The hard question

Dimeball

Dimeball

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Who really supports the US players? Or players playing in the US, as I welcome all top players from around the world and wish more would come, but why would they?

So I'm asking this because the past month or so made me really question who supports pool in the US, or just talks the talk?

There has been three pretty large tourneys lately with The Who's who pros current in the US that haven't really received the recognition due. The big one in Oregon, Scotty Townsand Memorial, and just this past weekend Dixie Land, all of which had top names play, you know whom I am referring to. Yet AZ prefers to spread the lesser tourneys and non US events. Perhaps this is some political BS, but why has these not been put out there loudly nor payouts attributed? The players are suppporting themselves with the drop in sponsorship and the main media site isn't showing support, apologies, but this isn't helping the sport we all love.

I'll add that if anyone says it's because they were 7' events, you are blind to the topic at hand. Fact, Pros must play these events in order to keep cash flow coming in and promote their way of life, period. Nothing follows!
 
It is really very simple, the promoters are falling down on the job. Within 48 hours, a tournament report complete with finishing order should be sent to all possible media sources.

AZ cant be responsible for reporting the event, if they get no results from whomever ran the show.

The events that you do read about.....send in the results and a short story within a week.

It should be every tournament directors job, to post the results post haste.
 
Rockin' Robin said:
It is really very simple, the promoters are falling down on the job. Within 48 hours, a tournament report complete with finishing order should be sent to all possible media sources.

AZ cant be responsible for reporting the event, if they get no results from whomever ran the show.

The events that you do read about.....send in the results and a short story within a week.

It should be every tournament directors job, to post the results post haste.
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This makes the most sense that I've heard
 
Dimeball said:
Who really supports the US players? Or players playing in the US, as I welcome all top players from around the world and wish more would come, but why would they?
Click to expand...

I say let 'em support themselves. We don't owe them anything.

I put in forty to sixty hours a week on a GM assembly line, alarm going off at 4:30 in the morning for 30 years. Nobody supported me. Do you drive a car? If you do, that made my job as important (hell, MORE important) than any professional pool player in the world.

Fact is, for my thirty years of hard work, I made about as much money as the top tier pool players do in half the time that I put in. All they have to do is PLAY a game, a game that I have paid to play and for the pure enjoyment of for all my life.

I'm sorry, but they get zero sympathy from me. Like everyone else, they certainly have the right to find other lines of work. If professional pool suddenly disappeared off the face of the Earth, pool/billiards would still be played by millions worldwide.

JMO, please don't bash me for it. I worked far too long and hard to have any empathy for any of them.

Maniac
 
Maniac said:
I say let 'em support themselves. We don't owe them anything.

I put in forty to sixty hours a week on a GM assembly line, alarm going off at 4:30 in the morning for 30 years. Nobody supported me. Do you drive a car? If you do, that made my job as important (hell, MORE important) than any professional pool player in the world.

Fact is, for my thirty years of hard work, I made about as much money as the top tier pool players do in half the time that I put in. All they have to do is PLAY a game, a game that I have paid to play and for the pure enjoyment of for all my life.

I'm sorry, but they get zero sympathy from me. Like everyone else, they certainly have the right to find other lines of work. If professional pool suddenly disappeared off the face of the Earth, pool/billiards would still be played by millions worldwide.

JMO, please don't bash me for it. I worked far too long and hard to have any empathy for any of them.

Maniac
Click to expand...

I like your post.
 
Dimeball said:
Who really supports the US players? Or players playing in the US, as I welcome all top players from around the world and wish more would come, but why would they?

So I'm asking this because the past month or so made me really question who supports pool in the US, or just talks the talk?

There has been three pretty large tourneys lately with The Who's who pros current in the US that haven't really received the recognition due. The big one in Oregon, Scotty Townsand Memorial, and just this past weekend Dixie Land, all of which had top names play, you know whom I am referring to. Yet AZ prefers to spread the lesser tourneys and non US events. Perhaps this is some political BS, but why has these not been put out there loudly nor payouts attributed? The players are suppporting themselves with the drop in sponsorship and the main media site isn't showing support, apologies, but this isn't helping the sport we all love.

I'll add that if anyone says it's because they were 7' events, you are blind to the topic at hand. Fact, Pros must play these events in order to keep cash flow coming in and promote their way of life, period. Nothing follows!
Click to expand...


