**The Oficial "What you hate about Amsterdam Billiards NYC'' thread**

BrooklynJay said:
my math might be off but it still doesn't add up.

by my estimates the season brings in about $30K+ for abc. (30 teams, 4 players each, $35 for registration, $15 a week for green fees...)

payout is around ($900+$900...+$400...carry the 2...) less than a third of what they take in?

now i'm all for them making money but that's a little bit excessive no?

especially when there's no real perks (paying for practice time? c'mon) and a good portion of people are eating and drinking there which is also a bit higher than average prices.

seems off to me.

i also think abc plays a bit too easy. pockets are huge and the tables are pretty fast. rails are super bouncy too. i also feel the tables have gone down in quality. i think there's been a recent change in who's maintaining the table conditions, trying to save money i think, and it shows.

i think a lot of people dislike abc but there really isn't another choice in the city for a nice, clean room with decent conditions. it would be great if another room opened up that was similar (or if soho billiards would just step up and replace the tables). i wonder how much business abc would lose.
Click to expand...

The $15 per week is labeled as a green fee which means that goes to the room to pay for the tables and league management (John Leyman). The only money you should be including for the prize fund is $35 registration fee each player pays at the beginning of the season.

1st place - $2500
2nd place - $1500
3rd/4th place - $900/$900
5th-8th place - $400/$400/$400/$400

That totals $7,400 not including the $1400 that is also allocated to the winning team's airfare to Las Vegas which makes it a grand sum of $8,800.

With 190 players paying $35 per person, that equals $6,650 so the club actually eats about $2,150.
 
Last edited:
smokeandapancak said:
Y'all that are moaning about those rates should check out the ones in my home room...
8 Euro an hour off peak
almost 10 Euro on peak

consider the current conversion rates at 60 some odd cent....scheesh..!!

Glad I dont pay the GP's prices :D
Click to expand...


where i play in Munich its 10 euro/hr, therea are only 3 tables but they are nice and well kept, its a video poker arcade with intersen cafe and 3 tables, I like it but its $15 USD/hr to play. In hollywood its about $12 an hour I think, Vegas I cant remember what the rate is, I do remeber in 1985 the day rate was $1.50/hr in Stockton Ca.
 
I heard from a knowledgable person that Amsterdam billiards pays 50k plus rent per month.

I do not know much about running a room but if you are nearly 2k in the whole before you start the day then you need the hourly rate to be up there a bit.

I also hear it is a great environment and well worth the cost to play. When I get to NYC I will definitely hit some balls at Amsterdam Billiards. I guess if you do not like then maybe you ought to play somewhere else.
 
Jude Rosenstock said:
The $15 per week is labeled as a green fee which means that goes to the room to pay for the tables and league management (John Leyman). The only money you should be including for the prize fund is $35 registration fee each player pays at the beginning of the season.

1st place - $2500
2nd place - $1500
3rd/4th place - $900/$900
5th-8th place - $400/$400/$400/$400

That totals $7,400 not including the $1400 that is also allocated to the winning team's airfare to Las Vegas which makes it a grand sum of $8,800.

With 190 players paying $35 per person, that equals $6,650 so the club actually eats about $2,150.
Click to expand...

when abc charges the most expensive green fees i've ever seen for a league, it's now $16 per player (reason they raised the price is because they have to keep the air conditioner running or something like that), you would think you get at least a perk, free practice time before matches, or some of the money would be applied towards the prizes.

if you're okay with the prizes and the green fees they charge, cool, i personally think it's highway robbery.

john leyman huh? runs the tri-states too right? explains a lot...:rolleyes:
 
BrooklynJay said:
when abc charges the most expensive green fees i've ever seen for a league, it's now $16 per player (reason they raised the price is because they have to keep the air conditioner running or something like that), you would think you get at least a perk, free practice time before matches, or some of the money would be applied towards the prizes.

if you're okay with the prizes and the green fees they charge, cool, i personally think it's highway robbery.

john leyman huh? runs the tri-states too right? explains a lot...:rolleyes:
Click to expand...

Please reread my post. I mean, several of us last season did exactly as you did. We sat down and calculated exactly how much money was being generated from the league versus how much was getting paid out. First, the club is not exactly making a huge profit from this. Once you factor in what would normally be made from the hourly rate, paying for staff and allocating prizes, there really isn't anything left. Second, it's EXTREMELY rare that 25% of a league gets prizes. Seriously, I can't think of any other that does this. EIGHT teams were paid last season. Third, there ARE other benefits for being in the league such as free time during registration week and 6 league parties a year when they serve free alcohol.

