The Mike Sigel/ Loree JJ match was a bad move

cuetechasaurus

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I'm not an IPT naysayer, I actually have always supported it 100%, although I do know that there are some politics involved for the first year.

I honestly believe that the Mike S. and Loree JJ KOTH match was a MASSIVE mistake in marketing. I think that Mike Sigel's greed got to him, and he convinced Trudeau to let him be mysteriously chosen to play a retired female player, who even in her prime, would have no chance against Allison or Karen.

Keven Trudeau is a marketing genious. I personally think that Kevin's original idea for the first KOTH was to choose two great current players, like Efren, Archer, Strickland, etc. to play against a top female player, either Allison or Karen. The reason why I think that was KT's first idea was because it would be a display of great pool. Although Allison or Karen would probably lose, I don't think they would lose by a huge margin. The public, who mainly plays 8-ball, would be amazed at how well these top players can play the most popular recreational pool game.

Instead, Mike proposed that he would do it, and he would get an easy opponent so it would be a guaranteed win. LJJ happened to be a great choice, because she would be out of stroke from retirement, and even in LJJ's prime, she would get destroyed by Allison or Karen. I think what they were hoping for was a close match, since both of them came out of retirement. But IIRC LJJ only won only 4 games total in both sets combined, and both of them played awful.

That is my entire reasoning for thinking that this was a huge marketing mistake. Try to imagine the first KOTH as a commercial for the IPT. In a commercial, you are supposed to show consumers why they should be interested in your product. What the viewers got was a miss-athon, an absoloutely pathetic match. Lets say you saw a commercial for toothpaste, and it says the toothpaste is guaranteed to whiten teeth. In that same commercial, it shows someone's teeth after brushing with the toothpaste they are advertising, and the teeth are brown. They advertised Mike as the greatest living male player, and LJJ as the greatest living female player. Not only did they lie to everyone, but they showed recreational players that the "best players ever" don't play 8-ball that good.

In the KOTH with Mike vs Efren, I think KT saw another possibility of a blowout, and intervened after Mike lost the first set 8-0, and told Efren to give Mike a chance to win a few games, since there was no way Efren could lose. Efren dumped a few games on purpose, which is obvious to anyone. This was KT's smartest move IMO. Although it's kind of dishonest, he did save face partially. I think the MS/LJJ match hurt the IPT's marketing abilities. They should have showed some champions putting on an amazing display, not some players who can't run 4 balls in a row after such long retirements.
 
Not nice of you to call Efren a cheat.

But then you are a world player and you know Efren better than I do so I suppose that from now on whenever I see Efren play I will have to wonder if he is cheating.
 
Its funny, LJJ only won 4 games against Sigel. Sigel only won 4 games against Efren. :D
 
I saw Efren Dog a few shots also. That is when I started smelling a Rat.;)

Best 2 out of 3..........How come they did not stay with that format for the Vegas tournament? After all, Manalo lost cause of a dry break.
I would have prefered the final stay in the 2 out of 3 format.







:rolleyes:
 
Both matches were pitiful. Even with all the idiotic commentating trying desperately to pump it up, it was so obvious that even a novice could tell that it stunk. They definitely shot themselves in BOTH feet.
 
CaptainHook said:
Best 2 out of 3..........How come they did not stay with that format for the Vegas tournament? After all, Manalo lost cause of a dry break.
I would have prefered the final stay in the 2 out of 3 format.


Keep in mind that this tournament is being shown live throughout Europe. With that in mind, they have to make the format convinient for TV. A single race to eight for the finals would fit nicely into say a two hour time slot, a best two out of three would require a much larger time slot which is something I assume Eurosport wouldn't be willing to give up.

Keep in mind also that they are trying to appeal to the general public, how many people who haven't seen pro pool before would tune in for hours on end to watch their first match? Assuming the match went the three full sets of course.
 
I was looking through an old issue of either Billiards Digest or Pool & Billiard from approximately June '05, and the editor's column mentioned a planned battle-of-the-sexes match between Mike Sigel and Alison Fisher.

Apparently, Alison was supposed to be the original opponent. I assume there must have been some political reasons for the switch.

