The Hollywood Hustler

[Tommy Joe]

Now I will tell you a brief true story regarding an incident from my pool-playing years. There was a guy who often came to my poolroom accompanied by a very good player. He was backing the player financially, although he himself could not play very well. I lost to this player on more than one occasion and was not happy about it. The backer gloated. I tried often to get the backer to play me. I offered him various handicaps but he refused them all.

Well, it just so happens at that time I was also doing standup comedy, specifically an act involving me playing the saxophone on stage with slicked back hair wearing sun-glasses and using a loud New York accent. My character's name was Tommy Conrad. It was a funny act. But soon I would not confine my act to the stage.

One day I was thinking about this guy and how much I wanted to beat him and suddenly the idea came to me. I grabbed the Tommy Conrad suit-coat out of my closet and put it on over a black turtle-neck shirt, slicked back my hair, put on a pair of sun-glasses, and went to my adversary’s home poolroom. I got myself a table and pretended to practice, banging the balls around. I used an open bridge, intentionally missing shots. From behind the sun-glasses I could see my mark sizing me up. Sure enough he came over. I asked if he wanted to play. He didn't recognize me in the get up. He said yes.

We played for $2.00 a game, 9 ball. I beat him for maybe $6.00. Then he quit. I paid my pool tab and left. I came back half an hour later wearing different clothes, no sun-glasses, hair unslicked. I walked up to the guy I had just beat and asked if he had seen my brother. He said he didn't know I had a brother. I told him my brother looks something like me except he wears his hair slicked back and has a heavy New York accent and sometimes wears sun-glasses.

At this point the guy cringed. He knew. He knew I was the guy who had beaten him. But he would not and could not admit it. And I never threw it in his face. He sort of looked down at the floor and muttered, "Yeah, I think there was a guy in here that looked like that." I said thanks and walked out. It was a great feeling to beat this guy, even if it was only for $6,00. I was very proud of what I had done, more proud than any big-money hustler who takes people off for thousands of dollars by pretending he can't play. I pretended to be someone other than myself and fooled the guy. I'm telling you it was fantastic, and one hundred percent true.

Tommy Joe

 

[cuechick]

That is a funny story, it reminds of one I heard about Stevie Moore when he and Bruce Berong were on the road. Stevie played this guy, giving him the 7 and won about 1000.00. He went back to his hotel and shaved his head! Came back the next night and played the same dude even and won another grand!

 

[Johnnyt]

That is a funny story, it reminds of one I heard about Stevie Moore when he and Bruce Berong were on the road. Stevie played this guy, giving him the 7 and won about 1000.00. He went back to his hotel and shaved his head! Came back the next night and played the same dude even and won another grand!

That is funny. Johnnyt.

 

[jay helfert]

Another Hustler

I liked that story, so I'll tell you one.

Year ago when my daughter was in High School, she and her buddies used to hang out in a little dive in Venice (Circle Inn I think it was called).

And they had a bar table there. The kids would play for fun or maybe a drink (a beer or a soda). This cab driver started to frequent the place and get into the pool games with the kids. He would ask them to play for a few dollars and not a drink. And he would not give up the table until someone beat him. And none of these kids played good enough to beat him, so he killed the games and the fun for the kids.

My daughter tells me this story one day, and I tell her to call me next time you see him there. So he shows up soon enough, and she calls me. I come down and sit on the rail visiting with the kids, and watch this champ play.
I tell my daughter to ask if her Dad can play. He looks at me and say sure, why not. He had already won several games and five or ten bucks.

So soon, it's my game and I proceed to rack the balls. The guy stops before breaking and asks me "What's the bet"? I play dumb and say what do you mean? He says we have to bet something. So I ask him what's customary. He says a few dollars or so is fine. So I agree to play for three dollars.

I made sure the first game was close (I made some balls), but I lost. I acted angry and told him how lucky he was. He totally bit! He said, well how much do you want to play for? I took out a wad of several hundred and said how about fifty bucks. His eyes got big. The kids were real quiet, because they knew me. The hustler was a little uncertain, but his ego was on the line. A couple of the kids began to razz him.