Tournament promoters are notoriously bad at providing event updates and final results. So that's one. I suppose next is the fact that the pro players don't engage their fans here, so few here are going to get particularly excited about whatever they do. Now, you can argue that it's because they don't get proper respect here, but I think that's pretty bogus. IMO it's the opposite -- on the rare occasion they do come here, the pro players are the ones who fail to show respect to the forum members, expecting to be fawned over and to not be questioned, even when they make some pretty dubious assertions.

I also think it's just the nature of the sport. Most of those guys came up stealing from us guys. So it's hard to hold them up as sports idols when you've rubbed shoulders with them and seen that they're not exactly members of The Royal Family. Lastly, most of us have worked hard for many years to create a life for ourselves so it's hard to get revved up about the life pro pool players have chosen for themselves and cheer them on.

Lou Figueroa
 
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lfigueroa said:
Tournament promoters are notoriously bad at providing event updates and final results. So that's one. I suppose next is the fact that the pro players don't engage their fans here, so few here are going to get particularly excited about whatever they do. Now, you can argue that it's because they don't get proper respect here, but I think that's pretty bogus. IMO it's the opposite -- on the rare occasion they do come here, the pro players are the ones who fail to show respect to the forum members, expecting to be fawned over and to not be questioned, even when they make some pretty dubious assertions.

I also think it's just the nature of the sport. Most of those guys came up stealing from us guys. So it's hard to hold them up as sports idiots when you've rubbed shoulders with them and seen that they're not exactly members of The Royal Family. Lastly, most of us have worked hard for many years to create a life for ourselves so it's hard to get revved up about the life pro pool players have chosen for themselves and cheer them on.

Lou Figueroa
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I can respect that.
Some of the pros did come up through the hustling ranks and some are just crappy people, but not all them. I also agree on the promoters. We are all on this site for the same reason, either today, or at some point in time, we completely love the games of pool for our own reasons. I know not all of our champions are good people, it's easy to make a donation for the big sports athletes and post a fake persona, but most them suck too. We just don't have the media backing.
I guess my point is that if we don't boast up our champions and make them known, the players of tomorrow will decline. Efren and Strickland made noise and gave younger players motivation and heros to pursue. SVB is doing today along with a few other of today's greats. We gotta keep it rolling.
Ok I'm done... thanks
 
Rockin' Robin said:
It is really very simple, the promoters are falling down on the job. Within 48 hours, a tournament report complete with finishing order should be sent to all possible media sources.

AZ cant be responsible for reporting the event, if they get no results from whomever ran the show.

The events that you do read about.....send in the results and a short story within a week.

It should be every tournament directors job, to post the results post haste.
Click to expand...



Somebody said that you make sense!
I second that sense.

randyg
 
Dimeball said:
Who really supports the US players? Or players playing in the US, as I welcome all top players from around the world and wish more would come, but why would they?
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we "support" the players the same way the public supports other sports players, by paying to see them play (sometimes), mostly watching them on TV (and watching the commercials) and sometimes buying their "gear".

The problem is there are 50 million people supporting NFL players and only 5000 supporting pool players.......(thus no TV market) :(
 
michael4 said:
we "support" the players the same way the public supports other sports players, by paying to see them play (sometimes), mostly watching them on TV (and watching the commercials) and sometimes buying their "gear".

The problem is there are 50 million people supporting NFL players and only 5000 supporting pool players.......(thus no TV market) :(
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Very few pay to see them play, in fact I see many posts on here and on the streams where people say they won't pay for pool matches, live or on a stream. I have to say I have not paid for a pool stream since TAR stopped doing them. Mostly because they are 7 foot events. If something like the Ultimate 10 Ball tournament (now gone but well done) or the Bigfoot challenge was available for say $15 for the full event, I'm in. A huge issue for me and I'm sure many of us, is that events that happen during the week, we are working during many matches. Since many streams do not have a replay, paying for a stream of the derby or something when you can only see half or less of the matches is silly. If the live stream had an on demand replay, or maybe a DVD set that was shipped to you, then I'd put my money in on those.
 
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I don't care much for professional pool. I enjoy the Mosconi Cup, but that's about it. I think maybe we should worry more about supporting amateur pool than anything else. 99% of us are not pros, so why not try to make our events bigger and better?
 
michael4 said:
we "support" the players the same way the public supports other sports players, by paying to see them play
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I am reminded every time I see a video of "Ronnie the Rocket" playing Snooker, that the stands are 10+ rows deep, every seat filled, enthusiastic and polite crowd, either all the way around the table (or 3/4 depending on the venue). 1000+ people for a single match.

