based on the mental comparisons you make in your own head by 'measuring up' your skills vs your opponent.
A certain amount of stress can be beneficial, but if negative thoughts and self condemnation creep in it can be hard to get rid of.

One of the best pieces of instruction Ive seen on the mental game (and Ive read the Inner Game of Tennis, and Pleasures of Small Motions) is Jimmy Reids "No Time for Negative". He shares a few tips that he was successful with through the years, and really, its just good sound advice for anyone willing to listen and try it with an open mind.
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Again, I agree and disagree.
One needs to have confidence in his ability to execute that which he is thinking and this has no effect on his opponent at the time. If he is not able to do that which is needed then stress and pressure can be created. What do you tell a C player matching up against an A player when the A player misses a shot of the side pocket tit and leaves him with a tough shot to get onto his next ball for the 3 ball out to win the set, "hey, fear and stress is only in your head, stroke that thing with inside and go three rails to land right here with perfect position to get back up table to shoot the 9"?

I'm sorry but I do not see your advice as applicable in this situation as others have done a fine job of doing, I am not discrediting the info just not seeing it's merit here.

Mental confidence in ones ability and fundamentals are key strengths to reducing stress when competing. Advice given here are stressing these points. Being able to long jump 7 feet or drive a ball 400 yards consistently is a good thing to know and be able to draw on as something to get you into the final round. Efren has great skill, do you think he feels confident going into a match with a player who has a killer break? we all know his break is a weak point but what percentage do you think he goes in with saying "I don't care about my opponent, I just want my chance".
 
7forlife said:
What do you tell a C player matching up against an A player when the A player misses a shot of the side pocket tit and leaves him with a tough shot to get onto his next ball for the 3 ball out to win the set, "hey, fear and stress is only in your head, stroke that thing with inside and go three rails to land right here with perfect position to get back up table to shoot the 9"?
Click to expand...

I would tell them to have fun and try their best. Then I would tell them to pay attention to how the A player is shooting, and see if they can learn something.

I would not mention stress or anything of the sort. Its counterproductive. If the C player asked me how to handle the stress and the pressure, I would tell them the same thing. Have fun, try hard, and try to learn.

If a person chooses to let fear of failure rule their lives, all I can say is hopefully they can get past it and build their self confidence up. Win or lose, its about doing your best, and trying to improve.

There are always going to be better players than me, you or any one of us on here. You can choose to live you your life worrying about being the best player in your pool room, your hometown, your state etc etc etc. A healthier and more productive concept than focusing on being the best player in your state etc, is to focus on being the best player you can be. If you focus on being honest with yourself, and work on eliminating your weaknesses one bite at a time, at some point the elephant will be gone.

Right now, you are focused on stress and pressure. Work on that, face the concern head on. Ask yourself questions. Why do I feel like I succumb to pressure? What can I do to remove those obstacles? It could be something as simple as performance anxiety. No different than anything else, repetition will help. Play as many tournaments as you can. If you gamble, gamble as much as you can afford as often as you can.

Life isnt as hard as we all make it in reality. Everybody has stuff they need to work on. And some stuff is easier said than done, but if its a realistic goal, its achievable.
 
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BTW, I charge $200 an hour for psychological counseling. Youre up to $20 right now........ :thumbup:
 
Great thread, great discussion.

Much of it applies to my challenges at the table lately. Thanks!
 
The one quote i remember from the monk is "if you live with one foot in the past and one in the future you'll piss all over the present" easy to say it takes experience to master


ceebee said:
My first time at playing a big Tournament in 2001, after returning to Pool in 1999, I had read a lot of books & one thing got my attention. So I wrote that phrase in the palm of my hand, so I would see it every time I chalked my cue. 71 matches later, I won the prize.

"One shot at a time"... yep that's it, but in reality that's all anyone can do. Living in the moment, rather than worrying about the entire event or a shot you missed 10 minutes ago, will get it done.

Another example could be this. You can't build a house in one day. Concentrating on each task will insure the house gets built & built well.
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A good tip is not to shoot a shot until you are comfortable and confident you are going to make it. If you down to shoot and think you are going to miss, then more than likely you are, stand up and start again until you are comfortable. I found that helped me enormously when I was struggling in league matches.

Also visualizing exactly what you are going to do with a shot before shooting it, how the balls will contact, where the white will come to rest etc.

If that doesn't help, then a couple of beers should settle the stroke ;)
 
I really like alot of what has been said here. Especially Jaden, Sixpack , Neil and Shootingarts. There is alot of experience on AZ and its actually rare to see so many of the older posters in one thread. So kudos to you OP for bringing out the old timers on AZ.