I think he thought he could beat me, but was more afraid of the size of the bet than me. So I got quiet, like I was scared, and didn't say anything. Finally he looks at me and says "Are you serious"? I act brave and say sure, why not. Well we play the first game and I win. Now he is hot and embarassed. I act like I got real lucky. He says let's play another. Okay, so I win game two. Now, he's infuriated, like almost ready to fight. Except about a half dozen of these 18 and 19 year old kids are men bigger (and much tougher) than him.

Now I rub it in by telling him how lucky I was that game. He says he wants to play one double or nothing for $100. Okay why not I say and off we go.
Now I break hard, make a couple of balls and run out. He finally sees the light. He has been hustled! And he doens't like it. He doesn't want to pay at first, until one very burly kid named Joff tells him to pay up or get his ass kicked (in those very words).

He pays me and I look at him and tell him to quit coming in here and hustling these kids. If you do, I'll be back. He storms out and to my knowledge did not return. I gave my daughter fifty and told her to buy drinks for everyone until it runs out. That was such a sweet score.

 

[Johnnyt]

Opps

One night in the mid to late 1960’s I was out with my new wife of a few months. She really didn’t like going in bars but I guess she felt she needed to baby sit me.

We’re in this bar called the Log Cabin in Oceanside, Long Island. I have no idea why I was hustling pool in there, as I knew I was hated there.

Anyhow I’m beating everybody playing eight ball for an hour or so until this guy won’t pay me the $20 he just lost. I hit him and broke some of his teeth. When I look around I see about a dozen or so guys from about 18 to 25 years old rushing to his defense.

I start backing up to the door swinging my cue to keep them away from me. I yelled to my wife to go start the car. I was lucky that only one guy got a pretty good shot to the side of my head as I was getting into the car. She took off for home and has never gone to a bar with me since. That was 39 years ago. Johnnyt

 

[wade]

good hustle

when my wife and me just started dating i started helping her learn a little about 9 ball she picked up real quick so in about 1 year we got engaged and started going to alot of different tournaments and pool rooms so we started going to a room about 20 minutes away and i knew alot of people there so i asked around to see who was hitting the balls good around here now, i just heard the same names but there was a guy that gambled alot so one night he comes in and after about 30 min. i am approached by the guy he say's to me i hear you play pretty good and i said boy have they been lying to you so after everything is said and done i play the guy 2 to 3times a week for 3 weeks and hook him for $1500 so we start to be good friends so i tell him that i feel bad giving him the 7 out and run over him so i offer to let him play my wife to try to get some of his money back, so i tell him she will need the 8 ball and for the next month they play 3 to 4 times a week and all i can say is that free wedding and honeymoon really helped out for a couple just starting out.

 

[chefjeff]

Now I will tell you a brief true story regarding an incident from my pool-playing years. There was a guy who often came to my poolroom accompanied by a very good player. He was backing the player financially, although he himself could not play very well. I lost to this player on more than one occasion and was not happy about it. The backer gloated. I tried often to get the backer to play me. I offered him various handicaps but he refused them all.

Well, it just so happens at that time I was also doing standup comedy, specifically an act involving me playing the saxophone on stage with slicked back hair wearing sun-glasses and using a loud New York accent. My character's name was Tommy Conrad. It was a funny act. But soon I would not confine my act to the stage.

One day I was thinking about this guy and how much I wanted to beat him and suddenly the idea came to me. I grabbed the Tommy Conrad suit-coat out of my closet and put it on over a black turtle-neck shirt, slicked back my hair, put on a pair of sun-glasses, and went to my adversary’s home poolroom. I got myself a table and pretended to practice, banging the balls around. I used an open bridge, intentionally missing shots. From behind the sun-glasses I could see my mark sizing me up. Sure enough he came over. I asked if he wanted to play. He didn't recognize me in the get up. He said yes.

