The think 14.1 is hurting my overall game

The_JV

Local_Pro
I think 14.1 is hurting my overall game

I've been trying to develop my 14.1 skills for the passed couple of weeks, and seem to have fallen into a bit of a rut.

Prior to giving a honest hoot about 14.1, I would have considered myself a well above average player across the board. However in an effort to "think" straight pool, manipulating clusters, playing carom shape, throwing shots that wouldn't go otherwise... yada yada yada, I find my stroke has gone to hell.

It should be said, that I haven't played anything but straight pool for the last couple of weeks, so my mind hasn't had to switch gears into rotation and/or 8 ball style of play.

I was just curious if anyone else who really didn't play straight pool initially found a drop in proficiency outside of the little ticky tack types of shots that are frequent in 14.1.
 
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sjm

Sweating it at Derby City
Silver Member
Your experience is not unusual, but some of the greatest ever in the nine ball era used 14.1 as their primary practice game to tone down their stroke, and felt that 14.1 helped them with their problem solving skills, cluster management and touch/finesse, all of which translated well to nine ball. Two such players are BCA Hall of Famers Mika Immonen and Jeanette Lee.

Why not switch to 80% nine ball and 20% straight pool as an experiment and see how it goes.
 
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sparkle84

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I've been trying to develop my 14.1 skills for the passed couple of weeks, and seem to have fallen into a bit of a rut.

Prior to giving a honest hoot about 14.1, I would have considered myself a well above average player across the board. However in an effort to "think" straight pool, manipulating clusters, playing carom shape, throwing shots that wouldn't go otherwise... yada yada yada, I find my stroke has gone to hell.

It should be said, that I haven't played anything but straight pool for the last couple of weeks, so my mind hasn't had to switch gears into rotation and/or 8 ball style of play.

I was just curious if anyone else who really didn't play straight pool initially found a drop in proficiency outside of the little ticky tack types of shots that are frequent in 14.1.

Couple points here. Stu pointed out a few benefits but one he didn't mention is more precise position play and also achieving more "correct" angles. You're a good enough player to know what I mean about angles.
You can be on the right side of the ball but still have a bad angle. Precise position lends itself towards achieving perfect angles which translates into running out a higher percentage of the time.
If you continue playing 14.1 your position and angle management will improve and performance in all games will rise.
I've watched some of your ghost videos and there've been quite a few instances where you had to do something heroic to get out. Play enough straight pool and those situations will occur way less often.
I assume "drop in proficiency" means you're missing long +/or harder shots that you seldom miss in 9ball. That's probably due more to a bit of loss of focus because of having to do more thinking than it is your stroke.
That should straighten itself out. You're having to do a lot of thinking which is way less necessary in rotation.
**Not sure what you mean by "rotation and/or 8 ball style of play" as 8ball and 14.1 are very similar to each other.
 

mikemosconi

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
All very good advice here for you- I END all of my 14.1 practice sessions with several racks of 9 ball- just to air out my stroke for half hour or so - I find it really helps to balance out your approach to both forms of play.

Staying with 14.1 UNTIL your position play eventually rises several notches will definitely make every form of pocket billiards easier to manage- just because the game is all about cue ball control.
 

The_JV

Local_Pro
Thanks all for the advice...

I really don't get any satisfaction by running a rack of 8/9/10 ball. If I have a clear opening shot I expect to get out, so really the only goal these days is to put packs together against the ghost. Which of course boils down to the break and zero safety play. My point is, it's boring.

I've transitioned to solo 14.1 just for the spice of something different. That and I'm well aware that the game more frequently puts you in complicated situations that you only run across in other games once in a blue moon.

I've watched some of your ghost videos and there've been quite a few instances where you had to do something heroic to get out. Play enough straight pool and those situations will occur way less often.
I assume "drop in proficiency" means you're missing long +/or harder shots that you seldom miss in 9ball. That's probably due more to a bit of loss of focus because of having to do more thinking than it is your stroke.

I have the memory of a fruit fly, so I'd have to watch those videos myself to determine the heroic circumstances you commenting on...lol. Although I use the analogy frequently as well, I think the classification is subjective. I will say that when playing the ghost nearly all the hero shots would normally call for safety play. Which obviously is a loss of game, so.., not an option. All that said, I know what you're getting at.

I've spent some time rolling this over in my mind, and I think what it is, are my "default settings" when full stroking standard shots.

Case in point...: Normal half ball cut into the corner. All things being equal, I would 99% of the time play with a hair of draw and equal outside. I could of course do whatever I needed to with the CB, but again I'm talking about "default settings". Now that I've been playing 14.1 and my focus has switched to CB control after colliding with clusters, my "new normal" here is to usually hit the CB with nothing but stun and let the natural carom clear the CB from the cluster. ...so now when I go back to say 9 ball and try to hit my full stroke original "default". I'm squirting the CB more than I'm accustomed to, and I end up chunking the OB way too thick...

