The "new" 9-ball: Changing the game to reflect the new equipment
- Thread starter Shawn Armstrong
- Start date
You should be allowed to use a jump rod. It's a skill, not the cue. Therefore, the same skill applies to the rod as the jump cue. If it's a skill when the cue is 58", or 52" or 41", then length is irrelevant.Southpaw said:
Wonder what kind of response I'll get on this.
John Barton said:
Okay, well I will put it another way - In my poolroom, the line that separates those that like jump cues and those that don't is pretty distinct. Straight pool players typically do not like jump cues. Players who began prior to 1990 also do not like jump cues.
John Barton
New member
Southpaw said:
You can use a jump cue. I don't know what a gimmicked one is. You're more than welcome to use the legal tool that has been developed for the jump shot.
I am sure you can play, the difference may be that I can kick very well and can easily play entire matches without a jump cue but can you play when you lose the kick shot?
I think that you will find that you don't like your options to be so limited. But I could be wrong. In any event I always have $1000 to throw away in order to learn something.
John Barton said:
Meucci vs Scruggs? Sure. Here's the deal, though. If it's "the cue", you get to use a brand new Elkmaster tip on the Scruggs that I install fresh to jump. I get to use the Meucci, except with no tip. Do we have a bet? The cue hasn't changed - just the end of it.
Like I said, the cue hasn't changed. If it's the cue, you'll man up.
Jude Rosenstock said:
Actually, what I most disagree with in your thinking, not only regarding jump cues, but how rules should be made, and so on, is your apparently socialist, or New York liberal bent.
You want to win, and want rules made to help you do that. I like the jump cue rule; you don't. Harmony isn't part of the equation, no doubt.
You want to coerce everyone to play without jump cues, and bring a so-called purist ideology to try to make it happen. I much prefer liberty to forcing people into a cookie cutter approach to pool.
Guess we won't agree on this one
Flex
LOL, in this case, what is your opinion on jumping with full cues with phenolic tips? Im guessing you are ok with this. This is still worlds easier then jumping with a full leather tipped cue.Shawn Armstrong said:
Shawn Armstrong said:
I don't think there is a performance ceiling just like with baseball bats and golf clubs. Same thing with "sweet spot" for tennis racket.
Yes, you are correct, skill can only be determined by standardized performance quality.
I used to use a jump cue also, but to me it isn't pool. It's a gimmick to make money and that's all it is. If you have one of these gimmick jump sticks and someone shows you how to use it in about 5 minutes you can jump balls even if you can't run a rack of 9 ball starting with ball in hand. I think jump cues should be banned from the game, but not jump shots. I agree that a player should be allowed to shoot a jump shot with their playing cue or break cue. I work on my kicking game and I didn't learn how to kick in 5 minutes and I hate to play in a tournament and have someone beat me with a short jump cue. It just isn't skilled pool IMO.seven said:
SCCues said:
LOL, they will just tell you that you're being a sore loser.
I've already said that full lengths with phenolic tips are fine. In case you didn't get it, I AM AGAINST JUMP CUES. You know, those short cues that people have? Like, the 41" models? That are really light?Icon of Sin said:
If you can jump full length cue with a phenolic tip, go for it. I have yet to see someone shoot dart stroke effectively with a 58" cue.
Look at it this way, I have seen Mike Massey take a jump cue in each hand and jump balls with one hand (both hands at the same time) and make shots...How can anyone say that using a jump cue with a phenolic tip is tougher to master???? Lets see him do that with a full cue with a leather tip. Jump cues were designed to make it EASIER to jump.
Southpaw
Southpaw
OK, so now what if someone uses the normal overhand stroke with a jump cue. Is that ok?Shawn Armstrong said:
Let me get this right, you are against jump cues and the dart stroke?
Flex said:
Um, wow. I put down my place of residence and you immediately assume my political beliefs and use that bit of information as a means of attacking me? That's low. You have no idea how offensive that is. I'm not going to bother defending my patriotism or the patriotism of New Yorkers especially in a thread about jump cues. You have now stooped to a level of stupidity that can only be rivaled by a rock, sir. Have a nice day.
A) It's Mike Massey for god's sake. He does that shit for a living.Southpaw said:
B) I have seen a pro one handed jump a full ball with a full tipped leather cue
C) No one is saying Jump cues are "tougher to master"
D) Of course they were designed to make it easier to jump, other wise they would have called them Useless cues.
John Barton
New member
Shawn Armstrong said:
Then your wife must love it that you are so easy to beat.
Um, your HERO Grady Matthews is the one who proposed and even held a 9-ball tournament using GRADY'S RULES which forbade safeties.
The jump cue was not disallowed at any point in time either, jump cues as such did not formally exist beyond experimental stages until the late 80's. You completely IGNORE the FACT that there was NO REAL NEED for jump cues until the advent of one foul nine ball.
You're really reaching into the bottom of the barrel here Shawn. It must SUCK to have EVERY point you make SHOT DOWN with FACT.
The reason that there are length/weight/diameter parameters on cues is because people who are MUCH smarter than you and I have looked at the equipment and decided on what best fits the game.
Jump rods were not pool cues. They were suitable for making a ball hop and that was it. Jump CUES are instruments which all the player to add spin, control speed, and trajectory. Today's jump CUES are made to the specifications of the World Pool Association and the Billiard Congress of America's rules.
Personally though, I don't care. if you want to shoot pool with a strand of spaghetti it's fine with me as long as it does not harm the equipment or distract from play or provide mechanical aid in execution/aiming. Other than that feel free to bring whatever you want, shaft jump, jump rods, whatever. I don't care. I am pretty sure that if you follow the guidelines that you won't find anything that helps you play better other than what's already out there.
Are you related to my wife, too?Icon of Sin said:
I don't care if you stand on a chair, put the cue over your shoulder, and jump off the chair to accomplish the jump shot. FULL LENGTH CUE - either your player or your breaker. If it's a skill, you can perform it the same way you hit a draw stroke or a follow shot. Otherwise, I'm packing a Predator Z2 shaft for long draw shots and super follow shots, a stiff cue like a Gilbert for all my stun shots, a 14" jump rod for my jump shots, a short cue that's front heavy (brass insert) for when I have to jack up over a ball. Oh, yeah, and a set of Earl's finger extensions to make the bridge easier. You might think this is stupid, but think about it. They've introduced a cue that helps with a SPECIFIC shot in the game. What's to say I can't start playing with 5 specific cues, seeing as I like the way they play certain shots better than other cues?
Jude Rosenstock said:
I lived in New York for over 10 years, and know the area and general mentality well. I know plenty of socialistic, liberal Republicans from New York, not just Democrats. Your thought process in regards to rule making is typical of the socialistic, New York liberals I know so well. Not trying to be offensive, just saying what I think, and did not intend to offend you. As you took offense, I apologize. Nevertheless, I didn't bring patriotism into the question, you did. I have no reason to doubt your patriotism, and expect you are just as patriotic, if not more so, than I am.
Perhaps what I experienced in New York opened my eyes to a different way of seeing the world. I well remember the electricity in the City, the electricity of big ideas, and the way those of different provenance were often looked down upon. That pseudo-elite way of being may win elections, and perhaps even an argument here and there, but doesn't always persuade those who are targeted.
To people not from New York, many New Yorkers are brash. Can't say as I agree with that, but many people hold that view.
Jude, it's been a pleasure debating these ideas with you.
Flex