We played for $2.00 a game, 9 ball. I beat him for maybe $6.00. Then he quit. I paid my pool tab and left. I came back half an hour later wearing different clothes, no sun-glasses, hair unslicked. I walked up to the guy I had just beat and asked if he had seen my brother. He said he didn't know I had a brother. I told him my brother looks something like me except he wears his hair slicked back and has a heavy New York accent and sometimes wears sun-glasses.

At this point the guy cringed. He knew. He knew I was the guy who had beaten him. But he would not and could not admit it. And I never threw it in his face. He sort of looked down at the floor and muttered, "Yeah, I think there was a guy in here that looked like that." I said thanks and walked out. It was a great feeling to beat this guy, even if it was only for $6,00. I was very proud of what I had done, more proud than any big-money hustler who takes people off for thousands of dollars by pretending he can't play. I pretended to be someone other than myself and fooled the guy. I'm telling you it was fantastic, and one hundred percent true.

Tommy Joe

Moral: Don't heckle the Hollywood Hustler!

Nice story. Do you still do stand-up?

Jeff Livingston

 

[StevenPWaldon]

Holy cow, talk about a run-on sentence!

when my wife and me just started dating i started helping her learn a little about 9 ball she picked up real quick so in about 1 year we got engaged and started going to alot of different tournaments and pool rooms so we started going to a room about 20 minutes away and i knew alot of people there so i asked around to see who was hitting the balls good around here now, i just heard the same names but there was a guy that gambled alot so one night he comes in and after about 30 min. i am approached by the guy he say's to me i hear you play pretty good and i said boy have they been lying to you so after everything is said and done i play the guy 2 to 3times a week for 3 weeks and hook him for $1500 so we start to be good friends so i tell him that i feel bad giving him the 7 out and run over him so i offer to let him play my wife to try to get some of his money back, so i tell him she will need the 8 ball and for the next month they play 3 to 4 times a week and all i can say is that free wedding and honeymoon really helped out for a couple just starting out.

 

[renard]

Holy cow, talk about a run-on sentence!

I was thinking the same thing! Hard read...good story!

 

[wade]

sorry about not putting enough .. in the story, it was to early in the morning for me.

 

[renard]

I liked that story, so I'll tell you one.

Year ago when my daughter was in High School, she and her buddies used to hang out in a little dive in Venice (Circle Inn I think it was called).

And they had a bar table there. The kids would play for fun or maybe a drink (a beer or a soda). This cab driver started to frequent the place and get into the pool games with the kids. He would ask them to play for a few dollars and not a drink. And he would not give up the table until someone beat him. And none of these kids played good enough to beat him, so he killed the games and the fun for the kids.

My daughter tells me this story one day, and I tell her to call me next time you see him there. So he shows up soon enough, and she calls me. I come down and sit on the rail visiting with the kids, and watch this champ play.
I tell my daughter to ask if her Dad can play. He looks at me and say sure, why not. He had already won several games and five or ten bucks.

So soon, it's my game and I proceed to rack the balls. The guy stops before breaking and asks me "What's the bet"? I play dumb and say what do you mean? He says we have to bet something. So I ask him what's customary. He says a few dollars or so is fine. So I agree to play for three dollars.

I made sure the first game was close (I made some balls), but I lost. I acted angry and told him how lucky he was. He totally bit! He said, well how much do you want to play for? I took out a wad of several hundred and said how about fifty bucks. His eyes got big. The kids were real quiet, because they knew me. The hustler was a little uncertain, but his ego was on the line. A couple of the kids began to razz him.

I think he thought he could beat me, but was more afraid of the size of the bet than me. So I got quiet, like I was scared, and didn't say anything. Finally he looks at me and says "Are you serious"? I act brave and say sure, why not. Well we play the first game and I win. Now he is hot and embarassed. I act like I got real lucky. He says let's play another. Okay, so I win game two. Now, he's infuriated, like almost ready to fight. Except about a half dozen of these 18 and 19 year old kids are men bigger (and much tougher) than him.

