The PHANTOM cue by Tim Scruggs
- Thread starter Jon P. Nusbaum
- Start date
pharaoh68
Banned
Jon P. Nusbaum said:
John-
You're better off trying to sell this to a Scruggs collector because they can at least find value in this. Most of the rest of us however, do not. If I were going to spend that kind of money, I'd go for a Mottey. The points would have veneers. I could get inlays. I could do things with it to make it attractive. Or I'd buy a Southwest. Six points with veneers and a classic design. On top of that, many will argue that a Southwest is hnads down the best player's cue out there. This cue is just unattractive and extremely basic to place such a high dollar value on it.
In Tim and Mike's Defense
Ok let's look at it this way. It's being billed as a players cue, pretense meaning more of a gambler's or money player's cue. If this cue plays as good as it's being described, then 2100.00 is not bad at all. You'd probably get your money back as an investment on the tables. And we all know plenty of players that put up the Franklins' on the back tables. At least I do.
It certainly doensn't look like a casual players cue for 2100.00 dollars. In fact if some spent that kinda dough on a stick, you'd probably wished in a short time you'da got something fancier. Sorry folks, I see DOLLAR signs$$$$$ when I see this cue.
Ok let's look at it this way. It's being billed as a players cue, pretense meaning more of a gambler's or money player's cue. If this cue plays as good as it's being described, then 2100.00 is not bad at all. You'd probably get your money back as an investment on the tables. And we all know plenty of players that put up the Franklins' on the back tables. At least I do.
It certainly doensn't look like a casual players cue for 2100.00 dollars. In fact if some spent that kinda dough on a stick, you'd probably wished in a short time you'da got something fancier. Sorry folks, I see DOLLAR signs$$$$$ when I see this cue.
i like it for 2 reasons 1. i am a player the looks of my cue dont mean a thing thats why i play with a sneaky pete. and 2. if scruggs is billing this as the ultimate players cue it must hit a ton
i do kinda agree about the phantom above the wrap. other than that it looks to be a finely crafted cue that i would be proud to carry in my case.
i do kinda agree about the phantom above the wrap. other than that it looks to be a finely crafted cue that i would be proud to carry in my case.
Hey i love T.Scruggs cues and M.Cochran i dont know and i would assume he is an accomplished cue builder but this i think is rediculous no matter how you doll up the explanation this is a nice cue but that price is stupid........And also the way you tell of it being hand made you make it sound like other builders are mass producing their cues and T.S is the only one building them by hand , i think you are putting down other cue builders........ I M O .....Jon P. Nusbaum said:
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it is a tough call I'd say? I would like to have a searing cue but a converted sneaky pete for 13-1500??? or when P2's came out, straight black, no rings, but it was a predator? Who talked about deflection before predator brought it up anyways, create a problem, solve a problem make some money, Scruggs seems to be a reputable builder, should out hit some good cues, If not, is there a trial period, seems fair for the money and the design?
it is a tough call I'd say? I would like to have a searing cue but a converted sneaky pete for 13-1500??? or when P2's came out, straight black, no rings, but it was a predator? Who talked about deflection before predator brought it up anyways, create a problem, solve a problem make some money, Scruggs seems to be a reputable builder, should out hit some good cues, If not, is there a trial period, seems fair for the money and the design?
Tim Scruggs "Phantom"
Production Schedule for the next 2 months has been filled.
Tim & Mike have both read your comments and appreciate your input.
Fabrication Details and Pricing have been set by Tim & Mike and will remain intact. They recognize many of you as existing customers, and if you have any further questions about the Fabrication Details that I have not answered fully, please don't hesitate to call me or them direct.
CuesNThings 301-452-3600
Tim Scruggs 410-247-1231
Thank to All. JP
Production Schedule for the next 2 months has been filled.
Tim & Mike have both read your comments and appreciate your input.
Fabrication Details and Pricing have been set by Tim & Mike and will remain intact. They recognize many of you as existing customers, and if you have any further questions about the Fabrication Details that I have not answered fully, please don't hesitate to call me or them direct.
