The Inevitable Question?

Snapshot9

Snapshot9

son of 3 leg 1 eye dog ..
Silver Member
Is there an 'IRS' agent at these tournaments, and if so, what do they require of the players?

More importantly, has the IPT changed the attitude and habits of the pro players as far as their earnings, expenses, and reporting?

Some players, I am sure, take on a businessman's attitude towards their profession, but most do not to any great extent. Are players keeping records of their play, earnings, expenses on computers for tax purposes? Do they go so far as to record Money Matches and expenses associated with it for deductions? Tracking your expenses means getting receipts for everything.

If you lost $6,000 in a money match or ring game, could this be classed as a 'loss of income'? How do they track the $120 in quarters spent playing on a bar table while in a 2 day playing marathon?

I know that the answer to most of these issues is NO, but when you become a TRUE professional, these issues and others come into play.
I know people that track and keep losing tickets from the Greyhound Park for their taxes. Seems to me, if the players were smart, and it was to their advantage, they would pay attention to these things.

Is the IPT affecting players in this area?
 
i think the IRS (and the FBI) would be watching the IPT more closely, especially now that Stanley Ho is involved. He doesn't exactly have a stellar reputation.....
if you thought KT was bad, wait till you hear more about the elusive mr. ho.....
 
Leave it alone, already!

Snapshot9 said:
Is there an 'IRS' agent at these tournaments, and if so, what do they require of the players?

More importantly, has the IPT changed the attitude and habits of the pro players as far as their earnings, expenses, and reporting?

Some players, I am sure, take on a businessman's attitude towards their profession, but most do not to any great extent. Are players keeping records of their play, earnings, expenses on computers for tax purposes? Do they go so far as to record Money Matches and expenses associated with it for deductions? Tracking your expenses means getting receipts for everything.

If you lost $6,000 in a money match or ring game, could this be classed as a 'loss of income'? How do they track the $120 in quarters spent playing on a bar table while in a 2 day playing marathon?

I know that the answer to most of these issues is NO, but when you become a TRUE professional, these issues and others come into play.
I know people that track and keep losing tickets from the Greyhound Park for their taxes. Seems to me, if the players were smart, and it was to their advantage, they would pay attention to these things.

Is the IPT affecting players in this area?
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Do you have nothing better to do in Wichita than to bring up peoples personal matters that is none of our business. This is not pool related and none of your business. This is like asking in the IRS is watching all the people pulling on a slot machine. We should not care or discuss how each individual handles his personal finances. Do you think Nevada knows how to deal with money matters. They deal with milliions daily. This tournament is nothing compared to the high rollers daily. They just hold back 30 percent from non citiizens and they can file for a refund and ciitzens get their money, forms sent to irs and you are responsible to file a return on income just like everyone else. Common sense. Do you even know the law? This tournament has nothing to do with gambling which has different rules. This is income, and you handle it like any other job and deduct what you need. If you get audited then you have to explain or pay more. Simple. But it is none of our business. You are asking a question like pool players are all idiots and do not know how to keep track of things. Yeh 120 quarters, what a joke.
Find something else to write about as I see by your posts is constant, and move this to none pool related or delete it.
 
The IPT is a business, and as such, requires their "contractors" to complete IRS paperwork prior to entering IPT events. I'm sure the IPT will report the money paid out to their employees, just as any other business is required to do. When the players file their taxes, there is going to be reportable income they will need to show on their returns. They are hopefully keeping records of expenses (travel, hotels, meals, etc) related to their participation in these events, since those expenses would be deductable as business expenses.
When I was running one of the qualifiers, I had to get tax forms completed by all the players. I suspect that all the IPT players filled out the forms at the very first player's meeting as well.
Steve
 
nfty9er said:
Do you have nothing better to do in Wichita than to bring up peoples personal matters that is none of our business. This is not pool related and none of your business. This is like asking in the IRS is watching all the people pulling on a slot machine. We should not care or discuss how each individual handles his personal finances. Do you think Nevada knows how to deal with money matters. They deal with milliions daily. This tournament is nothing compared to the high rollers daily. They just hold back 30 percent from non citiizens and they can file for a refund and ciitzens get their money, forms sent to irs and you are responsible to file a return on income just like everyone else. Common sense. Do you even know the law? This tournament has nothing to do with gambling which has different rules. This is income, and you handle it like any other job and deduct what you need. If you get audited then you have to explain or pay more. Simple. But it is none of our business. You are asking a question like pool players are all idiots and do not know how to keep track of things. Yeh 120 quarters, what a joke.
Find something else to write about as I see by your posts is constant, and move this to none pool related or delete it.
Click to expand...

