The Stroke (time for a debate)

[vapoolplayer]

Follow-through does allow you to have more power: the more room you have to follow through, the more physical length you have at your disposal to accelerate the cue in a smooth, controlled fashion. \.

that depends on your definition of follow thru. most define it as after the cue ball has left the tip.

what you are describing is bridge length.

VAP

 

[vapoolplayer]

VAP,

Don't you think that your practice strokes should be the same speed as the final (delivery) stroke?

no, i don't. i can't think of anyone who does this. thorsten for example has a slow methodical back stroke. then you have guys like charlie williams that have a fast and loose back stroke.

they both do the same thing everytime, then deliver whatever speed final stroke is neccesary.

i think that it would be too inconsistent, you would have to have a fast back stroke for power shots, and a slow back stroke for touch shots if you were trying to have the same speed practice stroke as the final stroke.

thanks

VAP

 

[Jon]

VAP,

I understand perfectly for starters... BUT (you had to know it was coming...)
Supposed you have a soft touch shot that on a scale of 1-10 was a 2, and all of your practice strokes are a 5. IMO practice strokes build a (temporary) muscle memory for the shot ahead, and if you have built a muscle memory for a 5 stroke, and then try to deliver a 2, your arm/stroke wouldn't be prepared for it.

Same goes for using a "5" practice stroke on a power shot that would be delivered with an 8-10 stroke. I don't think that your arm/stroke would be prepared for it.

I guess what i am getting at, is that if you have "visualized" the shot; you must have "visualized" the final stroke, and if your practice strokes aren't what you "visualized", then what good was the "visualization"?

In the future, if anybody asks you if you know of anybody who's practice strokes are the same speed as their final stroke, you think of me .

Thanks,

Jon

 

[vapoolplayer]

VAP,

I understand perfectly for starters... BUT (you had to know it was coming...)
Supposed you have a soft touch shot that on a scale of 1-10 was a 2, and all of your practice strokes are a 5. IMO practice strokes build a (temporary) muscle memory for the shot ahead, and if you have built a muscle memory for a 5 stroke, and then try to deliver a 2, your arm/stroke wouldn't be prepared for it.

Same goes for using a "5" practice stroke on a power shot that would be delivered with an 8-10 stroke. I don't think that your arm/stroke would be prepared for it.

I guess what i am getting at, is that if you have "visualized" the shot; you must have "visualized" the final stroke, and if your practice strokes aren't what you "visualized", then what good was the "visualization"?

In the future, if anybody asks you if you know of anybody who's practice strokes are the same speed as their final stroke, you think of me .

Thanks,

Jon

the only stroke i can think of that alot of players do this for is the break, because they are hitting it so hard, they use a very fast and loose warmup stroke compared to their normal routine.

so what you are saying is that one minute your warmup is slow and methodical, and the next its much faster??? depending on the shot???

i guess if you do that all the time for each shot, that could be considered consistent, it might work for you, but i think you will find yourself in the minority on that one.

again, for the most part, i think the warmup strokes should be the same for every shot.........but there are certain exemptions like anything of course.

different strokes for different folks really hits home on this thread.

thanks

VAP

 

[JoeyInCali]

I'll use Kim Davenport as an example.
His first few strokes are long and fast so he could get the natural swing of his arm lined up right then he slows the stroke down ( really slow ), hesitates then shoots.
Buddy Hall is the same way.

 

[LastTwo]

For those of you who are working on improving your stroke, read Max Eberle's article entitled "Threading the Needle" located in the articles section of this website. Max has a very powerful stroke and what he describes says it best. Keep in mind that if your stance, bridge, and cue alignment are off what Max describes won't work, much less any aiming system or pausing of the stroke. Perfect the basics first and then work on your stroke IMO. You can't have a good stroke without the others.

 

[Cane]

whitewolf, I know a retired road player out of Texas that takes absolutely no warmup strokes whatsoever. Puts the ball dead in the back of the pocket. I tried it... just didn't work for me, but there are a lot of top notch players out there that it does work for. Personally, I'm two slow warmup strokes, slow back, a pause at the back and fire. Warm up strokes are the same speed on every shot.