CuesNThings 301-452-3600
Tim Scruggs 410-247-1231
Thank to All. JP
Aren't they all?
Seems to me that EVERY cue that they put out should reflect what they have learned in cuemaking. Seems also, that they have been working together on cues and it would seem logical that they have communicated what they have learned. I understand the theory of the cue- choice materials and workmanship for a particular use- that is playing-
But it seems that most cuemakers would stress playability at the forefront. Seems like Scruggs has been doing it for years.
I would highly doubt that they are using substandard wood on their other cues- seems like shaft wood is really important.
If the market will bear it then so be it. I like the cue- I do not like the "phantom" on the points- I like the red and black. Lizard wrap is a nice touch.
Players cue has always, to me, meant the lower end of the pricing spectrum for a cuemakers. Perhaps this is so.
Jon P. Nusbaum said:
Seems to me that EVERY cue that they put out should reflect what they have learned in cuemaking. Seems also, that they have been working together on cues and it would seem logical that they have communicated what they have learned. I understand the theory of the cue- choice materials and workmanship for a particular use- that is playing-
But it seems that most cuemakers would stress playability at the forefront. Seems like Scruggs has been doing it for years.
I would highly doubt that they are using substandard wood on their other cues- seems like shaft wood is really important.
If the market will bear it then so be it. I like the cue- I do not like the "phantom" on the points- I like the red and black. Lizard wrap is a nice touch.
Players cue has always, to me, meant the lower end of the pricing spectrum for a cuemakers. Perhaps this is so.
John - first, let me say that I have the highest respect for Tim and Mike and their knowledge and ability to produce a superior product. But, this one seems to be off the mark. First, the "Phantom" in the ring above the wrap is just silly and doesn't need to be there. If it is supposed to be a players cue, why advertise what it is and who built it. Second, it looks to be about a 800 - 1000 dollar cue, regardless of the shaft/butt taper etc. Sorry, just my take on it. When you first posted about the cue, I was certainly not expecting what materialized.
Jon P. Nusbaum said:
JUST MY OPINION, BUT SHOULDN'T TIM BE USING THIS KNOWLEDGE AND DESIGN ON ALL OF HIS CUES, IF HE FEELS THIS WILL BE THE BEST PLAYING CUE HE MAKES.
THIS CUE MAKES ME NOT WANT TO OWN ANY OTHER SCRUGGS CUE NOW, BECAUSE HE ISN'T PUTTING ALL HE KNOWS INTO THEM. IF I WAS PAYING 3500 OR MORE FOR A CUSTOM SCRUGGS, I'D WANT IT TO PLAY THE BEST HE KNOWS HOW TO MAKE IT PLAY. YOU MAKE IT SOUND LIKE HE DOESN'T DO THAT. THAT IF I WANT THE BEST PLAYING SCRUGGS THAT I HAVE TO BU THIS PLAIN $2100.00 CUE?????????????
I agree
I agree as I indicated in my previous post. EVERY cue that they have put out should be a reflection of what they have learned and communicated to each other. The way this is portrayed is that some of their cues are NOT the cumulative efforts of cuemaking and choice materials.
I still would love to own a Scruggs- not the newer ACME ss jointed thin cues but one of the beefier older cues with a SS piloted joint.
For that type of money you could have just about any cuemaker make you whatever you wanted. The only thing that has not been said is that there is probably a markup as the cue is going through a dealer. I have no problems with this as long as Scruggs has set the maximum retail price.
The build up and the subsequent marketing probably has not had the effect the dealer wanted but even bad advertising can be effective.
FAST_N_LOOSE said:
I agree as I indicated in my previous post. EVERY cue that they have put out should be a reflection of what they have learned and communicated to each other. The way this is portrayed is that some of their cues are NOT the cumulative efforts of cuemaking and choice materials.
I still would love to own a Scruggs- not the newer ACME ss jointed thin cues but one of the beefier older cues with a SS piloted joint.