Now I rub it in by telling him how lucky I was that game. He says he wants to play one double or nothing for $100. Okay why not I say and off we go.
Now I break hard, make a couple of balls and run out. He finally sees the light. He has been hustled! And he doens't like it. He doesn't want to pay at first, until one very burly kid named Joff tells him to pay up or get his ass kicked (in those very words).

He pays me and I look at him and tell him to quit coming in here and hustling these kids. If you do, I'll be back. He storms out and to my knowledge did not return. I gave my daughter fifty and told her to buy drinks for everyone until it runs out. That was such a sweet score.

Great story Jay! Do you know how many accomplished pool players there are that would just love to have that chain of events fall right in thier lap? You played that one great, no wonder you remember it so well!

 

[Tommy Joe]

That is a funny story, it reminds of one I heard about Stevie Moore when he and Bruce Berong were on the road. Stevie played this guy, giving him the 7 and won about 1000.00. He went back to his hotel and shaved his head! Came back the next night and played the same dude even and won another grand!

Hah hah. I don't disbelieve that for a moment. But maybe the loser knew it was the same guy and was willing to play him anyway. Maybe he figured, "Hey, I couldn't beat him when he had hair, maybe I can beat him when he's bald." Maybe he was true believer in the bible and took the story of Samson to heart, thinking that without hair the guy wouldn't be as strong as he was the night before. Your report, which I believe, is funny though. I pulled a similiar stunt once with another guy who actually hung out in the same poolroom as me. Unlike the guy in the other story, this guy actually knew me on a daily basis. I put on a fake beard and walked with a limp and pretended I couldn't talk. It didn't take him long to find out. I didn't care. I loved it. I wasn't after money as much as the glory of pulling off such a stunt for even a short time. Thanks for the response.

Tommy Joe

 

[Tommy Joe]

I liked that story, so I'll tell you one.
He pays me and I look at him and tell him to quit coming in here and hustling these kids. If you do, I'll be back. He storms out and to my knowledge did not return. I gave my daughter fifty and told her to buy drinks for everyone until it runs out. That was such a sweet score.

That was entertaining. Let me tell you what I found most funny about your story, even before you came to the part where the Joff kid threatened to beat the guy's ass if he didn't pay. What was funny was the way your story started out with the meanie hustler taking advantage of a bunch of kids, but now we're seeing that they're not really kids afterall, they're fullgrown 18 year olds ready and willing to whip someone's ass for money. I don't know. Maybe they deserved to get hustled. Maybe. I did enjoy your story though.

Tommy Joe (Level Headed Observer)

 

[Tommy Joe]

Moral: Don't heckle the Hollywood Hustler!

Nice story. Do you still do stand-up?

Jeff Livingston

No I don't. My life still revolves around humor, as always, but I really don't enjoy doing it. My act was not long. It was not a bad act, a good one, in fact - and it could have gotten better. But I could never shake the reality that I'm putting on an act. If I had gone on stage and rocked the world from the very start without any work involved, yes, I'd probably be doing it today. But that didn't happen. It dawned on me somewhere along the way that be remotely successful at standup you have to work at it. I don't like working at things. I'm a lazy person and am not ashamed of it. I've been driving a cab the past 12 years in Winston Salem, just as I did for 13 years in L.A.. I'm not in love with it by any means. I make barely enough to survive - $200 to $300 a week. But I get to be myself the whole time, or most of it anyway. If someone gets in and asks me how I'm feeling, they better get ready to hear the truth. Thanks for your response.