I'm not saying it's unfair to make accusations but you're going to have to substantiate your claims. Your statement about Leyman and the Tri-State Tour is just mean. You're not citing anything. I don't play in the Tri-State because it's really not meant for players of my level but as for prizes, I think they do a GREAT job in providiing competitions for lower rank players. When was the last time you heard of a C player making 1k at a tournament anywhere else?
 
Jude Rosenstock said:
Please reread my post. I mean, several of us last season did exactly as you did. We sat down and calculated exactly how much money was being generated from the league versus how much was getting paid out. First, the club is not exactly making a huge profit from this. Once you factor in what would normally be made from the hourly rate, paying for staff and allocating prizes, there really isn't anything left. Second, it's EXTREMELY rare that 25% of a league gets prizes. Seriously, I can't think of any other that does this. EIGHT teams were paid last season. Third, there ARE other benefits for being in the league such as free time during registration week and 6 league parties a year when they serve free alcohol.
Click to expand...

again, if you think the payout is fair, that for the amount of money players put into the league equals the benefits that the players are getting, fine. that's YOUR opinion. i have mine. mrjordan who started the thread has his. there's obviously people who don't think abc is the greatest room in the world.

let's agree to disagree.

you indicated that you worked at abc at one time. do you currently play for free all the time? i would think this makes your opinion a bit bias towards abc being so great.

if i'm incorrect about the above i do apologize - i don't know you personally but this is what i've been told.
 
Last edited:
I hate the snotty "cliquey" ness attitude that permeates the air. Also the ass kissing of certain people because of who their spouse is. Can't tell if it's more or less than when it was Corner. I could care less if they close down, I'll take B'way Billiards over ABC any day of the week.
 
Jude Rosenstock said:
Please reread my post. I mean, several of us last season did exactly as you did. We sat down and calculated exactly how much money was being generated from the league versus how much was getting paid out. First, the club is not exactly making a huge profit from this. Once you factor in what would normally be made from the hourly rate, paying for staff and allocating prizes, there really isn't anything left. Second, it's EXTREMELY rare that 25% of a league gets prizes. Seriously, I can't think of any other that does this. EIGHT teams were paid last season. Third, there ARE other benefits for being in the league such as free time during registration week and 6 league parties a year when they serve free alcohol.

I'm not saying it's unfair to make accusations but you're going to have to substantiate your claims. Your statement about Leyman and the Tri-State Tour is just mean. You're not citing anything. I don't play in the Tri-State because it's really not meant for players of my level but as for prizes, I think they do a GREAT job in providiing competitions for lower rank players. When was the last time you heard of a C player making 1k at a tournament anywhere else?
Click to expand...
if "free time" meaning that they give out like maybe 3 tables per night during that week for 3 hours and have like 30 people taking turns on it, I would have to say thanks but no thanks.
 
Last edited:
I love Amsterdam. But I do have one complaint. Their house cues REALLY suck. There's just no excuse for this. Is it really that hard or that expensive to make sure the house cues have decent tips? I mean, c'mon.

Now I know that the rationalization must be "Well, serious players bring their own cues. And less serious players won't know that they're playing with bad cues." But that's not entirely true. Sometimes I just want to shoot on a whim. Why do I have to deal with FLAT as hell, mushroomed tips????

If anyone can get this situation fixed, that would be awesome!! Otherwise, Amsterdam rocks!!
 
BrooklynJay said:
again, if you think the payout is fair, that for the amount of money players put into the league equals the benefits that the players are getting, fine. that's YOUR opinion. i have mine. mrjordan who started the thread has his. there's obviously people who don't think abc is the greatest room in the world.

let's agree to disagree.

you indicated that you worked at abc at one time. do you currently play for free all the time? i would think this makes your opinion a bit bias towards abc being so great.

if i'm incorrect about the above i do apologize - i don't know you personally but this is what i've been told.
Click to expand...


BrooklynJay, I haven't asked about your personal information so I don't completely understand why my own personal information would be relevant. However, if you think my opinion is tainted because of my relationship with the club, I'll have you know I can often be its biggest critic. Any of the employees and the owners will be quick to tell you that I will voice what I think whenever I deem it appropriate. I do this because I care about the club and its leagues. Like I said, these are friends of mine. If I think what they're doing is not in step with what's right, I tell them.

Because I continue to do occasional work for Amsterdam, they have provided me with some benefits. I do not care to disclose the details as I believe them to be private (at least, not appropriate for forum posting) and I hope that you can respect that.

I mean, what is the point of this thread? Do people want things to be better or is this just a place to talk smack? Amsterdam Billiards has provided New York City with a safe and upscale poolroom for over 15 years now. Yes, the prices are above par with Queens which is consistent with everything else you can compare between the two boroughs however, you still choose to go. I think that says a lot.
 