The above is just one example of what I'm experiencing. Standing back and looking at the situation. It appears to be an obvious and easy fix..., and it is completely. My problem is that this is my "default setting" and isn't something I've had to consciously evaluate for countless years, so it doesn't dawn on me that I could be hitting it bad...lol.

**Not sure what you mean by "rotation and/or 8 ball style of play" as 8ball and 14.1 are very similar to each other.

Yes and no... Ya there's some minor cluster management in 8 ball, and the shape play is similar. I'm actually fairly strong 8 ball player. But to point out what we all know. 8 ball is a single rack game, so there's zero focus on manipulating the current table to control the outcome of the next rack. While I play 14.1 I'm looking to play shape to get on balls so the carom off of those will develop break balls for later on. Again this is obvious stuff for the 14.1 crowd, but these series of shots aren't something you do in the other games, and generally are all about spin with extremely light touch.

Sure in 8 ball you play shape to play caroms to break clusters, but you're not trying to play the preceding shape to push the cluster breaks into specific locations for rack starting break shots.
 
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Poolmanis

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I think problem you feel, is probably that your focus get divided because no need to run balls in rotation.
Try get game plan and follow it. That needs to a lot of shooting to get it. Then your 14.1 will jump up and other games follow.

Even bad plan is better than not plan at all.
 

evergruven

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
All very good advice here for you- I END all of my 14.1 practice sessions with several racks of 9 ball- just to air out my stroke for half hour or so - I find it really helps to balance out your approach to both forms of play.

Staying with 14.1 UNTIL your position play eventually rises several notches will definitely make every form of pocket billiards easier to manage- just because the game is all about cue ball control.

dig this.. I also follow 14.1 with rotation and enjoy that
honestly, shooting 9 after working my brain at straights feels like a treat :)
I'm no prize player tho
I do imagine that even a good player
might not see benefits of switching things up right away
stick with it..see what happens over time?
 

alstl

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I've been trying to develop my 14.1 skills for the passed couple of weeks, and seem to have fallen into a bit of a rut.

Prior to giving a honest hoot about 14.1, I would have considered myself a well above average player across the board. However in an effort to "think" straight pool, manipulating clusters, playing carom shape, throwing shots that wouldn't go otherwise... yada yada yada, I find my stroke has gone to hell.

It should be said, that I haven't played anything but straight pool for the last couple of weeks, so my mind hasn't had to switch gears into rotation and/or 8 ball style of play.

I was just curious if anyone else who really didn't play straight pool initially found a drop in proficiency outside of the little ticky tack types of shots that are frequent in 14.1.

Try equal offense. Same concept as 14.1 but the balls are more spread out and you can let out your stroke more.

Neither of them develop your safety and kicking game needed to play 9 ball or 10 ball at a high level.
 

Samiel

Sea Player
Silver Member
I saw overall improvement after months of straight pool. I will say straight pool is more "work" in general and it can get mentally tiring. I think initially my 9-ball game did go down a bit, but mainly on long, tough shots. Eventually my 9-ball game went up because I played position better. I think practicing all games makes an all-around better player though.
 

The_JV

Local_Pro
Well I changed up my approach and seem to have broken out of my mini slump.

Managed a 55 and 59 this evening. The latter being my personal best (+1). Both runs ended with taking an ill advised / unwarranted risk with 10 open balls left standing.

The difference being my methodology in breaking clusters and setting up break balls. My first few days playing this game, I was a free wheeling potter and had typical new player success. In an attempt to learn the finesse of the game. I tried being more strategic and "ticky tack" as I call it. This really took me out of rhythm when it came time to switch it up and swing at a ball, or a long shot that didn't have the forgiveness extremely short shots provide.

I was chatting about 14.1 at league the other night, and one of my team mates commented on Thorsten Hohmann's style of play. This switched a light bulb on for me, and made me realize I didn't have to play the "ticky tack" style to be a strong 14.1 player.

Sure enough, I opened up my swing/game and we're back in the race.

Kicking myself for not reaching at least the 60's today, but back to back 50's, I have my stroke back, and I didn't give up on the game.

yay me...lol
 
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evergruven

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
Well I changed up my approach and seem to have broken out of my mini slump.

Managed a 55 and 59 this evening. The latter being my personal best (+1). Both runs ended with taking an ill advised / unwarranted risk with 10 open balls left standing.

The difference being my methodology in breaking clusters and setting up break balls. My first few days playing this game, I was a free wheeling potter and had typical new player success. In an attempt to learn the finesse of the game. I tried being more strategic and "ticky tack" as I call it. This really took me out of rhythm when it came time to switch it up and swing at a ball, or a long shot that didn't have the forgiveness extremely short shots provide.

I was chatting about 14.1 at league the other night, and one of my team mates commented on Thorsten Hohmann's style of play. This switched a light bulb on for me, and made me realize I didn't have to play the "ticky tack" style to be a strong 14.1 player.