Tommy Joe

 

[Tommy Joe]

One night in the mid to late 1960’s I was out with my
Anyhow I’m beating everybody playing eight ball for an hour or so until this guy won’t pay me the $20 he just lost. I hit him and broke some of his teeth. When I look around I see about a dozen or so guys from about 18 to 25 years old rushing to his defense. Johnnyt

Good story. Back in my early 20s I was taken by a backer to some really terrifying dives in L.A. Not only would I not have punched someone to collect $20.00 - I would, and have, actually lost on purpose just to calm them down enough to slide out unhurt. Sure, my Gandhi-like methods can be attributed to lack of heart - but, truth is, I didn't want to be in those places in the first place. From the start the vibe was bad. I may have brought some of that on myself, but I doubt it. I could feel the place was not a good place. I did not enjoy hustling. I was bad at it. I'm a glory hound - not ashamed to admit it. Losing to a good player is preferable to beating a bad one - especially a large mean bad one. I saw a guy back out of a bar once just as you described. It was incredible. I marveled at his guts because even before it happened I could see it might happen, and it did. I wonder if he saw it too, I mean before it happened. I don't know. But it was a marvel the way he came in alone and had to use his cue to get out the same way.

Tommy Joe

 

[jay helfert]

That was entertaining. Let me tell you what I found most funny about your story, even before you came to the part where the Joff kid threatened to beat the guy's ass if he didn't pay. What was funny was the way your story started out with the meanie hustler taking advantage of a bunch of kids, but now we're seeing that they're not really kids afterall, they're fullgrown 18 year olds ready and willing to whip someone's ass for money. I don't know. Maybe they deserved to get hustled. Maybe. I did enjoy your story though.

Tommy Joe (Level Headed Observer)

Tommy,

Actually, to me they were kids, but some of the boys may have been in their early 20's. They were all the surfer crowd from the breakwater in Venice. This was around 1990-91, not so awful long ago.

Did you say you were a cab driver in L.A.? Hummmm

 

[Tommy Joe]

sorry about not putting enough .. in the story, it was to early in the morning for me.

when i first starting coming into newsgroups a few years ago i found it annoying to see people typing in lower case and never using commas and periods but after a while i got used to it and even though i still have the habit of trying to type in the normal accepted manner although i have learned to accept and even appreciate writing without punctuation of any kind.

See, what I typed above came out kind of easy, but I had to work at it a bit. I had to consciously restrain myself from hitting the caps key every time I referred to myself in the first person. So what I'm saying is, I type in this manner not because I think this is the way it should be done, but because it's the way I learned it, and it became a habit. When I see a post written without caps or punctuation, I notice it right away - I can't help that - but I have found it easier over time to read that style and in fact can even see certain positives to it.

Tommy Joe

 

[chefjeff]

No I don't. My life still revolves around humor, as always, but I really don't enjoy doing it. My act was not long. It was not a bad act, a good one, in fact - and it could have gotten better. But I could never shake the reality that I'm putting on an act. If I had gone on stage and rocked the world from the very start without any work involved, yes, I'd probably be doing it today. But that didn't happen. It dawned on me somewhere along the way that be remotely successful at standup you have to work at it. I don't like working at things. I'm a lazy person and am not ashamed of it. I've been driving a cab the past 12 years in Winston Salem, just as I did for 13 years in L.A.. I'm not in love with it by any means. I make barely enough to survive - $200 to $300 a week. But I get to be myself the whole time, or most of it anyway. If someone gets in and asks me how I'm feeling, they better get ready to hear the truth. Thanks for your response.

Tommy Joe

I can appreciate the problems with standup...I've done it three times and that was plenty for me. I was trained by a guy named Gavin Jerome...ever hear of him? I never made any money, but standup sure teaches you a few things. I'm scheduled to do a gig in 5 years at my high school reunion. It's gonna take me that long to prepare.

I'd think being a cab driver would be like having a joke factory in the back of your ride.

Jeff Livingston

 

[Tommy Joe]

Tommy,

Actually, to me they were kids, but some of the boys may have been in their early 20's. They were all the surfer crowd from the breakwater in Venice. This was around 1990-91, not so awful long ago.