I would offer a few suggestions, things that helped me in the past. First, you need to find a way to video tape yourself in competition. In florida, the amateurs are blessed with the combination of Tony Crosby's tour and the Xtremepoolchallenge.com guys who are there streaming at all the events. You can buy your matches for $5 and sometimes they just post them online. I have always made it a point to buy my matches and study them closely. They have helped me to isolate how my fundamentals have deteriorated and I have been working to try to correct them. You will also see in great detail what types of position play you are struggling with under pressure and what you do well under pressure. Practice becomes alot more productive when you can better isolate what you are weak in. Confidence and a strong mental game for me is often a growing combination of successes building upon one another. By the same way, as I begin to struggle its usually a combination of a number of things that are failing. So by disciplined practice you can step by step work on the weaknesses and in competition is helps to sustain higher confidence.

I think for many amateur players, practice is often "hitting balls". IMO the mere action of "hitting balls" has very little tangible benefits for the above avg amateur. Real disciplined practice is mostly not always alot of fun, because to do so, you are obsessively shooting shots you are bad at. Most people enjoy doing what they are good at, not long sessions of what they suck at.

The mental toughness under duress aspect of the game seems to be at the heart of this thread you started. Here is an interesting book that is not mentioned alot in these threads that discuss the mental game. Usually its the inner game of tennis that is touted.

www.amazon.com/New-Toughness-Training-Sports-Psychologists/dp/0452269989/
You can buy it used for 1c plus 3.99 shipping. For $4 I think you cannot go wrong giving this a look over. I found it to cover alot of what others in this thread have alluded to. Good luck to you on your quest for higher levels of concentration and confidence under pressure.
 
Hey Chuck now we on the same page. $20? If it take you that long to type it's not my fault, it only takes me a couple seconds to read so that what i'm paying for, lol.

@uwate: don't thank me I just put it out there with very little back in expectancy. They came out and shock the hell out of me, it's by far the most pleasant feedback i've had and the nicest thread I've read in a long time. So it's hats off to these guy.

@uwate: I do tape myself, have been doing so for a long time now but it's not something I do consistently really only when I feel like I need. I've recently started back cause i've done some changes to my stance so wanted to catch that and I plan on catching all of my 14.1 matches this season (2 down so far). My last match is one that I don't look forward to watching for fear of a relapse, lol.
 
uwate said:
I really like alot of what has been said here. Especially Jaden, Sixpack , Neil and Shootingarts. There is alot of experience on AZ and its actually rare to see so many of the older posters in one thread. So kudos to you OP for bringing out the old timers on AZ.

I would offer a few suggestions, things that helped me in the past. First, you need to find a way to video tape yourself in competition. In florida, the amateurs are blessed with the combination of Tony Crosby's tour and the Xtremepoolchallenge.com guys who are there streaming at all the events. You can buy your matches for $5 and sometimes they just post them online. I have always made it a point to buy my matches and study them closely. They have helped me to isolate how my fundamentals have deteriorated and I have been working to try to correct them. You will also see in great detail what types of position play you are struggling with under pressure and what you do well under pressure. Practice becomes alot more productive when you can better isolate what you are weak in. Confidence and a strong mental game for me is often a growing combination of successes building upon one another. By the same way, as I begin to struggle its usually a combination of a number of things that are failing. So by disciplined practice you can step by step work on the weaknesses and in competition is helps to sustain higher confidence.

I think for many amateur players, practice is often "hitting balls". IMO the mere action of "hitting balls" has very little tangible benefits for the above avg amateur. Real disciplined practice is mostly not always alot of fun, because to do so, you are obsessively shooting shots you are bad at. Most people enjoy doing what they are good at, not long sessions of what they suck at.

The mental toughness under duress aspect of the game seems to be at the heart of this thread you started. Here is an interesting book that is not mentioned alot in these threads that discuss the mental game. Usually its the inner game of tennis that is touted.

www.amazon.com/New-Toughness-Training-Sports-Psychologists/dp/0452269989/
You can buy it used for 1c plus 3.99 shipping. For $4 I think you cannot go wrong giving this a look over. I found it to cover alot of what others in this thread have alluded to. Good luck to you on your quest for higher levels of concentration and confidence under pressure.
Click to expand...

Whole post is good, but everyone needs to read that part in red until their eyes bleed.:wink:
 
uwate said:
I really like alot of what has been said here. Especially Jaden, Sixpack , Neil and Shootingarts. There is alot of experience on AZ and its actually rare to see so many of the older posters in one thread. So kudos to you OP for bringing out the old timers on AZ.

I would offer a few suggestions, things that helped me in the past. First, you need to find a way to video tape yourself in competition. In florida, the amateurs are blessed with the combination of Tony Crosby's tour and the Xtremepoolchallenge.com guys who are there streaming at all the events. You can buy your matches for $5 and sometimes they just post them online. I have always made it a point to buy my matches and study them closely. They have helped me to isolate how my fundamentals have deteriorated and I have been working to try to correct them. You will also see in great detail what types of position play you are struggling with under pressure and what you do well under pressure. Practice becomes alot more productive when you can better isolate what you are weak in. Confidence and a strong mental game for me is often a growing combination of successes building upon one another. By the same way, as I begin to struggle its usually a combination of a number of things that are failing. So by disciplined practice you can step by step work on the weaknesses and in competition is helps to sustain higher confidence.