Sure enough, I opened up my swing/game and we're back in the race.

Kicking myself for not reaching at least the 60's today, but back to back 50's, I have my stroke back, and I didn't give up on the game.

yay me...lol

nice one!
think I've heard john schmidt say he ~freewheels til he gets to ~200 balls
kinda makes sense..straight pool uses up a lotta brain juice (mine, anyway..)
 

sparkle84

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I'm assuming you've watched some of Hohmanns videos. While he's known for hitting a large percentage of BS's very hard that's only one of 15 shots every rack.
What makes him a great player is that he doesn't have "default settings" for shots. He uses whatever stroke is most appropriate for the specific shot and situation.
 

The_JV

Local_Pro
I'm assuming you've watched some of Hohmanns videos. While he's known for hitting a large percentage of BS's very hard that's only one of 15 shots every rack.
What makes him a great player is that he doesn't have "default settings" for shots. He uses whatever stroke is most appropriate for the specific shot and situation.

Yes, and I believe part of my issue was that I created a "default setting" for 14.1 play with soft rolling the large majority of what I was attempting. Thinking this was the right way to play.

Well that approach may still be the "right way". However, I'm finding more success by going back to my 8, 9 ,10 ball style of play which using more pace and shape off rails.

I managed another high 50 today, so I'm doing something right...lol.
 

sparkle84

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Yes, and I believe part of my issue was that I created a "default setting" for 14.1 play with soft rolling the large majority of what I was attempting. Thinking this was the right way to play.

Well that approach may still be the "right way". However, I'm finding more success by going back to my 8, 9 ,10 ball style of play which using more pace and shape off rails.

I managed another high 50 today, so I'm doing something right...lol.

No, neither way alone will get you very far in 14.1. Versatility in both position play and decision making are essential.
 

Danny Harriman

One of the best in 14.1
Silver Member
Yes, and I believe part of my issue was that I created a "default setting" for 14.1 play with soft rolling the large majority of what I was attempting. Thinking this was the right way to play.

Well that approach may still be the "right way". However, I'm finding more success by going back to my 8, 9 ,10 ball style of play which using more pace and shape off rails.

I managed another high 50 today, so I'm doing something right...lol.
a Women has shape, with Pocket Billiards yer playing position dufferin_JV.
 

ChrisinNC

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I think 14.1 is hurting my overall game

I've been trying to develop my 14.1 skills for the passed couple of weeks, and seem to have fallen into a bit of a rut.

Prior to giving a honest hoot about 14.1, I would have considered myself a well above average player across the board. However in an effort to "think" straight pool, manipulating clusters, playing carom shape, throwing shots that wouldn't go otherwise... yada yada yada, I find my stroke has gone to hell.

It should be said, that I haven't played anything but straight pool for the last couple of weeks, so my mind hasn't had to switch gears into rotation and/or 8 ball style of play.

I was just curious if anyone else who really didn't play straight pool initially found a drop in proficiency outside of the little ticky tack types of shots that are frequent in 14.1.
I kind of feel the way you do about one pocket not be beneficial for my nine ball and 14.1 game, since so many one pocket shots are defensive minded.

The only problems I see with practicing 14.1 in terms of how it might detrimentally effect your nine ball game, is that if you’re playing very good 14.1, you are not faced with very many long tough shots which you have to face far more often in nine ball, so your confidence level in those long tough shots may suffer.

Also, you have far less percentage of shots in 14.1 that you have to move the cue ball three or four cushions around the table for shape, which you often have to do in running out a nine ball rack.

however, the benefits of 14.1 practice in my opinion should help you for any other pool game you may play, in terms of the shotmaking and the more exacting planning and position requirements to play good 14.1.
 

The_JV

Local_Pro
I think I have managed to find a middle ground with 14.1 and the other games. Rather than rolling everything, I'm putting more effort to punching shots with more of a "stun/follow or stun/draw". Also taking the opportunity to use a rail if possible. It has hurt my 14.1 performance on the average, but since it's nothing more than a home "practice" game, (until I hit 525 and it switches to an exhibition..lol).

I can say that I have already noticed the benefits of 14.1 play in my rotation games. My confidence in playing combinations within patterns has increase exponentially. ...and I have developed a greater ability to control cluster break outs.
 
All very good advice here for you- I END all of my 14.1 practice sessions with several racks of 9 ball- just to air out my stroke for half hour or so - I find it really helps to balance out your approach to both forms of play.

Staying with 14.1 UNTIL your position play eventually rises several notches will definitely make every form of pocket billiards easier to manage- just because the game is all about cue ball control.
After playing some precision game on my table I often toss all the balls on the table and just start hitting them in. Using any ball as the cue ball and making fun shots. Letting loose. Might try swerves, bank shots, etc....whatever the table offers. It’s good to hit reset on the brain.
 
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