Did you say you were a cab driver in L.A.? Hummmm

Oh, I'm not saying they weren't kids, only commenting on the way I read your story and imagined it. At first I saw young kids, maybe 10 or 11 years old. That was the image I got when you first described your kids coming home to complain to you about what was going on at the hang-out.

Then, we get to the hang-out and my mental image of the youngsters is altered slightly. I see them now as maybe 15 or 16, young enough to be called innocent, yet old enough to create public mischief.

Then, toward the end of your story, my image of the kids began to change to the point where I saw kids in their late teens and 20s - kids ready willing and more than able to take a full-grown man out into the street and publicly stomp him into the ground. I saw humor in that - the way I read your story and saw the age of the characters change slowly over the course of the story. And it was funny whether you intended it or not - because I see humor in just about everything - other than my own suffering, of course. Even then, once the suffering leaves, I can laugh about that as well.

Yes, I drove a cab in L.A. - and I remember you from the weekly tournaments Arne Satin used to hold at Hollywood Billiards. I would enter those tournaments nearly every week (for maybe a half year), winning only once, and felt that I was playing poorly when I did it. I didn't play regularly, which I suppose came in handy as an excuse for losing.

As a major egotist I must say that I didn't enjoy the tournaments as much as I should. That's because unless I worked through the ranks to where it was just me and the last standing person - unless that happened, I would feel morose that I wasn't playing on table #1 in front of a bunch of people where I would have a chance to show off a little.

Anyway, I remember you from Hollywood Billiards. But my hangout for years was the Penthouse Billiards on Wilcox. I loved that place. The cast of characters was incredible. But nothing lasts forever. Anyway, I'm Tommy Joseph, I knew just about everyone at Hollywood Billiards, but mainly the guys I enjoyed were Jack Moussa and Ted the Vulture. They were funny guys, whether they knew it or not. I recognized your name right off when I first came into the newsgroup and saw your post into the Nagy thread. I believe at that time you were writing for a pool mag. You are the same guy, right?

Tommy Joe

 

[Tommy Joe]

I can appreciate the problems with standup...I've done it three times and that was plenty for me. I was trained by a guy named Gavin Jerome...ever hear of him? I never made any money, but standup sure teaches you a few things. I'm scheduled to do a gig in 5 years at my high school reunion. It's gonna take me that long to prepare.

I'd think being a cab driver would be like having a joke factory in the back of your ride.

Jeff Livingston

First, please let me apologize for sending so many posts into this thread. There, I've said it. Is that enough? Is apologzing enough? Good. Now I can say what I want without feeling bad about it. Let us begin.

It's funny when you said that standup teaches you a few things, because when I first started doing standup in my early 20s - open mics at the newly opened Comedy Store - when I first started doing it I was also hanging out every day at my favorite poolroom where I worked for all the beer I could drink as well as free table time, and was allowed to play even while I was working, as long as the place wasn't too busy. It's funny because I believe that doing standup somehow improved my ability to handle pressure on the pool table (to some degree). But I could feel a certain confidence that I suppose must come to all in the process of learning something. Playing pool may also have made me better on stage.

I also never make money at it and never really tried. The few times I was paid - without asking for it - I felt pressured beyond belief to deliver. I guess I sound like an excuse maker (why not? - I am one) - but I don't want to destroy the humor in my life by turning into a full-time job. Not that I have the talent to jump on stage and make money anytime I want, but I am funny and I'm good on stage. I just don't like the idea of doing it night after endless night for a living. Frankly, I couldn't handle it.

No, I never heard of the guy you mentioned, but there are plenty of accomplished people in standup that I've never heard of. Hell, there are nationally famous tv people I've never heard. And that's fine with me.

I think your thing about doing a gig in 5 years is funny. Five years is a long way down the road. That gives you a lot of time to prepare - and a lot of time to put it off completely. I see this happening, you putting it off until there's only one month left. Then a week. Then you're down to the final night and you're just not ready - you're not sure you can handle it - so you tell them you're sick and can't make it, or have someone send them a note saying you're dead.

Tommy Joe