For that type of money you could have just about any cuemaker make you whatever you wanted. The only thing that has not been said is that there is probably a markup as the cue is going through a dealer. I have no problems with this as long as Scruggs has set the maximum retail price.
The build up and the subsequent marketing probably has not had the effect the dealer wanted but even bad advertising can be effective.
Stop and think
Could this be a early warning of 1/1 cues only from Timi and if you want one of his cues from now on you might have to buy what he makes! And if he gets to decide the construction then you might be getting more than your moneys worth because cue builders can only do so much when restrained by costumers choices in construction. This is why he will say this cue is a player it is made the way Timi and Mike would build a cue if they had their way not yours . No one told Balabushka or Szamboti how to build the cues they made other than weight, legnth, anf ferrel size so welcome to the old days everything old is new again a builder making a cue back to the future!
Nick Serdula
Could this be a early warning of 1/1 cues only from Timi and if you want one of his cues from now on you might have to buy what he makes! And if he gets to decide the construction then you might be getting more than your moneys worth because cue builders can only do so much when restrained by costumers choices in construction. This is why he will say this cue is a player it is made the way Timi and Mike would build a cue if they had their way not yours . No one told Balabushka or Szamboti how to build the cues they made other than weight, legnth, anf ferrel size so welcome to the old days everything old is new again a builder making a cue back to the future!
Nick Serdula
nick serdula said:
How is this a warning of one of one cues? The description said that right now, it's the weight that can be changed and adjusted.
That means if I buy one at 18.5 oz, someone will have the same looking cue but at 19 oz.
Going back to my original post waaaaay back in the beginning...it would a one of one when the next Phantom comes out with a different color logo. Or maybe it can called Phantom Menace, Phantom II.
Again, I just want to make sure that everyone knows that I have Scruggs cues in my collection, love their work but this cue just isn't worth it. There's nothing special about it. I'm still trying to figure out why this cue is named?!?
Makes it feel so much like a production cue with a name on it.
Take the text off of the points and a G off the price, and I would consider this cue more seriously.
I like the idea and most of the execution. Love the wrap and butt... But I say go 100% sneaky or go fancy... don't split the design and tag it with a high price.
I like the idea and most of the execution. Love the wrap and butt... But I say go 100% sneaky or go fancy... don't split the design and tag it with a high price.
Tim Scruggs "Phantom"
I have received a message from an AZ member asking about the "Phantom" name. A few others have questioned the use of a name,so I'am pleased to offer some insite into this project.
When working out details of the cue, all of us read an article about a small company producing a "watch named Phantom" that was cutting edge/latest technology. It was a catchy name, Tim liked it, so we have named a cue. Some of you have questioned this, but like many other cuemakers that have had "Special Editions" and "Anniversery" cues, Tim now has a special edition.
Tim's good friend,Dan Janes, Joss Cues, has used logos and decorations above the wrap, and Tim & Mike also like this position and that is where the logo is placed on each of these cues.
Many of you responding have compared the Phantom to a sneaky pete cue. It is not. It is a custom cue, with hand cut Points,Forearm,Handle, and Butt. Special compound tapers have been used in both cue and shaft construction.
Tim & Mike have always crafted their cues to the upmost in quality. They just decided to build this cue with ,may I say "Cutting Edge" ideas that combined would make in their opinion, a fantastic hitting cue,testing their knowledge and skill. They always offer all of this knowledge to their customers, who in turn choose how their cue is to be constructed,but this cue has their personal desired construction details,"their dream hitter",offered to the public.
Last, many of you have mentioned cost. Tim & Mike base their pricing on the cost of materials,labor costs, and overhead like all businesses. This cue may be in a price range not comfortable for all, but those who reach this level,will own the best.
These comments are offered to you to further your understanding of the "Phantom" cue. Thank you all . JP
I have received a message from an AZ member asking about the "Phantom" name. A few others have questioned the use of a name,so I'am pleased to offer some insite into this project.