Jude Rosenstock said:
BrooklynJay, I haven't asked about your personal information so I don't completely understand why my own personal information would be relevant. However, if you think my opinion is tainted because of my relationship with the club, I'll have you know I can often be its biggest critic. Any of the employees and the owners will be quick to tell you that I will voice what I think whenever I deem it appropriate. I do this because I care about the club and its leagues. Like I said, these are friends of mine. If I think what they're doing is not in step with what's right, I tell them.

Because I continue to do occasional work for Amsterdam, they have provided me with some benefits. I do not care to disclose the details as I believe them to be private (at least, not appropriate for forum posting) and I hope that you can respect that.

I mean, what is the point of this thread? Do people want things to be better or is this just a place to talk smack? Amsterdam Billiards has provided New York City with a safe and upscale poolroom for over 15 years now. Yes, the prices are above par with Queens which is consistent with everything else you can compare between the two boroughs however, you still choose to go. I think that says a lot.
Click to expand...

the main complaint has been how expensive amsterdam is. if your relationship with amsterdam and the deal you worked out with them in anyway makes amsterdam less expensive (free food, free pool time, free drinks) then you're not having the same experience or suffering the same problems as a normal regular full price playing customer.

i wasn't asking for details, that's your personal business, i was just pointing out that your opinion, while valid as everybody else's, may be tainted by the arrangement you have - that's all. (kind of like when an analyst on msnbc starts talking about a stock and they have to let you know if he's holding any of it or not)

and it does sound like you have more influence there than a normal customer. i would be curious to see what would happen to some of the people here if they voiced to the owner or staff changes that they feel are "right". ("excuse me mister owner but how come your own house pro's tour doesn't have a stop here in what is considered his home room?") would they be listened to, as you are, or be asked to take their business elsewhere? just a thought.

i agree that there really isn't another room to go to that offers a clean atmosphere, that isn't too clubby/bar like ala slate, with decent, not great, playing conditions in the city. abc knows this - and is why they treat customers the way they do. (the one's not in the "club") if people had another choice that was on par with abc i wonder how many would continue to go?

for me, it's mostly the 7 train out to masters.
 
BrooklynJay said:
the main complaint has been how expensive amsterdam is. - snip
Click to expand...

What are the prices of other pool rooms in the same area? I feel like I need to defend the price issue here, as I am from Boston and the prices there are just as high for the chain bars/pool rooms. Boston Billiards and Jillians are no cheaper. Just went out with a bunch of people from work to a Boston Billiards in Worcester (about 30 miles West of Boston), an hour of pool and one Guiness was about $20. Now if the issue was with bad equipment for that price, I can see that. The place I play at in RI, which costs me at most $9 for all day or all night, has better kept equipment than the chain clubs that offer cheaper balls, bad house cues (which I use for breaking so they do matter a bit), and generally dirtier tables with quite a few dead cushions. Plus they tend to have less room around the tables for all the sofas, tables, people not watching what they are doing, wait staff circling all over the place getting in your way and so on.
 
Jude Rosenstock said:
...I'm not saying it's unfair to make accusations but you're going to have to substantiate your claims. Your statement about Leyman and the Tri-State Tour is just mean. You're not citing anything. I don't play in the Tri-State because it's really not meant for players of my level but as for prizes, I think they do a GREAT job in providiing competitions for lower rank players. When was the last time you heard of a C player making 1k at a tournament anywhere else?
Click to expand...

Jude-

What exactly does this comment mean???

Its not meant for players of your level??? So I guess you play better than Ginky? Frankie Hernandez? Shin Park? Mika Immonen? Because they play tri-state events.

And if you don't play Tri-state, can you explain why your name is 8th on the list of the 'Open/Pro' class for this year?

http://www.thetristatetour.com/results/2008/poy.htm
 
pharaoh68 said:
Jude-

What exactly does this comment mean???

Its not meant for players of your level??? So I guess you play better than Ginky? Frankie Hernandez? Shin Park? Mika Immonen? Because they play tri-state events.

And if you don't play Tri-state, can you explain why your name is 8th on the list of the 'Open/Pro' class for this year?

http://www.thetristatetour.com/results/2008/poy.htm
Click to expand...


No, it simply means most of the Tri-State events are for A level and below. There has only been one Open event this year and there are none immediately scheduled.


EDIT: I take that back. There is one coming up in March. Two Open events per year versus 40 some odd events for the average C player is a slight disparity. That is simply what I meant.
 
Last edited:
Irish634 said:
Ross, did they look like this?
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=62394
Click to expand...
close, but it was a bit more like....

rutgers_women_basketball_team_1.jpg
 
Thanks for the read. It's a classic example of the dynamics of a forum thread :) Amsterdam IS expensive. Everything in Manhattan is expensive. There's no denying it, no rationalizing it. It is what it is. I don't get the point of justifying it's pricing. It won't make the pinch in your wallet feel any better.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top