Later,
Bob

 

[pete lafond]

again, for the most part, i think the warmup strokes should be the same for every shot.........but there are certain exemptions like anything of course.

different strokes for different folks really hits home on this thread.

thanks

VAP

I think you are right. My warm up strokes are the same no matter what speed I intend on the shot. The only difference is my break, but then again in my break I also have an entirely different stance too.

 

[JohnnyP]

...Speaking of one-stroking the ball, that is pretty much Grady Mathews style....

Do you mean one practice stroke, then pull the trigger on the next one? Or does he just line up and get the shot off with no practice strokes?

 

[woody_968]

you would have to have a fast back stroke for power shots, and a slow back stroke for touch shots if you were trying to have the same speed practice stroke as the final stroke.

thanks

VAP

Why would you have to have a faster backstroke for power shots? You dont hit the ball with your backstroke

When throwing a ball do you take it back faster to throw it harder?

 

[Travis Bickle]

I haven't seen anybody else comment on this ... with the limited WPC viewing I was able to squeeze in between schedule and Web woes, I thought Foldes had a super-clean stroke, at least in the match against Alex.

It was like in baseball when they say the ball seems to jump off a guy's bat or he has a "live arm." I didn't see any excess movement in his strokes, even while breaking, but I thought the ball was just exploding off his stick.

Also liked Kuo's break, the way that wing ball was going center pocket every time as he was running away from Rodney. Unfortunately, I didn't get to see Wu!

Anyway, that's the kind of stroke I'd love to have ... tonight, in fact, I was visualizing (and trying to feel in my hands and arm) the way Foldes was hitting them and I felt like my game took a step or two forward.

 

[zeeder]

When throwing a ball do you take it back faster to throw it harder?

They do in fast pitch softball!

 

[LastTwo]

Why would you have to have a faster backstroke for power shots? You dont hit the ball with your backstroke

When throwing a ball do you take it back faster to throw it harder?

You can't make that comparison, because when you are throwing a ball such as a baseball you have alot of room to fully extend your arm before you throw the ball, same thing with golf, you take a HUGE backstroke with your club and you have lots of room to do it. In pool your backstroke can only be as long as your bridge, so learning to generate speed without the full extention of the arm is based more on timing. Some players have fast backstrokes, some have slow. Whatever works and as long as you are consistent then it's no problem.

 

[vapoolplayer]

Why would you have to have a faster backstroke for power shots? You dont hit the ball with your backstroke

When throwing a ball do you take it back faster to throw it harder?

i don't do this. i was asked big jon if this is what he does, since he said he uses the same speed practice strokes as he does the final stroke.

personally i use about the same speed practice stroke for all shots.

VAP

 

[bruin70]

VAP,

Don't you think that your practice strokes should be the same speed as the final (delivery) stroke?

i can certainly understand your point, big, and it would be ideal for the practice stroke to be the same as the final stroke.....you are trying to acheive a consistant rhythm. artists, for instance, mix their color on their palette with pretty much the same stroke as they intend to apply the paint onto canvas.

i DO think, even with players as distinctive as charlie williams, that you'll see a different approach to the shot
SOMEWHERE, i don't know where, but somewhere in his practice stroke. i think for instance if you got cw in a 14.1 game, his practice stroke would be noticeably "calmer"

 

[Egg McDogit]

lol...I've been told my practice strokes, even on soft shots, look like charlie williams' practice strokes for his break.

i DO think, even with players as distinctive as charlie williams, that you'll see a different approach to the shot
SOMEWHERE, i don't know where, but somewhere in his practice stroke. i think for instance if you got cw in a 14.1 game, his practice stroke would be noticeably "calmer"

 

[ceebee]

IMO power comes from hitting the cueball where you intended with speed..... Follow thru is simply the left over forward momentum of your stroke.

I believe a player should be accelerating through the shot (even when shooting a short slow shot) to help maintain the directional flow of the cue. Allowing the cue to continue to a natural finish & freezing has been my stroke for 40 plus years. I admit there are times when this stroke cannot be employed, but it is a small percentage.

My practice strokes are for 2 reasons. One reason is obviously to check my stroking aim. The second reason is to develop a feel for the power required to make the ball & obtain position on the next ball.

The address is exceptionally critical on long shots & power shots too. The longer shots & power shots require a lot more precision in your address, so that your are aligned properly for a straight stroke.