This is close the the entire viewing public for pool over here (or as some would like one to believe.)

I watched SVB in a Ca tournament a couple of years ago. Appleton, Pagayon, and Bustamonte were far more enjoyable at the table. And that new Chinese kid (forgot) was stimply stupendous (2-table length draws! Some of them even did him good).
 
Maniac said:
I say let 'em support themselves. We don't owe them anything.

I put in forty to sixty hours a week on a GM assembly line, alarm going off at 4:30 in the morning for 30 years. Nobody supported me. Do you drive a car? If you do, that made my job as important (hell, MORE important) than any professional pool player in the world.

Fact is, for my thirty years of hard work, I made about as much money as the top tier pool players do in half the time that I put in. All they have to do is PLAY a game, a game that I have paid to play and for the pure enjoyment of for all my life.

I'm sorry, but they get zero sympathy from me. Like everyone else, they certainly have the right to find other lines of work. If professional pool suddenly disappeared off the face of the Earth, pool/billiards would still be played by millions worldwide.

JMO, please don't bash me for it. I worked far too long and hard to have any empathy for any of them.

Maniac
Click to expand...

Yeah, but they can do something nobody in the world can do. I'm not knocking your job, but let's use another example, like trash collection. Well, anyone could do that, so it pays bad. Nobody can play pool at top levels but a very small percentage of the population.

That's how wages should come out in my opinion. If nobody can do it, it should pay amazing. If everyone can do it, it should pay crap. That's why sports are so great; it's the one thing we have where all that matters is how good you are. Everything else in life all that matters is how willing you are to screw other people over to get ahead.

These guys are just super unlucky is the only way to look at it that I can see. If they just so happened to be good at hitting a baseball with a wooden bat they'd be millionaires many times over.

I think the answer to the initial question is everybody is in it only for themselves, players included.
 
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Ekojasiloop said:
Yeah, but they can do something nobody in the world can do. I'm not knocking your job, but let's use another example, like trash collection. Well, anyone could do that, so it pays bad. Nobody can play pool at top levels but a very small percentage of the population.

That's how wages should come out in my opinion. If nobody can do it, it should pay amazing. If everyone can do it, it should pay crap. That's why sports are so great; it's the one thing we have where all that matters is how good you are. Everything else in life all that matters is how willing you are to screw other people over to get ahead.

These guys are just super unlucky is the only way to look at it that I can see. If they just so happened to be good at hitting a baseball with a wooden bat they'd be millionaires many times over.

I think the answer to the initial question is everybody is in it only for themselves, players included.
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I'm amazing with a yoyo. Pay up!
 
Who should compensate pro players?

Why should that entity compensate the pro players?

How does that entity arrive at the right compensation?
 
Can anyone really be surprised at the state of reporting on American pool? Just look at the current crop of players, look at the lack of professionalism, a few guys excluded of course. Look at how the events are promoted and run...

I swear if I could figure out how to get the hell off of Charlie William's Dragon Promotions mailing list... That's not tournament promotion, that's spam and it's illegal to not have an unsubscribe button.... For the love of god, study design and take an english class Charlie.

Rant over...

My point is there is a lack of professionalism. From the promotion, to the write-ups, to fans actually being willing to pay to watch or for pool news. Everyone seems to think content should be free - someone has to create it, and that takes time, energy, effort and skill. While the internet is great for many things, quality content - hasn't been one. Nobody wants to pay for anything, people seem to think they're special....
 
Who should compensate pro players? The event director

Why should that entity compensate the pro players? He has the money.

How does that entity arrive at the right compensation? The (take minus the overhead) allocated into the top paid spots: 36%, 17%, 11%, 8%, 7%, 6%, 5%, 4%, 3%, 2%, 1%
 
9ballhasbeen said:
Can anyone really be surprised at the state of reporting on American pool? Just look at the current crop of players, look at the lack of professionalism, a few guys excluded of course. Look at how the events are promoted and run...
Click to expand...

thats not necessarily the problem. Take boxing for example, most boxers are not choir boys, yet there is a lot of money in it, --> because the public wants to watch it.

Actually, bizarre personalities in the boxers make the sport more popular....It all boils down the the American public, not many of us want to watch pool on TV, therefore the networks dont show it, therefore there is no advertising money in pool, and therefore events that do exist are run "on the cheap"....young people today dont play pool, they play video games and poker. They dont watch pool on TV either, they watch Zombie shows on netflix.......

It would take a bigly action movie with all of today's top male stars playing pool, to change that.....
 
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