It is unfortunate because Alison is far more recognizable today to the casual fan than LJJ, and Sigel v Fisher may have garnered more attention.
 
I really doubt it

sniper said:
PARAGRAPH REMOVED:
Keep in mind also that they are trying to appeal to the general public, how many people who haven't seen pro pool before would tune in for hours on end to watch their first match? Assuming the match went the three full sets of course.

I know that KT and the IPT are trying very hard to sell that scenario. But I just don't buy it. Most average pool players haven't even heard of the IPT, let alone Mr. & Mrs. Apple Pie America. Plus the average non-playing person could care less about supporting pool players and gambling. Real Money and Real Hustlers, very colorful for books and movies, but not exactly what most of America wants for their children. Yes, the Color of Money created a lot of fans and made some major money, but they had Tom Cruise and Paul Newman - not Mike Siegal and KT.

There has been exactly NO effort made to attract Mr. & Mrs. Mainstream, no major advertising, no top name, credible people involved as partners, supporters or commentators, just the same old sales pitch to the die hard pool player.
The business plan here is to, once again, tap into the die hard pool player's wallet, nothing to benefit the sport or the spectator. And, unfortunately, that formula has never proved to be acceptable to the general public.
 
sniper said:
Keep in mind that this tournament is being shown live throughout Europe. With that in mind, they have to make the format convinient for TV. A single race to eight for the finals would fit nicely into say a two hour time slot, a best two out of three would require a much larger time slot which is something I assume Eurosport wouldn't be willing to give up.

Keep in mind also that they are trying to appeal to the general public, how many people who haven't seen pro pool before would tune in for hours on end to watch their first match? Assuming the match went the three full sets of course.

That makes sense then. We never get anything "Live". We get, and I quote,
" Due to time restraints we will move ahead in the match to 6 to 6 in a race to 7."

:mad: :mad: :mad:
 
cuetechasaurus said:
I honestly believe that the Mike S. and Loree JJ KOTH match was a MASSIVE mistake in marketing.
IMHO, the Sigel vs. Jones match was nothing but marketing.

KT wanted to be able to advertise the event as one HOF player vs. another HOF player, one male and one female. I don't think the issue of current ability ever entered the picture.

Obviously, Mike S. was a friend of KT and fit the criteria, therefore, he was automatically in.
LJJ fit the criteria, as a HOF player, is still well known and looks good on TV. I'm assuming his second choice would have been Ewa Laurance, for obvious reasons.

The main objective of that match was to get some publicity, which it did. It was not about good pool and they didn't care if the hard core players and fans liked it or not.

I think they accomplished their objectives and, if it leads to better tournaments in the future, I am all for it.
 
jimmyg said:
I know that KT and the IPT are trying very hard to sell that scenario. But I just don't buy it. Most average pool players haven't even heard of the IPT, let alone Mr. & Mrs. Apple Pie America. Plus the average non-playing person could care less about supporting pool players and gambling. Real Money and Real Hustlers, very colorful for books and movies, but not exactly what most of America wants for their children. Yes, the Color of Money created a lot of fans and made some major money, but they had Tom Cruise and Paul Newman - not Mike Siegal and KT.

There has been exactly NO effort made to attract Mr. & Mrs. Mainstream, no major advertising, no top name, credible people involved as partners, supporters or commentators, just the same old sales pitch to the die hard pool player.
The business plan here is to, once again, tap into the die hard pool player's wallet, nothing to benefit the sport or the spectator. And, unfortunately, that formula has never proved to be acceptable to the general public.

This is also true. I got into a argument yesterday with a local Philipino pool player who said "Efren is King of the Hill, he won 200K" and I said, Efren WAS King of the Hill last year, that was taped in December and has been on TV for 2 months. They just had the first tournament of 2006 in Vegas and Efren came in 4th.

He walked away and still told everyone Efren IS King of the Hill.:mad: :mad: :mad:

So here is a Pool player who does not even know what is going on with the IPT. The Vegas tournament had zero press here.:(



:)
 
CaptainHook said:
This is also true. I got into a argument yesterday with a local Philipino pool player who said "Efren is King of the Hill, he won 200K" and I said, Efren WAS King of the Hill last year, that was taped in December and has been on TV for 2 months. They just had the first tournament of 2006 in Vegas and Efren came in 4th.