Agreed. Don't pet a sleeping dog, he may wake up and bite you.
 
pooltchr said:
The IPT is a business, and as such, requires their "contractors" to complete IRS paperwork prior to entering IPT events. I'm sure the IPT will report the money paid out to their employees, just as any other business is required to do.
Click to expand...

If you win more than a few hundred at a casino these days they make you fill out a tax form too.

Of course with many of the players being non-US residents I assume they can ignore US tax regulations, but would need to declare in the income when they get home.
 
Snapshot9 said:
... More importantly, has the IPT changed the attitude and habits of the pro players as far as their earnings, expenses, and reporting?
...
Is the IPT affecting players in this area?
Click to expand...
What the players do with their tax returns is their business. As someone who has had to generate 1099s for players, I've been surprised by the number of letters back from the IRS saying, "If you ever have any reason to pay this person again, we have first dibs on the money. You are hereby notified and warned."

I'm sure that the IPT is following all the requirements of the IRS. Players with US SSNs will get 1099s or W-2s. Foreign players will have 30% of their checks withheld unless a special tax treaty -- there are many such treaties with different countries -- says otherwise, and they will receive 1042S forms. If the IPT fails to comply with the IRS regulations, it is responsible for paying both the taxes and penalties.

For more info about forms an withholding, see the table on page 18 of http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/i1099.pdf

And here is something you might not want to know: If you organize a tournament and pay any player $600 or more you are responsible for filing a 1099-misc for that payment. If you fail to file, you are responsible for the taxes and penalties. Or at least that's how I understand the IRS regulations.
 
yep thats the rule, anyone you pay in a business capacity $600 or more for subcontract labor, you have to send them a 1099-misc form. Usually gambling winnings are reported on a w2-g (gambling) form.....im not sure if the limit is $600 on those are not. If you dont file the proper forms to those you pay and youre audited, the penalty can be $50 for each form you were supposed to file.....as well as you lose the deduction for the money paid out (most people go ahead and file the forms late at that point to preserve the deduction, the irs allows this).
To answer the question someone asked about writing off gambling losses..........someone who considered themselves a professional gambler and was turning in all their gambling winnings would be able to deduct their gambling losses as well. Might be tough for someone in the IPT though, the irs might argue that they are pool players and try to count tourney winnings only as income.....in which case gambling winnings would be other income and gambling losses would be deductible up to the amount of winnings on your schedule A (not as good as a direct deduction).
Also, its not written in stone that you have to have receipts......there was a court case....i think it was irs vs. brown......where the guy had lost all his records in a fire, was audited, and the irs disallowed everything because he had no receipts or cancelled checks. The tax court overruled the irs and said you could reconstruct records from memory if need be. That isnt to say that you arent going to have a hard time with the IRS, and there are some things you HAVE to have proof of, such as charitable donations over $250 to any one charity.
 
If I were Kevin Trudeau, I would consider myself to be the father of all IPT members, and I would claim each of the 150 players as dependents on my next tax return.

Creative accounting, anybody?
 
scottycoyote said:
yep thats the rule, anyone you pay in a business capacity $600 or more for subcontract labor, you have to send them a 1099-misc form. ...
Click to expand...
Not for foreign people or entities. If anyone is still interested in this, they should see the IRS publication http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p515.pdf titled Withholding of Tax on Nonresident Aliens and Foreign Entities, which lists how the various tax treaties affect the withholding.
 
I guess ...

the overall point of the post was a 'fly-by'. The main point of the post is,
Has the IPT tour affected pro players' to where they are adopting or practicing their whole profession in a more professional or business-like manner than they did prior to the IPT? I chose the tax area as a prime
example of where they might have been affected? Record keeping, tax reporting, and how far it has affected them.

This overflows into other areas too, just like it does for pro baseball, pro
football players.

I was just wondering if the IPT was effecting the players and their habits in a way that would be considered more professional?
 
AuntyDan said:
Of course with many of the players being non-US residents I assume they can ignore US tax regulations, but would need to declare in the income when they get home.
Click to expand...

You have it backwards for the international players. All the players will (assuming their cash prize was large enough) incur a tax liability in the US. Efren, for example, will lose almost half of his prize to US taxes regardless of his residence in the Phillipines. In general, except in countries that don't have income tax, any income earned in the country is taxed in that country.

For most of the non-american players, they won't have to worry about taxes in their home countries. The US is one of the few countries in the world that taxes its citizens and residents for income earned abroad.
 
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