When working out details of the cue, all of us read an article about a small company producing a "watch named Phantom" that was cutting edge/latest technology. It was a catchy name, Tim liked it, so we have named a cue. Some of you have questioned this, but like many other cuemakers that have had "Special Editions" and "Anniversery" cues, Tim now has a special edition.
Tim's good friend,Dan Janes, Joss Cues, has used logos and decorations above the wrap, and Tim & Mike also like this position and that is where the logo is placed on each of these cues.
Many of you responding have compared the Phantom to a sneaky pete cue. It is not. It is a custom cue, with hand cut Points,Forearm,Handle, and Butt. Special compound tapers have been used in both cue and shaft construction.
Tim & Mike have always crafted their cues to the upmost in quality. They just decided to build this cue with ,may I say "Cutting Edge" ideas that combined would make in their opinion, a fantastic hitting cue,testing their knowledge and skill. They always offer all of this knowledge to their customers, who in turn choose how their cue is to be constructed,but this cue has their personal desired construction details,"their dream hitter",offered to the public.
Last, many of you have mentioned cost. Tim & Mike base their pricing on the cost of materials,labor costs, and overhead like all businesses. This cue may be in a price range not comfortable for all, but those who reach this level,will own the best.
These comments are offered to you to further your understanding of the "Phantom" cue. Thank you all . JP
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My personal opinion is this will be one of those situations where the cue buying public will decide the success and eventual fate of the new Phantom entry. When they start getting into the hands of players, their feedback will ultimately decide whether or not the cue is worth the $2100 list price. If there is a waiting list to get one, the price might go even higher. If they wind up for sale quickly in the secondary market, the price will go lower. Supply and demand will determine the product's success. No matter what happens, there will still always be proponents of each position, some claiming that it is way too expensive and others that you are getting a special cue from one of the best cuemakers living today.
Good luck to you, Jon-
Good luck to you, Jon-
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pharaoh68
Banned
Jon P. Nusbaum said:
I would be careful before making a statement like this. Other cuemakers put out special edition cues. This is true. However most of these cuemakers wind up making that cue special, NOT just a solid playing cue. They put some sort of design flair into it. THey make it uniquely beautiful showcasing thier ability to design, to bring that design to fruition, and make a cue that still plays as well as all their others. This cue however, is stripped to the bones and relatively unattractive.
Jon P. Nusbaum said:
Why the cost then? If its just the tapers, where is the extra cost in that? Otherwise, were' looking at a 4 point, plain jane with no veneers and two very basic woods. Tack on $200 for a leather wrap but how does a few taper adjustments add up more than $2,000???
Jon P. Nusbaum said:
Again, if the only difference here is that this cue is designed and built with what Tim and Mike perceive to be the perfect specs and perfect taper, then what kind of specs are they using on the rest of their cues?? You are implying that there are two sets of standards in the Scruggs shop. The first is for any cuebuyer out there. There get quality. The second is for those willing to shell out extra money and those people get extra special quality? Doesn't sound too hot to me.
Jon P. Nusbaum said:
What materials?? Its ebony and maple. Again, charge a little more for the lizard wrap but unless this thing is cored with gold, this price is way too high.
Tim Scruggs "Phantom"
Pharaoh; You seem to be taking Tim's new cue to much to heart. I'am just trying to answer questions that have been asked here,private messages, and by phone. I have made all details as plainly understandable as possible.
Just as there are hundreds of variations of automobiles to chose from,there are also many choices of cues you can buy,in many price ranges.
I presume you will not be ordering a "Phantom" for your collection.
JP
Pharaoh; You seem to be taking Tim's new cue to much to heart. I'am just trying to answer questions that have been asked here,private messages, and by phone. I have made all details as plainly understandable as possible.
Just as there are hundreds of variations of automobiles to chose from,there are also many choices of cues you can buy,in many price ranges.
I presume you will not be ordering a "Phantom" for your collection.
JP