He walked away and still told everyone Efren IS King of the Hill.:mad: :mad: :mad:

So here is a Pool player who does not even know what is going on with the IPT. The Vegas tournament had zero press here.
Actually, the other guy was right.

IIRC, there is only one King of the Hill tournament per year and Efren Reyes is still King until the next King of the Hill tournament, scheduled for December 12-17, 2006.
Check the IPT schedule.
http://www.internationalpooltour.com/ipt_content/event_schedule/default.asp
 
CaptainHook said:
This is also true. I got into a argument yesterday with a local Philipino pool player who said "Efren is King of the Hill, he won 200K" and I said, Efren WAS King of the Hill last year, that was taped in December and has been on TV for 2 months. They just had the first tournament of 2006 in Vegas and Efren came in 4th.

He walked away and still told everyone Efren IS King of the Hill.:mad: :mad: :mad:

So here is a Pool player who does not even know what is going on with the IPT. The Vegas tournament had zero press here.:(



:)

I believe he is still King of the Hill until the next KOH event. :confused:
 
Rich R. said:
Actually, the other guy was right.

IIRC, there is only one King of the Hill tournament per year and Efren Reyes is still King until the next King of the Hill tournament, scheduled for December 12-17, 2006.
Check the IPT schedule.
http://www.internationalpooltour.com/ipt_content/event_schedule/default.asp

Incorrect. I started a thread about this because I thought that's the way it should be, but that's not how it is.

The KOH is the leading money winner on tour. Efren's KOH prize $$ goes towards LAST YEAR'S total. So the prize money doesn't even apply towards him being able to defend his title as KOH.

It seems to me that the previous KOH should at least have a head start on the money list with the $250K....but that's not how it's being done.

Cheers,
RC
 
sixpack said:
Incorrect. I started a thread about this because I thought that's the way it should be, but that's not how it is.

The KOH is the leading money winner on tour. Efren's KOH prize $$ goes towards LAST YEAR'S total. So the prize money doesn't even apply towards him being able to defend his title as KOH.

It seems to me that the previous KOH should at least have a head start on the money list with the $250K....but that's not how it's being done.

Cheers,
RC

Word!!!!!!!!!!!!

:)
 
sixpack said:
It seems to me that the previous KOH should at least have a head start on the money list with the $250K....but that's not how it's being done.

Cheers,
RC

Explain to me how that would be fair to the 109 players who are IPT members but had no chance to qualify or earn a spot in the KOH last year. Not only that, but the other fourty players in the tournament also earned money. Should they be given a head start on the other 109 players by letting them count their money too?

I would like to see the previous year's KOH winner be the KOH for the next year too, but I can see a problem if something happened (illness or injury) and the KOH wasn't in the top 41 money earners for the year. That might create a situation like this year where the final was anti-climactic because the ill or injured player was totally outclassed(assuming the player was able to play by the time the KOH came along).
 
Mike Sigel was an embarrassment against Efren Rayes. You had to feel bad for Efren because it was no contest and you could tell Efren was uncomfortable with how poorly Sigel played. It was a slap in the face to Efren to have to play the biggest pool event on national TV and have his opponent playing like a chump and babbling during the whole thing making excuses for his playing poorly. The announcing was just as painful to listen to. They tried to hype it up but when you get an 8-0 the first set it is usless. Imagin how Efren must have felt when he had to delibertly miss some shots to try and get Sigel into the match. Efren deserved more respect than this match provided. Efren is a great respectfull champion who did not need to be belittled with this poor matchup.
 
jjinfla said:
Not nice of you to call Efren a cheat.

But then you are a world player and you know Efren better than I do so I suppose that from now on whenever I see Efren play I will have to wonder if he is cheating.

Are you being serious? I was talking about Kevin Trudeau, since he obviously told Efren to do that. I don't think Efren really had a choice, since Mike and KT are running the show.
 
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