I think for many amateur players, practice is often "hitting balls". IMO the mere action of "hitting balls" has very little tangible benefits for the above avg amateur. Real disciplined practice is mostly not always alot of fun, because to do so, you are obsessively shooting shots you are bad at. Most people enjoy doing what they are good at, not long sessions of what they suck at.

The mental toughness under duress aspect of the game seems to be at the heart of this thread you started. Here is an interesting book that is not mentioned alot in these threads that discuss the mental game. Usually its the inner game of tennis that is touted.

www.amazon.com/New-Toughness-Training-Sports-Psychologists/dp/0452269989/
You can buy it used for 1c plus 3.99 shipping. For $4 I think you cannot go wrong giving this a look over. I found it to cover alot of what others in this thread have alluded to. Good luck to you on your quest for higher levels of concentration and confidence under pressure.
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I agree with Neil that this is extremely important and it reminds me of something related to fundamentals and practice.

If you play worse when you try harder - there is a disconnect between your mental image of what you are doing or think you should be doing and what you are actually doing.

This shows up as folding under pressure.

Practice that doesn't create the correct mental and physical imagery makes this gap worse. Practicing the right things the right way reduces this gap.

Practicing the wrong way - i.e. lazily throwing balls up on the table and shooting them in without aiming or thinking - increases this gap.

That's why a lesson from someone like Scott Lee can help no matter what level you are. It decreases that gap. I've always felt like the best players have virtually no gap.
 
You can have the best fundamentals and still miss balls... You see it all the time Hell we saw it in the Shane-Ko match... Why did they miss? Well, "things" get in their heads. Your position can be a bit off and that immediately puts immediate and unforeseen pressure on you. Unlike a robot, we are human beings with emotions that are affected by outside circumstances. Those circumstances can cause our emotions to flare up at any time and affect our muscle memory. What you need to do is take the "emotion" out of the equation...

So I believe the "fix" in being inconsistent, once you play fairly well, is purposely putting yourself in as many of those emotional situations as you can till your mind and body "learn" to ignore them...
 
skins said:
You can have the best fundamentals and still miss balls... You see it all the time Hell we saw it in the Shane-Ko match... Why did they miss? Well, "things" get in their heads. Your position can be a bit off and that immediately puts immediate and unforeseen pressure on you. Unlike a robot, we are human beings with emotions that are affected by outside circumstances. Those circumstances can cause our emotions to flare up at any time and affect our muscle memory. What you need to do is take the "emotion" out of the equation...

So I believe the "fix" in being inconsistent, once you play fairly well, is purposely putting yourself in as many of those emotional situations as you can till your mind and body "learn" to ignore them...
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This^^... we're human, even the very best players have 'brain farts' in big matches, or just taking a shot for granted. There was a match where Efren, of all people, missed a small, easy cut shot in the side. Checking your emotions so as not to go "on tilt" is a huge challenge for pool players.
 
....And the sign said "The Floor is Open... But bangers need not apply"
So I tucked my cue up under my arm, and went in to ask him why...

He said " you look like a fine upstanding young man, but can you cue? "
So I ran off some racks and said " imagine that...me, giving tips to you?..."

Oohsigns signs.. everywhere signs
****ing up the scenery, breaking my mind
Do this..don't do that..can't you read the signs
 
Mr. Bond said:
....And the sign said "The Floor is Open... But bangers need not apply"
So I tucked my cue up under my arm, and went in to ask him why...

He said " you look like a fine upstanding young man, but can you cue? "
So I ran off some racks and said " imagine that...me, giving tips to you?..."

Oohsigns signs.. everywhere signs
****ing up the scenery, breaking my mind
Do this..don't do that..can't you read the signs
Click to expand...

And the sign says "Everybody welcome, come in, cue up and play"
But a man beat me and held out his hand at the end of it all
And I didn't have a penny to pay
So I got me a pen and a paper and I made up my own new sign
I said, "IOU and I hope this good keep me alive and let me leave fine", oh
 
Patience and calm helped me. I knew I was good enough for a decent run at 9 ball run to 7 or whatever. Harnessing one's emotions is difficult. I'd get down and it would make matters worse affecting my usually loose personality. It would eat at me for hours after. 1st of all it's important to realize there are lots of players better than ourselves. And even at times we lose to a lesser player. The important message is to concentrate on each match, breathe easily and relax. Do not hold the cue when not shooting, do not waste thinking about what the opponent is doing, save mental strength for when you arrive at the table, sit, let arms hang limp, no negative thoughts. Isolate game problems and work on them with targeted practices. When irritated after a match trick the mind. Think of something nice in your life. There's always another game.
 
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